[Closed] Lockdown 2 Guidance - Reasonable Interpretation

The guidance suggests that beaches and countryside are reasonable places to recreate yet does not list travel for exercise or recreation as permissible. It doesn’t say it isn’t either

Eh? So, what's the question?

No mistake.
Deliberately vague, and if it doesn't work then YOU did it wrong.

You should avoid all non-essential travel by private or public transport.

That appears very clear to me

The guidance suggests that beaches and countryside are reasonable places to recreate yet does not list travel for exercise or recreation as permissible.

I live in the countryside and am currently away from home living and working on the edge of a beach - they're presumable reasonable places for recreation if thats where you are and thats the recreational facility available. You can be there and have not travelled there.

I think theres likely to be a lot less of that kind of travel this time round - theres less daylight to make travelling any distance for the purpose of outdoor recreation an attractive proposition. Being lashed by sideways rain all day isn't how most people chose to enjoy their outdoor recreation either (says man who's been lashed by sideways rain for the last two weeks) By the time the lockdown starts that rain will probably have a few hard lumps in it.

Dancing with your partner on windy Tuesdays but in the shadows is still allowed

Seeing as you couldn't travel out of zone three areas I don't see why the spirit of this allows travel outside your local area.

As always rule one applies, any behaviour that uses a Dominic Cummings exemption means you fail it

Clear as mud. Is it the nearest countryside or the one you'd usually visit/exercise in? The peak district is about an hour away, is that okay? Will we see car parks blocked again when the hoardes descend on the honeypots because there's naff all else to do? Without explicit parameters there will be a load more self-appointed covid police telling those who live in less picturesque places to go home and only come back when they can spend money there again.

You should avoid all non-essential travel by private or public transport.

That appears very clear to me

I disagree. Some selected quotes from the guidance.

This means you must not leave or be outside of your home except for specific purposes. These include:

Essential travel includes, but is not limited to

So leaving the house for exercise is essential. Visiting public places is allowed. And essential travel is not limited to the specific items quoted (which doesn't include travel for exercise).

Ergo, travel for exercise and recreation is permitted. If not how would most city dwellers get to the parks, beaches, and countryside?

Either way we have two different interpretations, which is my issue. And because your interpretation is wrong, I hate you. Not really, but my point is that this lack of clarity is inciting discontent.

I think a significant proportion of us....me definitely included, will cite Barnard Castle Eye Test and carry on with outdoor exercise, including driving a few miles to do so, without any feeling of guilt whatsoever.

Lockdown, not lockdown.

This round feels like COVID theatre.

I was first to post on the first lockdown saying it was vague and got shot down as it was apparently very clear yet the ensuing weeks/ months was spent asking am I allowed to do this /that good luck OP.

I'm supposed to be having my bathroom refitted this month (November). So people are ok to come and work in my house, construction, according to the guidance. But I can't go and stay anywhere else as hotels will be closed and I won't be allowed to visit anyone else's house, so where the hell do I pee and shower?

If not how would most city dwellers get to the parks, beaches, and countryside?

Ignoring the fact cities have parks, they don’t as you can exercise from your doorstep.

Zzzzzz here we go again.

Just use your common sense. I appreciate the government seem to be lacking this, but please just do the right thing and stay safe.

We were hoping to move house before Christmas, I’m guessing that is out now? Luckily contracts haven’t been exchanged yet, I’m hoping when the clarification comes out moving will be allowed but I’m not holding my breath.

Was supposed to have my motorbike theory test a week on Monday too, I’ve been putting it off for ages and that’ll be delayed now. Bugger.

Zzzzzz here we go again.

I get that same feeling...

Whatever interpretive loopholes you managed to convince yourself of last time will probably serve you equally well this time.

Otherwise just apply Rule 1... Or don't, it's entirely up to you.

Seeing as you couldn’t travel out of zone three areas I don’t see why the spirit of this allows travel outside your local area.

As always rule one applies, any behaviour that uses a Dominic Cummings exemption means you fail it

Travel outside a tier 3 area was advised against. There's no mention of travel in the actual legislation. I'll continue to follow the actual law or ignore it as I see fit (see riding on footpaths). Advice from this government has absolutely zero impact on my decisions on what to do and I might follow it but it'll be only be because I'd naturally do whatever is suggested anyway.

Leeds is going into tier 3 on Monday, indoor exercise classes are advised against, even the council run leisure centres haven't yet decided if they're going to be running them or not.

