Anyway…. We appear to be, somewhat predictably, back here yet again..
You can’t help yourselves, can you?
Is that what you now always do when you feel that you are losing an argument binners?
This thread is about Liz Truss. The suggestion has been made that opposition parties should perhaps challenge the legitimacy of her economic policies and whether she should, like her predecessors, seek a mandate.
Are you suggesting that this thread should only deal with issues concerning Liz Truss that you approve of?
You can’t help yourselves, can you?
Indeed.
Too much ironing.
You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?
I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?
Yes, and Brown bottled calling an election, which probably cost Labour another term.
'Dullards' oh the ironing.
Although I have to say - I am admiring the post-modernist energy of arguing about what somebody hasn't said in a conference speech.
Or is that Brechtian - I finished Uni too many years ago!
Sounds like fun, what thread is that on hels?
From austerity, to brexit to this budget farce the Tories & rw press have been dancing to their tune for years
And not just the press... BBC news and current affairs programmes have been stuffed with people from these "Think Tanks" providing "balance" for years now.
I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
and ol' Gordon would have been eternally grateful if it had been the case
I've figured it out!
Everyone thought Dizzy Liz was some sort of crap Neo-Thatcherite trying to emulate the Iron Lady, crush the plebs and elevate the city boys, but Nope her political model, while still drawn from the 80s, is based on a very different set of goals:
It's "Neo-Brewsterism" and she's trying to put everyone off of politics all together!
None of the Above!
If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.
I suppose if the last decade or so has proven anything it's that he British people do love a good vote. It's just the outcomes we struggle with.
But I'd go a Step further than your proposed reforms: just abolish the Commons and the Lords, give all executive power over to Ant & Dec.
We'd get have a fortnightly national phone in on every major topic facing the nation.
Don't worry we can still have politicians but they'll basically just be light entertainers, given 2 minutes to make a pitch for your phone vote.
They'd make their pitch in front of a Panel made up of Stacy Solomon, the current Monarch, a randomly selected cast member from TOWIE and the most placid Tabby cat available at short notice. Each panellist gets to ask one question of each "Idea haver" and has one veto per-show where they can press a buzzer to cut off someone they just find objectionable for whatever reason...
Ant & Or Dec then have to implement the nation's choices, each failure to do so (from the preceding show) adds 60 seconds to the duration of their hand to hand battle with a Puma... Oh yeah I should have mentioned Ant & Dec have to fight a Puma at the end of every show.
I'm thinking of "Ant & Dec's Constitutional Nightmare!" as a working title (probably sponsored by Tetley's or Hovis)...
1.074
The BBC are still reporting that the pound is rallying... yet it hasn't even "bounced" back to the lows of last Friday. Everyone... talk positive and it'll all be okay...
Yep, you can turn a .0001% increase into a rally by picking the right window to draw the chart. And with most things like this you get ups along with the downs so that's an old old trick. Or "grew for 3 days" or similar. And most of all representing a reversion to the mean as growth.
Re demanding a general election, the point of demanding it isn't to get it. It's to make it absolutely clear that you want it, and to talk about the reasons why it should be happening, and to really nail down Truss's lack of mandate. And maybe most of all to make them refuse, because that looks very different to not just doing it.
ATM apologists can say "neither party wants a general election right now" and by not calling for one, Starmer opens himself up to accusations that he's scared to fight one. Of course this is all spurious nonsense but that's the game sometimes.
Petition to get her out has launched and has already triggered a response from the govt. I know it won't get anywhere but it's interesting to see the public mood show itself in this way.
Yeah, I signed that earlier, futile I know.
Governments response to the petition is from a parallel universe:
This response was given on 20 September 2022
The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations.
Could this be her poll tax moment?
There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery
Could this be her poll tax moment?
There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery
Dunno, Bozza didn't get into office and then immediately accelerate a recession, seemingly on purpose. It is quite something when you make Boris Johnson look like a safe pair of hands...
At this rate she'll be out before she's had a chance to choose the new wallpaper...
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.
Unless sufficient tories vote down the next finance bill or a vote of no confidence which pretty much forces a resignation then there is no way to get rid of her and there is no way the tories will let an early election happen as too many of them will lose their seats.
Of course she is in hiding. She has no answers to the awkward questions that will be asked
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
Indeed you would have thought that photo-op Lizzy would want to be all over the place this week, now she's back on home soil after a swally away.
1 acroos in this mormings Grauniad cryptic
Posh bloke is a Tory bastard? Not unknown (6)
How long does she have to last to get the PM pension?
