[Closed] Lets talk about Man Utd

Chavball.

Meh.

why open the thread Chunky ? it's hardly a shock it's about football

Apparently 'Relate' have been in touch with Man Utd regarding a sponsorship deal for next season. It seems people can relate to them well after being battered at home week in week out.

Dunno, the right to air ones opinion/feelings?

Next time I'll email you to check it's ok to do so.

I don't really know enough in-depth to have a detailed opinion on this, but I do like it when chickens come home to roost.

Moyes complaining about Ashley Young not being awarded a penalty amused me greatly. Hoist by his own petard. That, gentlemen, is karma.

Off to www.redcafe.net
for you op

It's not the players fault they are getting beaten it's the refs. Moyes says so. I was at the Old Toilet when West Brom beat them 2-1 what a good day out that was

PRETEND you’re Alex Ferguson by retiring then going into work everyday to stare at the bloke who got your old job

Supposedly Fergie lost 8 of his first 28, so Moyes is doing better with 8 of 32.

What annoys me is the fans and pundits declaring he failing because it is the same squad who won the title by 11 points last season. It quite clearly isn't the same squad, they are all a year older and that's significant given the age of players like Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs.

The biggest problem appears to be Fergie's lack of planning for the midfield.

Schadenfreude is so ugly

Why not just support your own team - still at least we will be rid of a lot of plastic fans

OT hard to judge Moyes tbh at the minute but it is certainly not high marks so far. However he has had some bad luck [ injuries], Signings or lack there of - his fault or the club who knows and not enough good players - our midfield has been gash for a few years and Arsenals subs bench is better tbh and most of them need selling
Squad aging, new manager
Not sure its time to write the eulogy but its interesting for sure

Good to see Arsene finally coming good as everyone loves his philosophy.

CaptJon - Member

Supposedly Fergie lost 8 of his first 28, so Moyes is doing better with 8 of 32.

What annoys me is the fans and pundits declaring he failing because it is the same squad who won the title by 11 points last season. It quite clearly isn't the same squad, they are all a year older and that's significant given the age of players like Vidic, Ferdinand and Giggs.

Ferguson never started with a championship winning team, Moyes did.

they may be a year older, however none of this should have come to Moyes as a shock, it's not like he was brought in last minute as an emergency replacement.

He was well aware of the age of Giggs, Vidic etc. However he failed to come up with solutions other than the big haired buffoon.

In simplest terms, Man Utd have been batting above their status of a team for several seasons, the reason is that Ferguson was THAT good a man-manager. Now they've got Moyes, trying new things, new tactics, new training and new man-management, Utd are playing as their squad should.... Which is... average.

It isn't surprising really - replacing someone like Ferguson would be almost impossible at best. Anyway, it happens, lots of teams (Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Liverpool, Man C for example) have had periods of greatness followed by failure - it is impossible to continue winning all the time.

They will bounce back at a point in their future - just look at Man C - it wasn't that long ago they were in the third tier...

What weeksy said.

I can see it getting a lot worse before it gets better. Maybe Rooney or VP putting in an official transfer request.

The club has been run as a cash cow for a family of American parasites, and have massively over-achieved due to having the best manager the country has ever seen. Now he's gone, the cold hard truth has been exposed. He was dependent on a few fantastic, but ageing players, and didn't rebuild. Why? Because he couldn't. 'All the money is gone' as Labour said on leaving office. The Glazers have taken £680m out of the club (so far) to service their debts. And they'll need to keep doing that. I don't think anyone will be coming in in the Transfer window. And I can't see any big signings come the summer either. whatever happens. Theres no way Utd can compete with City or Chelsea in the transfer market. In fact, in reality, probably not with Spurs, or Liverpool any more

Until the Glazers go. Which they won't, I fear its the law of diminishing returns from now on.

Theres nowt Moyes can do about it. Everyone with half a brain knows where the problem lies. And if we finish outside the top four (which we will), then to quote the Kaiser Chiefs: I predict a riot!

Rome wasn't built in a season and we all know how long it took Sir Alex to find the winning combination! Anyone who thought Utd would be sitting pretty at the top is delusional! Like it's already been said, the squad is getting older and the gaps are showing, you could see it starting last season.

Hopefully Utd bring in one or two players in this market but tbh, I won't be too disappointed if they don't, I think the aim should be to build for next season, this season is a case of damage limitation and line up targets for the summer transfer window, hopefully lessons have been learned from the last window!

