There’s been plenty of candidates of late and indeed in the past but can anyone think of a more vile person to hold a cabinet post than Cruella Suella?
The chinless hobgoblin is a special case indeed
How come he isn’t the obvious stand-in choice?
I don't think he's fool enough to do it.
The party isn't going to coalesce round one candidate any time soon so anyone incoming is either going to have to do an unfeasibly good job or have little to lose. Its a short term job at best, at worst, as Truss and kwarteng discovered, it's a very quick and painful death for your career. I think sunak will have his eyes on the crown proper and won't risk 18 months as PM so he can be ostracised and sent to the back benches for the rest of his time in Parliament, even if it does mean as long serving leader of the opposition.
As I see it there's a four choices.
A moderate and fairly unknown like Wallace, give him time to settle in but he'll be made or broken on the cabinet he's forced to take. He's not really known for a particular set of policies though and the risk is to keep everyone in tow he'll have too many masters. On the plus side it'll make starmer look like Mr policy.
An out and out loon like braverman, she'll get support from half the party, with the other half she's starting from zero so she can really only improve in their eyes and she'll hold the true blue voters with no effort. It'll be war footing for the next GE from day 1.
Boris, good forbid, but one thing he somehow managed to do for quite a while was hold the party together. If they can get him on a short lead he could bring them back together. I don't think it'll play so soon after they got rid of him mind.
Gove, it's his last chance at the big chair, he's pissed off both sides so neither is going to feel particularly worse done by, and if it all goes tits up he's not a huge loss to either side in terms of a figurehead. He does also have a rep as actually not being a complete disaster and being able to listen.
If I were a betting man I'd put my last rolo on Gove taking them to the next GE then quietly put out to pasture. That said with this lot it could genuinely be thatcher's corpse.
What worries me is what comes after.
Theres no way she is Buddhist in any sense or understanding of Buddhism.
Yeah Braverman is a Buddhist, she took the House of Commons oath on the Dhammapada, according to the Times of India.
Yeah Braverman is a Buddhist, she took the House of Commons oath on the Dhammapada, according to the Times of India.
BS, just because you say you are, and make an empty oath doesn't mean you are. By that benchmark Jimmy Saville was a christian.
Theres no way she is Buddhist in any sense or understanding of Buddhism
There's plenty of assholes who also happen to be Buddhist in the world. Sri Lanka would be a good place to start looking.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/opinion/buddhists-violence-tolerance.html
Might interest you.
Again, just because you say you are, and make an empty oath doesn’t mean you are.
He’s not really known for a particular set of policies though
I will now always remember Ben Wallace as the man who managed to get huge increases in defence spending ring-fenced at a time when a crisis ridden NHS was given no such assurances, and Russia was proving what little threat they actually pose.
Russia was proving what little threat they actually pose.
Beyond the scope of this thread but we have to assume Russia still has serviceable ICBM's.
The UK, now, again the self exiled poor man of Europe.. We need our nuclear detterant now more than ever.
Again, just because you say you are, and make an empty oath doesn’t mean you are.
Of course it does. I can't challenge Braverman's claim to be a Buddhist anymore than I can challenge her claim to being a Tory.
She apparently attends her Triratna Buddhist Centre and she is clearly a member of the Conservative Party, so she is both a Buddhist and a Tory.
I guess if I was a Triratna Buddhist I could claim that she isn't a good Triratna Buddhist, but I'm not. Likewise if I was a Tory I could claim that she isn't a good Tory, but I'm not.
She hasn't been expelled from either the Triratna Buddhist Community nor the Tory Party, so she remains both a Buddhist and a Tory.
Of course it does. I can’t challenge Braverman’s claim to be a Buddhist anymore than I can challenge her claim to being a Tory.
She apparently attends her Triratna Buddhist Centre and she is clearly a member of the Conservative Party, so she is both a Buddhist and a Tory.
I guess if I was a Triratna Buddhist I could claim that she isn’t a good Triratna Buddhist, but I’m not. Likewise if I was a Tory I could claim that she isn’t a good Tory, but I’m not.
She hasn’t been expelled from either the Triratna Buddhist Community nor the Tory Party, so she remains both a Buddhist and a Tory.
