I have a brother...
We used to be in a family business together which had to be closed 15 years ago leading to him and myself becoming bankrupt. He walked away from the business and the family leaving me and my parents (also in the business part time) to deal with the shit-show fall-out. I've not spoken to him in those 15 years.
In the intervening years he's made it very clear in an abusive way that he wanted nothing to do with us (via third parties and texts to my sister). He's rocked up at my parents from time to time when he needed money but hasn't helped care for them in any way and was nowhere to be seen during covid (and he lives in the same village as them). And he's not spent those 15 years rebuilding his life, but playing the benefits system for all it's worth.
Now the shit has hit the fan and his house has finally been repossessed and he and his wife are being hoofed out in 3 weeks time. No idea how he's managed to keep his house that long anyway!
Yesterday he rocked up at my parents looking for somewhere to stay. They live in a big four bed house so could easily house him. But I hit the roof when my dad texted me last night to tell me all this (he doesn't phone due to his hearing) and told them in no uncertain terms that he can rot under a bridge for all I care.
I'm of the opinion that once he's in, he'll never leave. Despite him saying he's on the council urgent list for housing due to his wifes illnesses. I also fear that the council will class his as him housed and not a priority anymore.
It will have financial consequences for my parents too - they took equity release after the business closed so aren't allowed tenants. Having someone else living in the house could also affect their pension benefits too (they solely live of these as private pensions were lost during business close).
My mum is also 88 this year, my dad 84 and I fear for their health, my mum especially as she's not in a great way.
I'm going to visit my mum and dad and discuss it with them but I really fear they are going to let him and his wife stay. And bluntly if they arrive it means me and my sister (and families) will be staying away.
Once he's in your parents house, if he is on any housing list.. he will drop off the bottom of it.
so once he is in he is in.
Only thing you can do is talk to your parents, you have to make them see they have tried and your brother needs to stand on his own feet
Are your parents in full command of their faculties or could they be classed as vulnerable adults?
I’m of the opinion that once he’s in, he’ll never leave. Despite him saying he’s on the council urgent list for housing due to his wifes illnesses. I also fear that the council will class his as him housed and not a priority anymore.
I would guess you are right. Beyond telling your parents how you feel and pointing out to them they are stuck with him if they let him in I do not think there is much you can do really unfortunately unless they are "vulnerable"
Are your parents in full command of their faculties or could they be classed as vulnerable adults?
They still live pretty independently and manage all their own finances. I come in for tech issues and heavy lifting! My dad is fine mentally, my mum is slowly losing the battle with old age with early signs of dementia, but can very very sharp when she's on a good day.
Your parents will do what they like, you can advise them but unless they are deemed incapable of looking after their own affairs (have you a PoA in place?) there's not a fat lot you can do about it. Yes he will take advantage, but then again he clearly needs the support one way or another.
I don't talk to my brother either but he's nothing like as serious a problem. I just leave my mother to get on with him as she chooses.
Whether you refuse to visit is up to you, but it won't help your parents if you cut them off.
Try not to put your parents in the middle, it is their choice so try to be reasonable while discussing the options. You might have to dig deep to support their choice.
I don't think there's anything to do. As a parent part of the deal is to help your kids out no matter what. Them forgiving your brother and helping him out in a hard time is really nothing to do with you
but then again he clearly needs the support one way or another.
...he's had a lifetime of bloody support.
Ask your parents what they want to do, and then support them the best you can to do it in a way that minimises the impact on your and your family and (hopefully) them.
You can't stop this if it's going to happen.
And bluntly if they arrive it means me and my sister (and families) will be staying away
If/when he moves in, it sounds like you should be there more rather than less
Get a Power of Attorney sorted asap if you dont have one already. This should be standard for everyone, but will protect your parents wishes in the future, especially if one already has signs of dementia.