Theres nowt Moyes can do about it. Everyone with half a brain knows where the problem lies. And if we finish outside the top four (which we will), then to quote the Kaiser Chiefs: I predict a riot!

Not so sure about that... whilst I find the current predicament amusing, Moyes has shown himself to be a very good manager with a very small budget, as well as an excellent ability to find and bring through new talent. I think he'll do the same at Utd... but that's obviously not an instant win.

The fact Everton are doing so well is still down massively to his previous work at Goodison.

The problem is that now those transfer targets will be looking at the state of the club and thinking 'do I want to go there, or would I prefer Liverpool or ManC or Arsenal...'

And without the really big money to tempt them, they won't and the decline will set fast. Unfortunately.

(Leeds fan BTW)

I'd have said Moyes was a good replacement but I can't see what he was thinking bringing Fellaini to the club. He doesn't suit Utd's style of play and Everton are playing better without him. It's no secret but their midfield is gash...there's hardly a world class player in there and compared to Chelsea's, Citeh's, Arsenal's, even Liverpool's (FFS) it's poor. They've allowed the simplest of through balls to cut them in two this season.

I've said on another thread that I'm enjoying the schadenfreude - you can't not when Utd fans have been enjoying your side's dearth of success for twenty odd years - but we've only had half a season. I believe the board will stick with Moyes for the long run, but if he loses the fans and the dressing room, that might all change. It's happened with bigger (patronising :winky:) clubs who joined in the managerial merry go round. Also, while I'm not especially sympathetic, Utd have had some shocking decisions given against them in the last few games. Karma? I dunno...but having had a manager who made referees' lives a misery for years, any calls for sympathy will fall on deaf ears.

My nephews, north London born and bred, are both Utd fans - well, their dad is a Manc to be fair - have never known anything other than success - it was difficult to explain to them that they might be in for a few tough years. They had no comprehension of the concept of not playing in the ECL next season - which is looking a real possibility if they don't pick up soon. Without that money and the Glazers' debt...who knows what would happen.

The fact Everton are doing so well is still down massively to his previous work at Goodison.

Indeed. What he has shown at Everton is that he can build a squad. On a tight budget. Which is why he got the job in the first place. Because thats the reality at Old Trafford now. Financially, we're probably accurately represented by our present league position. But with (rightful) championship winning expectations.

Moyes must know by now that he'll have no money to spend. All revenues generated at Old Trafford will be heading straight into the pockets of the American Leeches

70,000 fans a week and arguably the largest club in the country is a big big attraction to players. Whilst money is also of course... don't forget that many youngsters will find Man Utd synonymous with success and that will attract them to the club.

I do wonder if Utd will can Moyes you know.

In simplest terms, we have no concept at all at the owners thoughts on the manager and his goals/longevity, they've never needed to consider the option of sacking the manager in all their time. They could well be sharpening the axe as we speak.

I'd have said Moyes was a good replacement but I can't see what he was thinking bringing Fellaini to the club.

Last-day-of-the-transfer-window-panic! Same reason Liverpool ended up with Andy Carrol, Bravissimo. he doesn't fit in at OT. Being diplomatic, I'd say he wasn't first choice. Being realistic? 4th choice? 5th? The transfer policy over the summer was an utter shambles. And did I mention the fact… there's no money? 😉

they've never needed to consider the option of sacking the manager in all their time

Indeed, you worded it better than I did. The people who stuck with Fergie through the early tough years are long gone.

Schadenfreude is so ugly

Why not just support your own team

never stopped man utd fans singing 'you've only come to see utd' on their travels.

tough titty, loathesome club, loathesome fans getting what they deserve.

all empires come to an end. villa, blackburn, arsenal, leeds, forest, liverpool, man utd etc, etc .

get over it.

I think Binners & co are probably right - if the owners continue to screw the business there'll be little or no money for signings and even if Moyes tried to sell, the players that are there are mostly worth f'all - except for the couple he'll be desperate to keep

Man Utd are having their worst season in years, are unlikely to qualify for europe are in danger of going into freefall.

Liverpool* are outside title contenders who are a shoo in for europe and look set to be a renewed force in the years to come.

Five points separate them. Half way through the season.

*Not anti-liverpool just the closest comparison.

I feel a bit for Moyes as he's a pretty good manager, but he's not got the experience that is most likely needed for managing such a massive club. Then I can't imagine the board had much choice as no manager with that level of experience would have wanted to take over from SAF.