Complete nonsense. By that rationale I'm an Egg plant, and you're a Cantelope.
We need our nuclear detterant now more than ever.
The UK currently has nuclear weapons and the article below reporting the proposed increases in defence spending doesn't appear to mention anything about the need to increase nuclear weapons.
Russia is proving to be a far weaker military power than many had previously believed it to be. Although I don't doubt that Russia and the perceived threat it poses will be used as an excuse to massively increase military spending at a time when vital services, including many life-saving services, are slashed.
By that rationale I’m an Egg plant, and you’re a Cantelope.
You are Christopher Walken AICMFP. 🙂
Complete nonsense.
Well you have a word with the Triratna Buddhist Community and tell them that. Despite not being a Buddhist yourself they might take your word for it that Braverman can't be a Buddhist.
Your'e beloved Corbyn was going to axe the Trident programme, just saying, comrade 🙂
Your’e beloved Corbyn was going to axe the Trident programme, just saying, comrade 🙂
How the **** did that get thrown into the debate?
But for the record Corbyn isn't my beloved and he wasn't going to axe the Trident programme. HTH
How the **** did that get thrown into the debate?
But for the record Corbyn isn’t my beloved and he wasn’t going to axe the Trident programme. HTH
Well, you are trash talking so why not?
You are Christopher Walken AICMFP.
I'm glad someone got the reference 😀
So potentially axing the pension triple lock?
That's interesting.
Going to annoy my sis and bil for a start. Commited Tory voters. Not saying they represent all torys but they are also pro Brexit and frankly racist as hell.
Anyway, getting rid of the triple lock is compete GE suicide is it not?
I'd think so.. Pensioners are the tory core voters?
The clown car that is the conservative party just keeps on generating more sad comedy.
The triple lock benefits pensioners but is paid for by everyone else.
Is that fair, I don't know.
Is it expensive in a world of high inflation? You bet.
It was introduced in the glory days before Brexit, not sure we can afford it now.
Our present Home Secretary and next PM was on form today. A nice line in irony with the ‘Coalition of Chaos’ jibe
Suella said something about the “tofu eating wokerati.”
Yvette Cooper should’ve picked her up on that as well and asked who is this childish person throwing this nonsense about? Can they not put an actual adult in the job who’s going to take it seriously.
That shit should be stamped out every time it’s brought up.
Just watched the clip and have the same option as you..... wasn't particularly impressed with Cooper's response.
Should have just confronted her for coming out with complete nonsense, playground taunting and childishness. If that's all she's got, she should just resign and let the serious politicians talk. These are serious, meaningful issues that are going to (negatively) impact millions and millions of people - and she's spouting PRE-PREPARED right-wing bullshit bingo like she's some redneck US governor on Alex Jones's podcast. The labour party should have been briefed to take the high ground on this stuff, and not get dragged down to this level of discourse.
I don’t agree. The Tories should have the “coalition of chaos” line thrown back in the their face at every opportunity. They have been trading on the idea that even if they don’t share you values, or operate in an honest way, at least they “keep the ship steady” and make the country look like it is “on an even keel”… the events since they took power, and not least this year, show that they are the harbingers of chaos, and they shouldn’t be allowed to claim otherwise unchallenged ever again.
It was introduced in the glory days before Brexit, not sure we can afford it now.
IIRC, it was introduced as a method of reasonably quickly increasing state pension value at a time when pensioners that didn't have any other income were genuinely pretty poverty stricken. Fair enough, but of course as said once you've let that genie out of the lamp, it can't be put back in without loosing a vast amount of votes.
So a sensible move by the Tories, because they don't appear to be getting any votes next election anyway.😁
Food inflation through the roof again in the figures just announced. That matters double to people who rely on benefits (which includes many pensioners).
If this is true I wonder if Johnson even dared to dream that she would screw up as badly as she has.
TBH I don’t think anyone could have dreamed it was going to be quite so stellar and brutally quick.
IMHO they may as well reinstate BJ as they need some one who’s going to do nothing and let them drift towards the next election.
They have got us in a position where they don’t have a scooby doo how to sort.