She's probably just in her office drafting new rules on that.
After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.
My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.
the peoples revolution may change that..... depends how loudly we all tut at the same time
After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.
No, not yet.
But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles...
I think the Navy should name their next submarine HMS Truss
Launched with much fanfare, surfaced a few times, torpedoed the economy and now lurks undetectable...somewhere
Kentish man
Nope. Johnson had a personal popularity that might have won the Tories another election. Truss has not and has so trashed the Tories reputation its highly unlikely that they will win another election for a long time. Short term pain for long term gain.
But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles…
Cameron was probably the most corrupt of them, changed the law around political lobbying in way that specifically allowed him to have his "sponsor" inside government with him, and then to lobby on their behalf even once he'd moved on from government (and parliament). Had the balls to say upfront that the "Lobbying is the next scandal", before working to line his pockets through lobbying. There was a period where perhaps he seemed a reasonable leader for the country, compared to past Tory leaders... but then he got his chance to rule without the LibDems, and we saw the real Tory in full effect. May paved the way for Johnson with all her "Brexit means Brexit" red lines that pushed a Brexit that ruled out a Norway, Switzerland or other close trading relationship with the rest of the continent... working for the ERG & Farage types rather than the mass of people who voted for Brexit (and the rest of us). We're paying the price for her decisions now, and for decades. The rose tinted spectacles are being shared by many of us though... despite their roles in digging this country such a deep hole [ the pairing of utterly corrupt governance and self imposed economic shackles that will be used to excuse/explain our slide into a low regulation low tax (for the rich) low quality of life (if not rich) fractured state ] Johnson and Truss have proven to be worse, because where they have been digging the hole even deeper it has become more obvious to more people that it's getting darker for us.
Short term pain for long term gain.
I hope this is correct.
However, the damage they seem to be doing in the short term is massive and may take a long, long time to fix.
Even with this energy cap there are going to be a lot of businesses struggling and going under this winter.
You can make your point without being insulting binners. 🙂
One thing I am enjoying is my pondering on what is going thru trusses head now that her fantasy has been soundly destoyed the first time it hit reality.
That must hurt.
Cameron was probably the most corrupt of them
I will bet money that in 75-100 years time when kids are studying this part of our history in school , Cameron and May will be bit players that are dull and hard to get excited about and Johnson will be seen as the protagonist, solely because he's the sort of character that is memorable. His blunders are larger than life, his misrule more egregious than others, the fact that he's the only sitting PM to have been charged with a crime will be pub-quiz question for years to come. Cameron may have done the damage, Johnson will carry the rap in popular history.
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
Truss appears to have left the public role of Prime Minister to Kwarteng. It is left to him to make public announcements that have absolutely nothing to do with his brief as Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Firstly he announced that easing of onshore wind farms rules which reasonably would be expected to be in the briefs of either the cabinet ministers responsible for environmental or energy. And more recently he has announced further restrictions on trade unions which is an area that is generally covered in the brief of an employment/work and pensions minister:
The Chancellor of the Exchequer appears to be running the show at the moment. I have no idea why, especially as his department can hardly claim to have too work to get on with.
My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.
That really isn't a problem, the Tory Party simply change the rules concerning how their leader is chosen to suit the circumstances.
Labour does the same - their last few leaders have been chosen under quite different rules.
I noted this morning it’s seems you cannot get a mortgage below 5% from the major lenders who have revised thier mortgage offers. Even Nationwides 5 & 10 years are at the same 5.5% that the 2yr is. The best they have is year 1 at 3.5% then moving to 5.1 on a 2 year which I think is a good indication of where we all think the rates are going.
She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?
My money would be on her being in Ukraine for Boris style photo op.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer appears to be running the show at the moment. I have no idea why, especially as his department can hardly claim to have too work to get on with.
And what a fine job he is doing.
You could have put the missing word in my quote! 😟
it's all a cunning plan, hide and make it look like Keir Starmer is the PM.
In fairness she did explicitly say she'd hit the ground as soon as she became PM.
I do wonder how her mental health is today.
I don't see her as having the psychopath tendencies of many senior tories so the impact of getting the top job, implementing her plans that she has been dreaming of for a decade and finding they are an unmitigated disaster might be quite savage.
Sitting in a corner rocking with a bottle of gin?
In fairness she did explicitly say she’d hit the ground as soon as she became PM.
If she was part of Putin's administration I'd imagine she'd have done just this after an unfortunate 5th floor balcony incident.