It will be an interesting transfer window for Man U. If Moyes is given the reported £100M+ to spend then it shows that they are right behind him. If not, then Moyes will most likely get the chop at the end of the season and they will bring in a top manager and give him the money to spend and rebuild the team.

Liverpool* are outside title contenders who are a shoo in for europe

Hardly title contenders...unless you're deluded. Battling for fourth place is about the best they can hope for this season.

Five points separate them. Half way through the season.

Except, normally its around 14 or 15 the other way round, which is why it's looking a lot less rosy for Utd.

It will be an interesting transfer window for Man U. If Moyes is given the reported £100M+ to spend then it shows that they are right behind him. If not, then Moyes will most likely get the chop at the end of the season and they will bring in a top manager and give him the money to spend and rebuild the team.

No matter who is the manager, nobody will be getting anywhere near £100 million to play with.

To see how bad the situation actually is at OT financially, you only need to know one thing. One of the first things Moyes did was to give Nani a new 5 year contract. I think some of knew the writing was on the wall regarding our seasons ambitions, and our place in the world, at that point

The Glazers will sack Moyes if they think they will not get into the top4/CL. In order for the club (business) to meet its debt obligations it needs a good CL run followed by a good premiership position and on the back of both of those strong merchandising sales.

Also, if the valuation of the business changes as a result of the above or losing valuable players (assets) then the interest on payments on the debt will rise when the covenants are renegotiated.

The Glazers have treated MU as a cash cow, banking on SAF bringing success at a low investment cost, much like Wenger has done. But the reality is SAF did not sort out a terrible midfield and even resorted to bringing back Scholes..that spoke volumes....

According to an 'insider' on five live sport last night the board knew that the squad needed rebuilding and Moyes has been given long term commitment to do that. Also they will have as much money as they need £100m+ to rebuild with quality long term players, not quick fix solutions.

not my opinion, on t'radio

They've got no midfield to speak of. Witness the 2nd goal Spurs scored recently, it was Rooney who failed to properly track and defend Lennon's run into the box. But the real question is why was Rooney so far back, someone else should be been doing that, yet they were dawdling around near the halfway line still.

Mind 1st Leeds, then Rangers, now Man U gotta love it 🙂

Didn't Man U try a last minute £80m bid for Bale? Assuming this wasn't a load of bull from Daniel Levy to get RM to stop dragging their heels, then they must have some money to spend. If they can afford to spend £25m on Fellani then they must have plenty.

Problem is, look at players like Jovetic, Lamella, £30 million quid players and likely on £150k a week salaries, your £100m doesn't go very far if you make a mistake...or indeed 2.

£30m on Fellaini in summer and hardly setting the world alight shows that money alone can't buy you the great players. Looking at someone like Coutinho shows that a lower price purchase can make a massive difference without breaking the bank.

I would even argue that Moyes could struggle with this due to having to deal with 'big egos' now too which he hasn't at Everton. Also consider the difference in scouting lists, you're now watching players you've never even considered before, watching a bunch of very good players thinking "how on earth can we get him to play how I want" instead of in the past having the time, patience and ability to MAKE the player into the player he wants. The time no longer exists to give the new boy half a season to bed in, it's either instant results... or nothing.

pictonroad - I'll believe it when I see it. Apparently, according to the gossip, we were in the running to sign Bale in the summer. Yeah, right!

You have to be cynical and wonder who's interests are best served by planting rumours like that in the press

I was only reading the other day (admittedly in the DM) that United had £200m available to spend!

Lets face it they were trying to buy various players pre season at great expense, but no one wanted to come or bids turned down. It was said they were seriously in the frame for bale at £90m but levy wouldn't consider selling to United.

Whatever the facts of the matter, finally Le Prof was given £75m to spend and he only managed to spend £42m of it on the last day....so I don't think its about money any more, its about Clubs having more power to hold their players and lack of talent out there to improve on what you have. There are now so many clubs with the money to buy the best players too....think PSG, City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern and there are more top clubs than top players.

I live in Newcastle. I think I know more Manchester United supporters than Newcastle supporters. Bizarre.

I was listening to one of my City supporting mates, who after going to the Etihad the other week was moaning that the place was now full of southerners

[img] [/img]

😆

Also, if the valuation of the business changes as a result of the above or losing valuable players (assets) then the interest on payments on the debt will rise when the covenants are renegotiated.

I presume you lads haven't been reading the financial results for Utd then?

