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Edit: I do think keeping the schools open this time is potentially counter-productive though. And keeping further and higher education open is mad.
I wonder if the upside is that more kids will spend time in a vaguely controlled environment doing something productive, rather than congregating outside of school during a lockdown bored off their tits.
Not sure which is worse, the self righteous ones who want the lockdown to over as quickly as safely possible by, er, locking down, or the self righteous ones who don't seem to like that idea.
This is entirely the government's fault for ignoring the SAGE advice from 21st September.
You're just presenting a very flawed black/white argument that's every bit as unhelpful.
It is possible to support a lockdown but be able to appreciate different people will have different interpretations and needs. I do feel some of the lockdown fundamentalists come from a place of relative comfort making it easier to adopt that position.
I do feel some of the lockdown fundamentalists come from a place of relative comfort making it easier to adopt that position.
How do you see that? I would much rather do what I want, but the guidance from the PM is stay at home, save lives. Sounds pretty clear to me.
Prisons are full of people who can’t play by the rules of society
Shit happens
Big difference though is that the weather is now very different
Its not 24c and 10hrs of sunshine for the next 2 months like last time
The masses will not want to venture out in their £9.99 kagools fton Sports Direct ad its cold wet and windy
The masses will binge watch towie from the comfort of their dfs sofa
Its only ocd mountain bikers who go out and enjoy getting cold wet and muddy.
I do feel some of the lockdown fundamentalists come from a place of relative comfort making it easier to adopt that position.
It's noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
One might argue some of your reasoning behind this derives from your education. I believe this highlights why is IMO its wrong to disprupt/deny education. All the months and years connect, lead and produce pathways to higher education. Would a disruption in medical students produce a future problem where thousands of would be junior medical staff are either rushed through or simply missed producing a shortage for a few years? Just thinking aloud
Is it shit analogy bingo this morning?
You say clear guidelines then go to compare it to breaking the law. Which are not guidelines. For example, someone could drive from Middlesbrough and park outside my front door to go mtbing next Saturday. No laws would be broken, zero ****s would be given by me but the zealots would be frothing.
It’s noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
I tick the majority of the boxes.
My reason for wanting to follow common sense is that I want my parents to still be alive next year, the NHS to be able to treat people who turn up at hospital with COVID. The NHS to be able to treat people with other health conditions, for doctors not have to make decisions as to who should live and who should die.
I’ve seen the negative impact COVID has had so far. Obviously a lot of people still feel it will not effect them.
Big difference though is that the weather is now very different
Its not 24c and 10hrs of sunshine for the next 2 months like last time
The masses will not want to venture out in their £9.99 kagools fton Sports Direct ad its cold wet and windy
The masses will binge watch towie from the comfort of their dfs sofa
Its only ocd mountain bikers who go out and enjoy getting cold wet and muddy.
I was out on the bike on Thursday in light rain, wind and a balmy 10 degrees and was pleasantly surprised to see how many people were also out. Lots of them were the newbies too, easy to spot as they still had summer gear on but a waterproof jacket over the top. Really good to see some of them that I noticed in the spring struggling to do a lap of the local park are now doing laps with ease and continuing to do so after the weather has turned.
So while the majority may well be tucked up on the sofa or in bed there is a significant minority who are carrying on with their new fitness regimes. It's great to see this happening although it does mean the trails are still busy at times.
It’s noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
Lost my job end of August, stuck in a 1 bed flat and any countryside is a 45 minute ride across Cardiff. Still support lockdowns and trying to follow the rules as best I can.
It’s noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
Not really it’s a very mixed bag who support and don’t support it but there are those who will stretch the rules to fit their lifestyle and **** anyone else.
In my experience over the last 6 months opinions vary. I've worked throughout and spoken to many people from doctors, business men and women, barbers etc etc..(you name it). There definitely isn't just 1 or even 2 general concensus. I would say the majority of people ive spoken to worry more about the effects of lockdowns and restrictions than of the virus though.
As already noted, I'll be traveling as I see fit to go and exercise. We stuck to the original lockdown rules more strictly than anyone else we know. We've been to the pub 4 times since lockdown ffs....it was 4 times a week before! This time round....sorry but **** off. I'll now be a key worker anyway....music career of 15 years has gone to shit, so I'm a delivery driver.
Me and my gf are late 20's/early 30's.....about as low risk as you can get. In the past 4 years, we've sat and watched the general public and their common sense vote Brexit and vote for Boris Johnson. It's clear that the general public massively value self importance over the greater good. Well I tell you what, that's absolutely fine with me now. On my days off from a soul destroying minimum wage job, if I want to drive to go for a day in the mountains then that's just what I'm going to do.