I think that not windfall taxing was the greatest mistake thou or nationalising and actually getting something (good)for your MMT as opposed to putting it in your mates pockets.
Food inflation through the roof again in the figures just announced
Ive been saying this for a couple of months - Heinz RRP's have gone up as much as 49%, Cadbury by 25%.
On average per week my stock spend has risen by 19% over the last year. The cost of stock is causing more issues for me than any other rise as it's a slow return.
This is directly do do with events at the start of the year, rather than utility costs rising or any thing else. The big ones will be bread and cooking oils in the next few months - Im expecting 100-200% rises.
IMHO they may as well reinstate BJ
He would last approx 5 minutes before exactly the same questions about his honesty, trustworthiness and propriety raised their heads again. His entire cabinet had to resign in order to force him to step down last time. The Tories are divided at least 3 ways, all sides hate each other. Truss was supposed to be the hard right's puppet, Hunt stepping in has them spitting feathers, what's left of the left wing of the Tories hate Truss and Sunak, the Sunak supporters can't stand the left of the part and the far right. Lots of Tory MPs hate their jobs and just want it all to stop so they can step down.
The conservatives don't really exist at the minute in any form other than name only
Too much is being made of Truss coming to power and creating havoc that actually goes back well into Johnson's term and obviously all 12 years of the Tory shitshow. And beyond.
Economic conditions are extremely lagging and all this has been on the radar for years.
Blame the system as much as the managers. Pure luck has kept the status -quo from collapsing.
None of this suprises me and is going to get much worse. The economic reaction to the public's behaviour to this downturn hasn't even taken hold yet.
If Labour come to power they are going to need a seriously impressive vision to make things better. Much different to what they're offering.
The BoE will raise interest rates again probably even more aggressively and it will set more trouble in motion.
Heinz RRP’s have gone up as much as 49%, Cadbury by 25%.
Far fewer beans in the tins too, and Dairy Milk bars are thinner.
Far fewer beans in the tins too, and Dairy Milk bars are thinner.
The price marked packs / tins are the same size / weight, just gone up in cost.
Heinz soup was 1.09 a can now 1.55, cadbury's £1 bars of dairy milk are £1.25
Seeing margins squeeze across all categories where increases haven't happened.
Cleverly, todays human shield,?has just been torn a new one on Radio 4.
He having read back to him all his bullshit quotes from a couple of weeks ago (which now seems like an eternity) about his unequivocal support for Lizzies insane policies, all of which have now been abandoned
Cleverly, todays human shield,?has just been torn a new one on Radio 4.
The bit about “listening” was pretty damn good. No softballing for a change.
Too much is being made of Truss coming to power and creating havoc that actually goes back well into Johnson’s term and obviously all 12 years of the Tory shitshow.
No one will disagree that she “inherited” a shit show from the “previous” Tory governments that she was a minister in… but anyone arguing that she hasn’t made things unnecessarily worse since getting the top job would, and should, be laughed out of the conversation.
Blame the system as much as the managers.
I blame the Tories. And wouldn’t call them managers. Or say that they are managing.
Blame the system as much as the managers.
Maybe I'm simplifying this outlook but any other line of business it's absolutely the job of senior management to manage and mitigate systemic shortcomings. Absolutely not, make them worse.
IMHO they may as well reinstate BJ as they need some one who’s going to do nothing and let them drift towards the next election.
And the party members still seem to view Johnson as someone they would want back as PM according to a YouGov poll.
Words fail me. The quicker this party totally disappears the better.
Cleverly, todays human shield
Just heard a clip of him on R2.
"10.1% is not as bad as it could have been."
"It's in the range we expected."
Oh, good.
Blame the system as much as the managers.
There is some truth here. I read an letter in the FT this morning that was largely along the lines of:
For at at least a generation, politics and the way we organise our lives has been dominated by an assumption that it's better when "People Like Us" are in charge. So far that has produced endless wars, chaos in the middle east, a feeble Europe in the face of Russian despotism, and the foreign policy of the west largely ineffective. We've had a banking crisis, stagnant incomes, record personal indebtedness, social media that's uncontrolled and in any other business model would be illegal (gambling, addictive behaviors, eavesdropping, data collection) profiteering by the elites and ruling classes, and political polarisation.