I too am supposed to be moving house imminently. It has been imminent since the last lockdown mind... but we now have all the bits of paper lined up I think so it really does look like it is going to happen very soon. No idea if we are going to be able to do so in the next 4 weeks or if it has to be pushed back to December (which we were trying to avoid).

Just when we thought we were on the home run too!!!

Leeds is going into tier 3 on Monday,

Not anymore, All W Yorks is staying tier 2 till Thursday. Meaning the £60m support package we would have got for doing so is now not being given...

I too am supposed to be moving house imminently. It has been imminent since the last lockdown mind… but we now have all the bits of paper lined up I think so it really does look like it is going to happen very soon. No idea if we are going to be able to do so in the next 4 weeks or if it has to be pushed back to December (which we were trying to avoid).

Me too, now 8 months since offer accepted, supposed to go to exchange every week for the last 3, now pencilled in for Friday. Will be pushing for Wednesday. I say pushing, it could be more like this:

I too am supposed to be moving house imminently. It has been imminent since the last lockdown mind… but we now have all the bits of paper lined up I think so it really does look like it is going to happen very soon. No idea if we are going to be able to do so in the next 4 weeks or if it has to be pushed back to December (which we were trying to avoid).

Just when we thought we were on the home run too!!!

Same boat here. We're due to complete in 3 weeks. Looks like it should still be possible if everyone wants it to happen - Jenrick has tweeted that market is still open. Looking at the Welsh lockdown it seemed to more impact estate agent shops and in person viewings rather than the essential services needed to move - surveys, removals etc.

You would hope banks, land registry, councils etc would have better systems in place to handle WFH and office closures that caused so much disruption last time.

Just use your common sense.

And if my common sense varies greatly from yours?

I have been using my common sense for the last 6 months. I have not gone to the office even though it was open, I haven't gone to restaurants even though they were open, I haven't entered anyone else's house even though me and 4 others were allowed to etc,.

If the whole country had my common sense we wouldn't be in another lockdown...

OP - just read all the guidance in full. Last time I didn’t read past non essential travel, as travel to exercise or go out with the family to the beach isn’t essential.

So yes you can travel to a beach, but it still stands that the first bit of guidance was, is it essential.

Idiots are idiots though. Common sense would suggest that the best way to stop COVID spreading is to stay at home in your own household, shouldn’t need laws or guidance.

The fact is data shows the country needs to take action, common sense says do what you can to stop the spread, idiots will not change their behaviour

We made a catastrophic error and embarked on a building project in February, selling our comfortable warm convenient house in Lancashire. The project and living expenses are burning through our savings and house money. The house is twice the size it should be and villagers are hostile. Another newbie has started a feud with some influential locals on the village Watsapp, calling them NIMBYs for dobbing him into the police when they thought he had a visitor staying. Mrs Gti and I are stuck in a mouse-infested smelly bungalow in the village in worsening weather, bored mindless. My car has a fault and the nearest mechanic is an hour away. I can't drive because I'm only sleeping two hours a night and I fall asleep in the car. The builder says we can move in in December. We have booked the removal firm but our possessions are stored in two metal sea containers and I'm ready for everything to be covered in mildew, if we are allowed to move in. There may be no curtains or carpets when we move in. Gtijunior is stressed in student halls four hours away. I am deep into a breakdown and my mind is beginning to do some very weird and worrying things. There is nowhere I can go for some respite so I only see my breakdown worsening. Mirtazapine us helping but not enough. To be honest if I could get off the world tomorrow without harming family and friends I would.

If the whole country had my common sense we wouldn’t be in another lockdown…

Want a medal?

Ah! Bugger it must be tough for you guys who planned to move. It’s sadly essential though I think it was inevitable anyway not because of the lack of common sense but due some poor government decisions, we’re heading towards the main covid thread here so I’ll not go on.

Kerley if we all followed your common sense then we’d still be trying to get rid of all the good we panic bought.

OP they can not write every fine detail.  Travelling to exercise is not really essential if it involves going outside your local area. It’s pretty much that simple.

It’s pretty much that simple.

Except it isn't simple, its deliberately vague. You even had to caveat it with "pretty much" 🙂

There's the things that are allowed, the things that are not allowed, and a big grey area in the middle.

I did a poor job of titling this thread.

My OP is a statement of fury over the vague and unclear guidance. You can argue all you want that's it isn't clear but you're wrong. The very fact there are differing points of view on here demonstrates this.

This lack of clarity engenders arguments, and sets people against one another with judgement and derision.

Why not just have clear statement, like in Ireland. E.g. Travel is permitted for all leaving home reasons within a 10km radius of your home?