Check what the restriction on tenants actually means - it may not apply to family, but if it does then there is a risk your parents may lose their house - know what the legal agreement actually says.
and good luck - getting parents to see sense with their children is tough (speaking as a parent)
Try not to put your parents in the middle, it is their choice so try to be reasonable while discussing the options. You might have to dig deep to support their choice.
Hmmmm - I am not convinced this is right. Decisions have consequences and support need not be unconditional. I don't think its unreasonable in this sort of situation to tell them that because of the total breakdown in relationship with your brother that if they house the brother you will not be able to visit any more but will still be able to see them away from the brother or chat via text
Families are a funny thing, people seem to forgive all sorts of ills just because of a biological relationship. I don't subscribe to that approach. Life is too short to be dragged down by bad people.
However, in this case, it is your parents choice. The best you can do is advise them. but don't cut them off, they may well feel in an impossible situation and your actions could, inadvertently, make things more difficult for them.
You are worried about your parents, are you worried enough to take the matter out of their hands. Could you do this by offering your brother somewhere to stay or even paying for a month of accommodation? I know it is counter intuitive as you want nothing to do with him, but is protecting your folks a higher priority?
et a Power of Attorney sorted asap if you dont have one already.
This I've been trying to do for the last three years, but they won't do it. They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will 'get round to it one day'. I've printed the forms out and helped fill them in, but it's always ended there.
Families are a funny thing, people seem to forgive all sorts of ills just because of a biological relationship.
It's not bioligical either - all three of us children are adopted and my brother is the eldest has had always needed a lot more attention than me and my sister. It would be diagnosed as something today, but in the 1970s he was just a 'difficult' child.
There's also a massive can of worms going back to childhood that I would rather have been buried with my parents that this may open up. And I'm the level headed one in the family. Once my sister finds out it will explode...
I can't explain how much this would rip our ever decreasing family apart.
Could you do this by offering your brother somewhere to stay or even paying for a month of accommodation?
That is the only thing me and my wife can think off. My parents being traditional oldies have cash around the house and could fund accommodation for a while.
the brother you will not be able to visit any more but will still be able to see them away from the brother or chat via text
I'd not cut them off - I just wouldn't visit and play happy families.
If you're parents are capable of making their own decisions you have to let them do that, even if they are bad decisions. Talk to them, advise them, warn them, sure, but they get to make the decision (and live with the consequences of it)
I think the only sensible plan is to tell your parents what you think, explain how it makes you uncomfortable, and leave it at that...But then you know what they say about the best laid plans.
It does sound to me (and I may very well be sticking my size 9s in where they're not wanted, apologies) that opening up a line of dialogue with your brother is long overdue, and that perhaps; this is the opportunity to explore that?
It does sound to me (and I may very well be sticking my size 9s in where they’re not wanted, apologies) that opening up a line of dialogue with your brother is long overdue, and that perhaps; this is the opportunity to explore that?
I appreciate your point, but it's not happening. We weren't mates in the business and never socialised together. And I could see the writing was on the wall for the business and kept saying we need to reign spending in, batten down the hatches etc. A few weeks later my brother goes out and orders a new Discovery and takes on another £50k on his mortgage for house improvements.
The water has flowed under the bridge and the river has dried up.
Families tend to collude to avoid acknowledging or confronting bad behaviour by family members. This is for all sorts of reasons including guilt, denial, and the wish to avoid the consequences of doing so.
I have family members who do this. It's very frustrating, but I have come to accept that there's little I can do about it. All I can do is concentrate on my relationship with them, which is what I do. I do however have boundaries, and so I will gently pick them up when they start rationalizing their behavior with platitudes.
I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it. Get your fiery sister involved; maybe one of you needs to temporarily move in to stop the rogue brother getting in there. Hopefully he will get offered council accommodation this year, but I bet he'd rather be in the parents' house.
I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it
Yes very likely.
If your parents want to give him a house, there's not a lot you can do about it.
You can't control what your parents do.. you can tell them what you think, but after that , their choice.
But you can be the bigger man here, and if him and his family do move in, then you should certainly not stop visiting.If it makes him uncomfortable, that's his problem. But you stay away, you lose any influence on anything
What a shit situation.