It’s not a lockdown though, just like the last one wasn’t.
Trying to control a virus while schools and universities are still open is like trying to clean your teeth while eating Wotsits.
Most Uni's are residential. So long as the students stay in a Uni bubble it should be easy(ish) to contain.
Indoor schools is just a lost cause and they missed the chance forcing the kids back into classrooms and prohibiting masks just to make it worse.
...if you have lost your job and are shit scared worrying how you might keep your household afloat...im guessing you don't give 2 craps about measures, restrictions and rules...you might actually view them as luxuries. Try not to judge...this is hitting everyone in different ways
It’s noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
Absolute bollox... for a start all the pensioners who have already lost friends, the families of those pensioners.
Just don't be surprised when we are talking about lockdown 3.0
If nothing changes nothing will change and lockdown fatigue such as exhibited here is multiplied by many across the nation mean that lock down 2.0 is going to be a flop. - at least lock down 1 got the numbers uncontrol . But was badly managed from there on in
Or maybe there won’t be a lockdown 3.0. Maybe they will decide on a different approach because let’s face it this one isn’t ****ing working.
5 months or whatever we had before hasn't stopped it, so 1 month going into winter with schools and Uni's open is going to do jack - and then December, the whole country has 3 weeks to go Christmas shopping, so everywhere will be rammed.
I'll be carrying on anyway - working in Worcestershire and Wales, just hope I've got somewhere to stay
Maybe they will decide on a different approach
Say another mass ?*
* Another father Ted referance before the easy offended come out
5 months or whatever we had before hasn’t stopped it,
It wasn’t meant to stop it that was never the plan.
It’s noticeable that the vast majority who support lockdowns and expect everyone else to follow their interpretation of the guidance (rather than the actual law) tend to have secure jobs, spacious houses close to countryside, and are mainly able to work from home.
You are probably right....but.....
It staggers me that we don't have a better sense of collective self preservation. The people in smaller, crowded houses in higher density housing areas with insecure jobs are indeed the ones that find it hardest to comply. But they are also the ones with the most to lose both financially and healthwise. With eyes wide open they should be the ones MOST keen to do what they can to minimise the chance of it getting completely out of control because they have the most to lose. Statistically more likely to die or have their long term health damaged and statistically most likely to find themselves unable to find work in the future. If you were part of a crowd slowly being pushed towards a precipice the ones closest to the edge tend to push back hardest - why not now?
I feel a Chopper Read sketch would be appropriate at this point.
Me and my gf are late 20’s/early 30’s…..about as low risk as you can get. In the past 4 years, we’ve sat and watched the general public and their common sense vote Brexit and vote for Boris Johnson. It’s clear that the general public massively value self importance over the greater good. Well I tell you what, that’s absolutely fine with me now. On my days off from a soul destroying minimum wage job, if I want to drive to go for a day in the mountains then that’s just what I’m going to do
This kind of selfishness is what we are dealing with:
about as low risk as you can get
Its all about you eh? What about the people you're potential infecting during your deliveries and handling of deliveries? Where's your moral sense of responsibility for the people you could potentially infect & may die?
general public massively value self importance
Including you, obvs.
On my days off from a soul destroying minimum wage job
At least you have one.
that’s absolutely fine with me now
Its about you again
if I want
You, You, You, You and You.
The people in smaller, crowded house in higher density housing with insecure jobs are indeed the ones that find it hardest to comply. But they are also the ones with the most to lose both financially and healthwise. With eyes wide open they should be the ones MOST keen to do what they can to minimise the chance of it getting completely out of control because they have the most to lose.
Ah great, blame the poor!! Utter bollocks btw, around here it's mainly the cashed up early retirement crew that seem unable to follow any of the guidance. I'd also argue that they have the most to lose, you like erm....their actual life.
Edit just seen your little tantrum Kryton....haha!! Just wow!
Lockdown blah blah blah the one thing I'm taking from this thread is this line
is like trying to clean your teeth while eating Wotsits.
Ah great, blame the poor!! Utter bollocks btw, around here it’s mainly the cashed up early retirement crew that seem unable to follow any of the guidance. I’d also argue that they have the most to lose, you like erm….their actual life.
This is not about blame - this is about self preservation. I am not blaming you for losing your job in the music industry. Sorry to hear that. But at this point you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Petulance makes you the former and I suspect you are better than that.
And you are right - there are plenty of oldies acting like twunts too. Some will no doubt die but many will toddle on their merry way as financially secure as they always were. On balance I'd rather be them riding this out as a retired type than you with a financial future and career on the edge of disaster. You have plenty more years of shite ahead of you than they have and a shed load less financial security.
Rule #1 applies.
Very few individuals, except maybe some business owners, are in a position where things are genuinely unclear.
