Local bike 'park' doubles price for ebikes

I’ve never been so cant really comment on what they offer but as an eBike owner I can certainly see the logic in charging me a premium.

Does make a b1ke membership look good value though

Having never been there is hard to say whether it's value for money or not.

If it's a private enterprise then you're under no obligation to pay. Take your money (and your ebike) elsewhere.

Could be a green tax.

£2 a week for a normal bike doesn't seem too bad tbh.

I don't know about ebikes, but presumably ebikers can get more laps/runs in, and so cause more trail erosion?

You'll get more runs in on an engine bike so paying more should be expected.

See also higher wear due to the weight.

The ride up price for eBikes has risen steadily at most parks over the last couple of years. I can understand paying more than a normal bike, but double seems a bit much.

Small, fun but poorly maintained, no facilities

It's a bit of a Catch 22 isn't it. If they don't make enough money from subscription fees then they'll never be able to afford to improve the facilities. If the facilities aren't improved then people are less likely to want to invest in the place.

Meanwhile, people are complaining "how hard can it be?" as their little brother built a bike park in their back yard last week.

Sounds oddly familiar, really.

costs apparent (bar insurance)

I'd have thought you could request a copy of their accounts, then you can remove "apparent" as an unknown variable.

See also higher wear due to the weight.

Not necessarily so. What's an ebike, an extra 15kgs?

Do heavy non-eeb riders get charged extra too? Do 60kg racing snakes get a discount?

ebikes I think are usually around 8kg extra, unless you compare a lightweight one to a Privateer, then it's an possibly lighter by 1-2kg

I'm not too far from Bull Track, but I've never been as I usually try and fit all my riding in early so I don't miss too much of the weekend with the kids and they don't open until 10am.

Seems pricey compared to the much bigger BPW at 317 for 11 months (ebike season pass)

How much is a day pass?

Not necessarily so. What’s an ebike, an extra 15kgs?

Don't be silly, a lot of people in this locale think they weight as much as a MX bike and put out as much power.

Do heavy non-eeb riders get charged extra too? Do 60kg racing snakes get a discount?

Back in the real world, I am 115kgs, my ebike 17kgs, its barely noticeable compared to my weight! So yeah I would expect a fatness tax if this was based on weight. I suspect its based in eBikers are richer as its main statistic!

Although if that includes parking, and the trails are OK £150 is still quite cheap!

An ebike is likely to get twice as many runs in as a non e-bike, so it makes sense to me. After all they're a different thing.

Do Privateer non-eeb owners have to pay the eeb price as well then? 😉

Edit: gah, beaten to it. But it's really about the extra runs innit.

I'd have thought £120 might have been fairer though tbh

It's the power and speed that causes the wear more than the weight.

I'm not the bike park demographic, my steel hard tail ebike conversion with 960ah battery weighs about 25kg as ridden (tools, spares, water etc), which is why I said maybe 15kg extra. I'm larger than the average bear too.

Can't imagine I'd ever own, need or afford a privateer 🤣

Pricing based on extra use though seems fair enough to me.

It’s the power and speed that causes the wear more than the weight.

But in a bike park type scenario that doesn’t really apply, maybe to the uplift tracks a bit.

I don't buy the ebike = more erosion due to weight / power thing.  It only really becomes a thing when you're pedalling up, and no-one at Bull track maintains the push-up, let alone the runs themselves.

I've only just got an ebike, spent 3 seasons riding this on a normal bike.  I nearly didn't renew when it went from 50 to 80 as there seemed to be little progression without taking big risks.

Ebikes definitely let you get more runs in, and if they regularly maintained the trails, this could justify a premium.  but double?

Most of the people defending the price on the facebook group are comparing it to other proper bike parks like Twisted which are maintained, staffed, open all year etc.

Seems bizarre to me.  Not sure I'll even renew with my normal bike at £80

I wouldnt be giving them my custom.

I visit the b1ke bikeparks and do 2 hours worth of riding on my ebike.

Others on motorless bikes stay all day and do a similar amount of runs.

Sounds like the only fair way is pay per run, but obviously not enforceable.

What if you get towed up by an ebike? Split the difference? What a dumb decision.

Is this an insurance increase, like all other insurance that seems to be going up?

My hunch is simply that’s the extra insurance cost

Interesting, does the park also ban/enforce "sessioning" certain sections of trails? If there is a more laps / more wear and tear argument, you need to take into account non-emtb riders who repeatedly session the same bits of tracks without ever riding, say, the lower third of the trail as they think the ride back up is wasted effort. So the emtb "extra wear" argument only really works if everyone is doing full runs, and then yes - the emtb lot will do more.

Is there a van uplift additional fee? Best argument I can see for emtb extra charges is that they won't be paying into the uplift service and additional income that creates.