Definitely make your parents fully aware of your views.
Definitely involve your sister now; I doubt she will thank you for any delay.
Consider talking with the equity release company about a possible breach of contract.
Continue pushing parents to set up LPAs; try to prevent brother being nominated as attorney or replacement; look at options to add clause regarding preventing house being sold whilst either parent has mental capacity.
Have parents made a will? If brother etc move in, consider talking with solicitor and ask them to note moving in date as any change to will(s) in favour of brother after that date may result in a legal challenge by you and/or sister when parents die.
I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it
Probably depends a lot on what "equity-release" meant in the initial post
Probably depends a lot on what “equity-release” meant in the initial post
There will be little or no cash left in the end. It's not about money and my brother was effectively written out of the will years ago anyway (left nominal amount so he was considered).
Have you thought about a new patio?
This sounds very familiar..
My parasitic sister in-law has previously lived (with her 3 kids and illegal immigrant boyfriend) in the bungalow at the bottom of her folks garden. big fall out around 10 years ago and she wrecked the place before moving out.
about 18 months ago she got evicted from her rental house and managed to worm her way back into the recently renovated bungalow - rent free. The in-laws want to move/downsize and now cannot get rid of her, or the two feral kids still living with her.
Last i heard is they've agreed to give her £200k to buy a house (pretty much clearing them out of the retirement savings and recent inheritance) just so they can get rid of her.
My wife has let rip at them but they cannot see any wrong in it.
But you can be the bigger man here, and if him and his family do move in, then you should certainly not stop visiting.If it makes him uncomfortable, that’s his problem. But you stay away, you lose any influence on anything
I would say pretty much the opposite. Make it clear to the parents that whilst brother is in the house you will not be visiting at all. You can still see them outside of the house and keep in touch but by doing this you make it clear that this is a serious issue for you. continuing to visit lets them think you are OK with it all.
Surely there are tax implications and all sorts of paperwork involved here, if money is handed over.
please don't stop visiting your parents if this leech moves in, in fact I would pay more visits if he bluffs his way into their home. Consult your sister now. Get your parents to agree to LPA (it's taken my mum years, but she finally consented last year).
Good luck.
I've just come off the phone to CAB...
• It will affect the council waiting list as the council would consider them housed so no longer a priority.
• It will affect my mum and dads council tax as they currently get full council tax relief.
• It will affect their benefits. It's going to be found out as my brother would have to put mum and dad's address down so he could continue to claim his benefits.
...I bloody hate being the sensible ones in the family!
Sister is primed and ready - but I've told her not to get in touch till I see my parents after work. 🙂
They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.
That's all well and good, but when they reach the point at which they don't feel capable it will be too late. Granting PoA is cheap and easy. Taking PoA is expensive and difficult. If they won't agree for their own sake, maybe they'll agree to it for yours?
I agonised over this for ages with my mum, how best to broach it. In the end I told her my partner had set it up for each other and "ooh, I've just had an idea!" She agreed, but sadly passed before we got it all finalised.
My parents being traditional oldies have cash around the house and could fund accommodation for a while.
From what you've said, I rather suspect that they won't have for very long if he moves in.
my brother was effectively written out of the will years ago anyway
And how long before he persuades them to change their wills? They might as well, it's effectively his when he's already living there, right?
They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.
That’s all well and good, but when they reach the point at which they don’t feel capable it will be too late.
They need to think of it like a will. Deciding who to give your money to can only be done before you are dead. It doesn't mean that you have to give all your assets away before you die.
An LPA allows them to decide who they want to take key financial and medical decisions for them when they are unable to do so. It can only be done easily and cheaply before they lose capacity to make decisions. It doesn't mean handing over control right now.
Without an LPA there is massive cost and delay, and their wishes about key things like end of life care and being put in a care home or not, will be made by strangers and professionals, not family or whoever they trust.