Don’t go out except for work, education, essential shopping, exercise or helping someone vulnerable.
If you are out, hands, face, space.
Do not meet up with anyone outside your household/bubble.
I don’t see how anyone can struggle with this. The government have totally **** up communication throughout the pandemic, but too many people have used that as their “what if…” excuse.
Worth posting again for the literate and Tom B.
Edit just seen your little tantrum Kryton….haha!! Just wow!
Tantrum? Oh I forgot your just a kid, grow up matey there's no tantrums here, it took about 30 seconds to analyse your "its all about me" post. With a bit of luck you've about 50-60 years of life left, you might think about having a care for others for one year within which we all need to make a few changes so that they might also have the same.
the cashed up early retirement crew
Aka people mature enough to make sensible decisions rather than 20/30yo's that are so precious they can't miss a piss up down the pub in spite of a deadly virus.
'Matey' I'd have a cursory glance over your last post before insinuating that anyone else might be illiterate.
People, if you start making this into personal attacks I’ll happily hand out breaks.
Aka people mature enough to make sensible decisions rather than 20/30yo’s that are so precious they can’t miss a piss up down the pub in spite of a deadly virus.
Yep that's right....one rule for the Boomers, and **** the people that will have to pay for it.
one rule for the Boomers
I think you'll find the rules apply to all of us.
**** the people that will have to pay for it.
I pay taxes and rely on the state as much as you do, I'll be just as impacted, why is it you think you're so different?
Where I live, people have been going to the pub, including me, but adhering to the rules.
But just to add to the above squabbles - these people range from 20's to 70's, from rich to poor, from uneducated, to very intelligent people.
Sometimes people just make their own choices, regardless of background
2 things
Panic buying underway in local big Tesco as per lockdow. 1 same nonsense with bog roll... Why
.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
I blame the section of society that are currently queuing outside supermarkets panic buying, FOR EVERYTHING!
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. There are some people who get a kick out of following the rules to the tee (they seem to mainly congregate on this forum) but I’d just use common sense – wash hands, don’t cough on old people etc etc
Agree, same as last time, use common sense, but the aim is to get community spread back under control. It's not just old people transmitting the virus.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
Providing care is allowed?
People are daft aren't they. I just popped down to the supermarket to get something for lunch and it was heaving.
If we learnt something from last time it was that the shops didn't run out of food.
we elected a bunch of idiots without the ability to do that. Because we are morons.
Just wanted to re-air this one, as it is a key part of the problem IMHO.
@globalti - sounds hard - hoping it will seem better soon. Moving is horrendously stressful at the best of times so can't imagine what its like for you right now. Is there no way you can move into the new place earlier - even if it means peeing in a portaloo for a few weeks it might help you to see some progress?
I will just comment on the regulations not the rights and wrongs of them or about individual decisions
As s basic principle of British Law, we, as private individual, are allowed to do anything that isn't prohibited. So my reading of the Government edict is that the prohibition on travel is key and takes priority.
The stuff about countryside beaches etc staying open, exercise being allowed is true because they are not prohibited not because they are specifically legislated for as being allowed ( I may be wrong and it may be that the Govt is taking powers to say everything is prohibited apart from a list of allowed things, but that would be a nightmare to draft and enforce - but I'm buggered if I'm going to spend a sunny Sunday reading the regs). What is "allowed" is mentioned in guidance as a way of setting boundaries about what is prohibited and also to try and explain the sort of things that aren't prohibited
I think it's not clear though and I have massive sympathy for everyone who is struggling generally - I am and I live in a leafy outer suburb of Leeds with direct access to the countryside.
TBH I think the Police will take a reasonable view and as long as people aren't taking the piss it will be ok.
My mum (87) has clearly stated she would rather run the risk of being infected and dieing, than sitting alone in a flat for months and beimg lonely. How do you deal with that dilemma
Which is why they haven't specified shielding this time, just told the vulnerable to minimise contact.
People are daft aren’t they. I just popped down to the supermarket to get something for lunch and it was heaving.
If we learnt something from last time it was that the shops didn’t run out of food.
Mrs K has just text in that the car park/road to Sainsbury's has a queue running out onto the local dual carriageway adding 7 mins onto a 5 minute journey taking junior to what's likely his last Rugby training for a bit.
Its all a bit nonsensical.
same as last time, use common sense, but the aim is to get community spread back under control. It’s not just old people transmitting the virus.
Agree. Its all very well being angry and anxious but we need to help each other out of this first whether venting on a forum or not mingling in a Peak District car park helps, just do the right thing, and help others by not taking a "**** the police" attitude to the guidance.
I have an interpretation of the rules that I deem reasonable and I will be following it.