They (the folks nominally in charge) have sold us this for decades now and it very clearly and obviously doesn't work. It's pretty much time for them all to do what they've been telling the rest of us to do, and either shape up, or **** off.
Too much is being made of Truss coming to power and creating havoc that actually goes back well into Johnson’s term and obviously all 12 years of the Tory shitshow
A pretty good appraisal of the Tory party’s rapid journey away from reality into ****ing La-La-land
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1582466343927889920?s=46&t=C1TS5pzdGag8Nmvq8-pR4A
The triple lock benefits pensioners but is paid for by everyone else.
It actually benefits everyone who will make it through to pensionable age. Also, almost 8 million pensioners are now paying income tax.
but any other line of business it’s absolutely the job of senior management to manage and mitigate systemic shortcomings. Absolutely not, make them worse.
It's very rarely anyone's job to make things worse and I doubt more than maybe a handful of people who put her there actually wanted LT to do so. (and if all the muttering about lobbyists shorting the pound etc are to be believed there's a good chance she did make it better for the "major shareholders")
Any other business going through senior management at this rate would be on its way to the wall.
Any other business with the same level of systemic shortcomings would have gone round about 1750.
As it is, we're talking about the death of the Conservative party, not UK plc. Its not really a reasonable comparison for the same reason my current account isn't a good allegory for the economy. Except that it's shrinking, the bank is worried about how they're going to get their money back, they're making more charges then asking why there's less left, that it's paying more but producing less and it's broadly beyond those in charge to increase the incoming as it turns out to be mainly in the hands of people who get well in either event. Maybe it is a good allegory despite all those protestations from dazh and Co.
Can we go back to Braverman for a sec?
Damnit. Gif fail. Dating me: in our house she's a drunk and a ho-wer. Please continue
cadbury’s £1 bars of dairy milk are £1.25
Except that not all that long ago the normal bar of chocolate on the shelf was 200g.
It's now 80something depending on what broken biscuits Mondelez have bulked it out with.
Can we go back to Braverman for a sec?
I bet you one of the tofu-eating wokerati, aren't you?
IMHO they may as well reinstate BJ as they need some one who’s going to do nothing and let them drift towards the next election.
The single greatest obstacle which appears to be stalling Tory MPs from forcing Liz Truss to resign is the realisation that having yet another change of Prime Minister, with yet another set of policies, is going to make the demand for a general election, so that the changes can be put to the people, too difficult to ignore.
If the Tories attempt to rule for the next two years with no mandate and legitimacy for their policies and Prime Minister they can be certain of total wipe-out when the general election eventually comes, if not huge societal unrest during the interim period.
I don't know the last time the UK changed Prime Ministers two or more times without going to the country, an extremely long time ago I would have thought.
The only way I can see the Tories replacing Liz Truss without that sort of pressure to go to the country would be to reinstall Johnson as PM. They could reasonably argue that he has a personal mandate which no one else has so a general election would not be necessary.
Johnson also has the added attraction for the Tories that even at the height of 'partygate' the Labour lead was regularly in single figures and manageable midterm, certainly it was realistic to believe that much could be eventually clawed back. 30 plus percent Labour leads are not in anyway manageable and they offer no realistic possibility of being overcome.
The problem for the Tories with the Johnson option however is that I see no feasible way that he could return so soon. When Johnson made his "hasta la vista" comment at the end of his last PMQs I don't doubt that he envisaged a Liz Truss premiership resulting in the Tories losing the next general election and him returning to triumphantly to win the following one.
He could not have envisaged that Truss would screw up so quickly, no one could have.
IMO it really only leaves the Tories the option of replacing Truss with someone with the least amount of enemies and least public profile, such as Penny Mordaunt, and hope that it will minimise their losses in a general election, it undoubtedly would imo. They can then focus on a more permanent leader when in opposition.
I bet you one of the tofu-eating wokerati, aren’t you?
When I saw that clip of Cruella the first thing it reminded me of was one of your rants. 😀
When I saw that clip of Cruella the first thing it reminded me of was one of your rants. 😀
LOL! I thought exactly the same thing!