Based on the above are gravel bikes £50 as they weigh substantially less, have a smaller footprint and most riders will probably walk down the technical sections?

Surcharge for e-bikes seems reasonable to me.

Would my kenevo sl be mid priced due to less power/mass? What if you ride an ebike non-ebike equally split through the season?
Me and my ebike probably come in at just over 90kg fully kitted, so if it's mass that causes the problems maybe a £perkg costing is fairer. Or just put everyone coat up and charge a flat fee

I mean, if you can afford an e-bike, surely you can afford a few extra quid for the bike park fees.

Or just go somewhere else if you can't, plenty of free places around.

Needs some sort of simple formula to include leg output, battery size, amount of batteries, motor watts, fitness, condition of knees, age, weight of bike, weight of rider, size of tyre knobs, rider shralpability, time spent at bikepark plus no doubt some other variables I've missed.

Personally, it's not the sort of park I'd go to on an ebike. The extra charge over a regular bike does seem excessive, which would also put me off. Makes my few £12 visits a year to windhill and £42 parking pass at fod seem a bargain.

E-bikes cost more than normal bikes so you can afford to pay more.

plus they do more damage because of the weight/power

"E-bikes cost more than normal bikes so you can afford to pay more."

Not necessarily they don't.

"plus they do more damage because of the weight/power"

Source?

never been there but maybe he's not overly bothered on E-bikes being there.

From the owners Facebook page where it's been brought up

 We’ve always been about providing a progressive place to ride for the youth. As riding bikes can change lives and that’s our main objective and not many of them have e-bikes

Seems fair enough to me...

I'd imagine they did a rough estimate of the average speed of an average customer riding an ebike and the average speed of the average customer riding a normal bike, and concluded that an ebike will 'on average' go twice as far in the same timescale so charge twice as much.

Seems a bit expensive to me charging nearly double, but the concept that ebikes should pay more because they can go further than a non ebike in the same timescale doesn't seem out of line.

Maybe 50% more for an ebike would be OK?

“plus they do more damage because of the weight/power”

Source?

Basic high school physics, I appreciate that's well above your level of discourse but never mind.

Don’t be silly, a lot of people in this locale think they weight as much as a MX bike and put out as much power.

Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the point where they ceased to be as heavy as an early 00s steel huck bike.

"Basic high school physics, I appreciate that’s well above your level of discourse but never mind."

So no source then. An opinion. Right. Got it.

An ebike having more weight and power than ordinary bike isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact

"An ebike having more weight and power than ordinary bike isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact"

A 23 kg ebike with an 80kg rider v a 17kg bike with an 90kg rider going downhill?

You will have to explain them 'facts'.

I really don't see the problem. They can set the prices they want, you don't have to pay it. Either ride a bike, or ride your ebike somewhere else.

Great private little bike park. If I had something similar local to me I'd happily pay £150 a year.

It’ll cover the cost of keeping a hi-ab on site in case one of you falls off and needs righting again

e-bike should be charged more because it is heavy and can damage the trail more.

A 23 kg ebike with an 80kg rider v a 17kg bike with an 90kg rider going downhill?

You will have to explain them ‘facts’.

E-bike will continue to spin longer innit! On a normal bike the 90kg rider might stop to take a break or simply go home or give up after a period of ride, but with E-bike the person can continue longer and hence put more wear and tear on the track, because now the person can ride longer, innit!

Same goes to EV, they are heavy and damage the road more. Charge them more!

@Aidy: yes, thanks. I am aware of my choices. Not really on here for advice. Just interested to hear everyone's opinion of the pricing.

@d42dom. That comment is pretty funny from Facebook. There is no progression.  Begins with small tables, then the next thing is big gaps with consequences. The 'discussion' on Facebook gets interesting later when the owner calls one of his customers "gay" for asking why there is a price increase.

@funkydunc. I've never really understood the "you spent X, so you can be fleeced for y" argument.

@owenp. Yes people session sections, and no there is no uplift.

To put things into perspective, the trail maintainance I've seen so far in about four years of membership is:

1. Letting a few pre teens use the digger to make up their own runs

2. Occasionally burning / burying features other people have made without asking anyone.

3. Err

4. That's it.

Not really on here for advice. Just interested to hear everyone’s opinion of the pricing.

Feels like you didn't really want opinions unless they agreed with your own.

I've not been for a couple of years but the photos show the place has been almost completely rebuilt since I was there last. So there's definitely maintenance and progression.

You've tried on Facebook and got no luck so came here to try and get people behind you. It's their land. They've chosen to charge more and you don't like it. Just stop going.

I'm not far from the Bull Track, been a few times and met the owner a few times, nice bloke.

I disagree with the view there is no maintenance to the tracks as I have seen maintenance being  carried out and a couple of years back they were changes to the tracks at the top.