[url= http://andersred.blogspot.com/ ]Utds moneys[/url]

Read this last post on the Andersred blog - it appears they have gotten away with the financial side of it. There are some savage amounts of cash to come on-stream too with the chevrolet money to appear and whoever it is that wants to sponsor the shirts (Nike in exclusive talks at the mo), it's why MU bought out the DHL training tops contract. Interest is about 20m and in theory there is 80m in the bank (but there is 200m debt that disappeared - worringly).

On the pitch... It's bad at the moment, we have needed a new midfield since hargreaves fell apart and scholes got old. Fletcher was only good every other game (maybe due to his condition) and anderson hasn't come through on the promise he showed in the early days (but is the only play to run at the opposition). We have been reliant on wingers for ages but everyone has sussed keep tony spanish city on his left foot and he's shite, Nani has flashes of genius but they get further and further apart as he's played less and always on the left. Young, the less said about him the better. Giggs - is a winger... 15 years ago and should be in the center 5 years ago against league cup teams.

Thought this season would be bad, but not this bad - the summer was pretty bad off the pitch with gill, fergie and the backroom staff all going at the same time - woodward should keep his gob shut and do some proper business instead of wasteing cash on a panic buy (although fellani should be good enough against teams that would overpower us in the middle). Kagawa - I'd love him to come good, but he drifts in and out of games and isn't impressing atm.

The sponsorship contracts will be dependent on results, especially being in the champions league. With the financial fair play rules enforcement now becoming "hard", it could be a bad time to miss out and need to invest quite heavily in the team.

As a City fan, I still think Utd will qualify for Europe.

(Crowd awaits punchline...)

No really, I do, there is plenty of quality in that side, and provided RVP doesn't stick in a transfer request, plenty of goals. Moyes can and will sort out the defensive frailties, as he did at Everton.

I think they'll batter Sunderland on the return leg, with a good chance to beat us in the League Cup final, and finish 4th.

EDIT: Assuming we don't get nobbled by West Ham tonight, of course.

I don't do football but see this coming up quite often and it made me laugh when I saw it.

I am still struggling to get my head around how the Glaziers pulled off the deal in the first place.

"Hi, I want to buy one of the worlds biggest brands. I am going to have to borrow lots of money to do so. And guess what? I am then going to use your money to pay it all back. Brilliant....and for my next trick....."

I was amazed AF achieved so much with an ok squad in the last couple of season. He milked the squad for all it worth and bowed out and the right time. I am pretty agnostic towards Moyes but hope that he is given a chance.

EDIT: Assuming we don't get nobbled by West Ham tonight, of course.

Having witnessed our "performance" against Forest on Sunday, I find that highly unlikely.

Man U are going to be in that "transitional" period for some time by the looks of things. the trouble is that this has been evident for some time but has been glossed over due to their success on the field.
if you look to see where the real problems/blame lie then it has to fall on the owners and Fergie.
the owners have been screwing the club over right from the start and fergie has allowed it. sure they gave him the money to make the occasional big signing but quite a few of these have turned out to be rather dud (djembe, veron, anderson etc).
fergie has skated over this lack of investment by relying on the backbone of a squad that has been there for over a decade. whenever the subject of money came up he hds been happy to say that the money was available to spend if he wanted but it never got spent, i mean what happened to the ronaldo money? Binners is right when he says that there has not been any money for some time.
i always got the feeling he was happy to tow the party line so long as he was given the freedom to do as he pleased at the club i.e. retain the power and influence he has there
last seasons success came with a very poor squad by their standards but this was aided by the fact that all the other clubs were even poorer. fergie picked the right time to bow out by leaving on a high to keep his legacy intact...but the evidence suggests that he was never given the money to invest on the youth academy or on the squad itself and now moyes has been left with an aging squad of players coming to the end of their careers.
he has a massive job on his hands to rebuild that squad and with very few youth players coming through (the current exception being januzaj).
i cant see them attaining the level of success theyre accustomed to.
which leads me to the conclusion that his appointment was made on the fact that he has demonstrated at everton that he can maintain a club with little or no budget and that is what the owners want now that fergie has gone.
the panic buy of fellaini was a poor exercise to show they have the spending power just to keep the wool pulled over the fans eyes. the reality is the club has been on the slide for a number of years and this has been stayed by the brilliance of fergie as a manager.

i do feel for moyes and the decline of the club but as a liverpool supporter i have to admit i am rather enjoying it!!

Just goes to show that it is money that buys league titles.Football has lost contact with the real world and fans are walking away in large numbers.I was a season ticket holder for many years at West Brom and we were getting bigger crowds playing in the championship.Too much money is ruining the game.