Surely it’s time to reconnect with brother. If only to tell him to MTFU and sort his own problems out. Given the age of the parents I assume he’s in his late fifties in which case he’s all the man he’s ever going to be and is not ever going to change.
Tell him to do one for your parents sake.
Tell him if he doesn’t then you’ll be there every day at your parents to make sure he isn’t getting too comfortable and to check that he’s pulling his weight and seeking gainful employment to fund the responsibility for his elderly parents that he’s taking on.
He’s seeking the path of least resistance.
You and your sister have to provide more resistance than he’s comfortable with.
Have you not got a niece you can set on him as well?
Anyway, sounds like you've done the right thing and armed yourself with facts.
Have you not got a niece you can set on him as well?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Families - bloody love them!
They just keeping saying they feel capable of handling things for now and will ‘get round to it one day’.
People are stupid and stubborn, and usually get worse as they age.
That applies to the readers of this thread too. I bet no more than 10% have done their own PoA, probably less than half even have wills.
"I'll do it when it's too late."
I can see this piece-of-work getting in your parents house, living there for free, and then inheriting it.
This was exactly what was running through my head reading the opening post, massive alarm bells there, especially considering that your parents are of advanced age and beginning to get frail.
I don't have much advice to offer but I have seen how people who think the world owes them a living can stoop pretty dam low if there's cash to be made, even when it comes to family.
At least you have your sister on side so you outnumber him. Hope you get this resolved.
Make it clear to the parents that whilst brother is in the house you will not be visiting at all
All that does is hurt the parents.
I've found that "telling people" who are grown adults rarely works as a method of persuasion. Especially if you don't have an ongoing relationship with them.
I've also found that there's little point in pursuing a relationship with someone who isn't interested, family member or otherwise.
There's no point in pushing against a closed door.
Mate, that's sounds like a shitter of a situation. I think Kramer nails it, appreciate it's bloody awful watching the slow moving car crash that is family drama.
But what's the likelihood of any adult in this situation doing a U-turn?
All that does is hurt the parents.
And sends a strong signal that the brother is the issue and that you will not allow this to be swept under the carpet.
Well that was a fun hour and a half but I think I've talked some sense into them. I can see they are very troubled by it though. I'm now compiling a text for them to send making it clear but in a polite way that they they're not in a position to help.
I hear you themuffinman and empathise with you. It’s a shitty situation to be in. I had similar with my brother in law for years. He was given money for a house deposit, had a half decent job. Lost his job, moved back in with parents and rented his house out. As he was on the dole the parents let him live with them cost free (never mind his income from his house). He spent the house money/rent and it ended up getting repossessed. Spent his life sponging of the parents and never working or helping around the house in anyway, (too many other stories I could share). The parents felt it was their duty to help him, blamed themselves for how he was. Unfortunately things turned nasty in later years and he hit his father, got thrown out for a time but moved back in. A few years later his dad passed and it was then the mother in law realised she could not cope but he refused to leave (by now in his 50s). It turned nasty and the mother (in her 80s) had to get a barring order to prevent him from entering the house as there was a fear he may manipulate the mother etc. thankfully we managed to get this all sorted before her dementia prevented her signing things. The brother in law……he ended up homeless for a bit! In sheltered accommodation for a bit. We lost touch but one of his brothers kept the lines of communication open with him (gave him bits of money/cigarettes etc). He passed away last year.
i feel I have not written this very well, just trying to say sometimes there is only so much help you can give someone if they won’t help themselves and not having them in you life is your only option but a parent may feel different towards them (rightly or wrongly), so I know where you are coming from, it’s a shit show. Good luck.
And sends a strong signal that the brother is the issue and that you will not allow this to be swept under the carpet.
And hurt the parents, who are in their 80s. Think about it.
That applies to the readers of this thread too. I bet no more than 10% have done their own PoA, probably less than half even have wills.
Well I'm 40 so it's not a huge concern right now.
Also live in Scotland, can just write what I like in crayon on the back of a Weetabix packet and it's a will.