Unless you go for a "Severe Lockdown" like we had here in Spain back in mid-March, it must be almost impossible to "write down" rules to cover every possible scenario?

There will always be those people who are just "otherwise". You come across them every day . . . .

My OP is a statement of fury over the vague and unclear guidance. You can argue all you want that’s it isn’t clear but you’re wrong.

Well that’s cleared that up. 😂

Travel is permitted for all leaving home reasons within a 10km radius of your home?

What about those who live 7 miles from work?

I can go to work and be in very close contact with hundreds of students and other staff; but I can’t meet 2 mates outside to mountain bike. My daughter can go to college and be in crowded classrooms and even more crowded wet weather areas, but can’t walk to college with 2 of them or see them out of college. We are either in lock down or we are not.

Rule #1 applies.

Very few individuals, except maybe some business owners, are in a position where things are genuinely unclear.

Don't go out except for work, education, essential shopping, exercise or helping someone vulnerable.

If you are out, hands, face, space.

Do not meet up with anyone outside your household/bubble.

I don't see how anyone can struggle with this. The government have totally ****ed up communication throughout the pandemic, but too many people have used that as their "what if..." excuse.

I’m Dominic Cummings, the rules are for little people.

I don’t see how anyone can struggle with this

Really? Even though some of what you have written is contradictory to what is written here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-national-restrictions-from-5-november#meeting-with-family-and-friends

Rule #1 applies

On this we can agree but it goes both ways

^^^As per Lockdown 1, team righteous are out in force. Insulting those with different a interpretation and view to their own.

This is exactly my point. The vague guidance encites these shitty attitudes.

It's not a lockdown though, just like the last one wasn't.

Trying to control a virus while schools and universities are still open is like trying to clean your teeth while eating Wotsits.

I am partway through a week long holiday in England. Does this mean I have to cut it short ands come home early?

I am reminded that when this all started, Boris buggered off on holibobs for a week rather than staying home to do his job.

globalti - that sounds rough dude.

Don’t go out except for work, education, essential shopping, exercise or helping someone vulnerable.

Apart from they have added the word 'recreation' to the list this time. And the work thing - Scotland has had a work from home rule for weeks but business parks still full of cars in car parks for businesses where folk sit at computers - I think a need/want overhaul is probably needed.

Do not meet up with anyone outside your household/bubble.

Apart from you can. To exercise. One other person. Does that include a coffee from a takeaway afterwards? And, as it's sufficiently unclear where you do the exercise - can you and that person drive together?

If anything has been proved by the last 7 months its that most of us are self absorbed morons with very little thought for welfare beyond our own. We will twist our interpretations wherever possible. Because we are morons. We (actually, you in England) would not be having a second lockdown if we'd been able to exercise a bit more self discipline. But be can't. Because we are morons. We need a government able to wield a big stick and make it clearer and with consequences. But we elected a bunch of idiots without the ability to do that. Because we are morons.

^^^As per Lockdown 1, team righteous are out in force. Insulting those with different a interpretation and view to their own.

Converse view is ...team I'm ok jack because technically I'm.not breaking any rules..... But I'm not really helping the situation either but I'm ok cause I had my fun *

It's not about being ritchous it's about understanding what we are trying to achieve....but when you have a portion of society who believe it's a hoax and another portion who think it's not their problem

It's pissing in the wind.

* C. Father Fintan Stack.

It's clear from before that some personality types need and expect absolute clarity on the rules, while others are more comfortable with a little bit of vagueness.

Neither is "correct", though it should be noted that the public health messaging often allows a little wriggle room so as to remain applicable to everyone.

As before, the important thing is that enough people comply with the broad thrust of the restrictions. It worked then so it should work now, touch wood.

I am no fan of this government (putting it mildly, they have got blood on their hands already), but I think they've got it right this time.

I would be amazed if people who are moving house have to pause that process.

Edit: I do think keeping the schools open this time is potentially counter-productive though. And keeping further and higher education open is mad.

Sorry to read all that Globalti. Mental health has not been focused on enough through this pandemic.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much. There are some people who get a kick out of following the rules to the tee (they seem to mainly congregate on this forum) but I’d just use common sense - wash hands, don’t cough on old people etc etc

There are some people who get a kick out of following the rules to the tee (they seem to mainly congregate on this forum)

I think it would be more accurate (but less inflammatory, so you probably won't be interested) to say some people find it disheartening to observe others finding loopholes or blatantly disregarding measuring for their own benefit thus making all the suffering for naught.