[Closed] Let's Talk About Bullying.

Anyway there you have it, if you are a sad inadequate person who wants to see other forum users banned, then just keep complaining about them - there's a fair chance you'll exceed.

Back, and already hurling insults - good on you Ernie...

ernie_lynch - Member
derekrides - Member
The moderation of this forum is very bizarre.

Apparently if there are enough complaints concerning one forum user, this justifies banning them on a whim - that was the reason which Mark gave me for a extended ban which I recently received. I suspect that it only requires a dozen or so people to persistently complain, out of a forum of several thousands, for this to have an effect- I don't know, but I can't imagine that there's many more than a dozen or so people who really give a monkeys what I think or say.

All of which I guess causes what appears to be rather bizarre moderation decisions. Still, it's not my forum and I don't have to post if I don't want to, so I'm not unduly bothered by it all.

Anyway there you have it, if you are a sad inadequate person who wants to see other forum users banned, then just keep complaining about them - there's a fair chance you'll succeed.

Although interesting enough despite all the "good riddance" comments concerning Elfie on the other thread, and the "why don't you follow him" ones directed at TJ, the two people who by far most STWers on a recent thread said they wanted to meet, was, yes, you've guessed it, TJ and Elfie. And I didn't get the impression that it was because people couldn't stand them.

So the persistent whingers far from having a positive effect on the forum, are likely to have a negative effect by getting rid of popular forum users. Still it's not my forum so I'm not unduly bothered by it.

Well thanks for that, I felt it favoured the existing 'clique' as I managed five bans in the first three months and have noticed lots of them not banned for far less withering remarks than my banal quips.

Not sure why I persist, banning is a very serious punishment on most of the other forums I visit and only resorted to in extreme circumstances so difficult not to take offence when it's occasioned for fairly trivial 'incidents'.

There is an increasing culture of 'being upset' for attention seeking device that is very prevalent here, as is an extraordinary left leaning PC tendency for a world that is supposedly aimed at the ruffty tuffty mtb rider.

Then from what I gather the powers that be aint any of that which makes it all the more perplexing.

see derek it stuff like that, though usually more extreme, that gets you banned.

the other think is what you see as banal quips others view as offensive.

take your views on PC etc and insinuating they are not proper men [ rufty tufty types], some will find this as offensive as you seem to find the guardian reading left.

Given this the mods wont please everyone, not you and not me.
As you note there are other forums if you feel you can express yourself more freely.

S'weird. I'm quite new, but I have been enjoying and quite actively participating in the 'chat' side of things on here. I've not been banned warned or had posts removed at all since being here, but nor have I ONCE felt the need to use the report post button. I think it's that button that is the problem. It causes lots of work for the mods, which probably makes them grumpy, and as they end up exposed to potentially iffy posts more as a result, probably aren't very patient. A much more light touch modding policy would probably be a good idea...

It's a mountain bike forum ffs, not mums net...

That's what I find so perplexing..

Back, and already hurling insults - good on you Ernie...

😀 You think someone who is determined to see another forum user banned is a
'happy confident person' ? !

Why don't you complain about my "insulting" post to the mods zokes eh ?

It's a mountain bike forum ffs, not mums net...

yep, a forum about bikes and shit. people seem to take it far more seriously than is healthy.
it's the internet. it's not real! it's just 1's and 0's

v8 - I think on the whole the modding is fairly light touch. today was a one off from what I have seen on here.

However the modding is inconsistent and capricious and some people get treated differently from others - thats what annoys me.

is there a 'forumaholics annoymous'?
I could suggest some names for the first meeting.
as a purveyor of such addictive substances, perhaps STW Towers are duty-bound to provide funding and biscuits, rather than just cold turkey.

I might start the 'forumobserverholics annoymous' society.

[i]brakes/ bakes - here since August 2003[/i]

thanks TJ Can we hear it just one more time as i am confused still about what annoys you.....ah yes its people having different opinions from you isnt it? like say the mods or those who own the site you visit - obviously this is hypocrisy

TandemJeremy - Member
Coyote
I simply have a different opinion to some on here and some agree with me. Its not hypocrisy its a different opinion.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/diane-abbott-im-surprised-it-has-taken-a-year/page/8#post-3345050

However the modding is inconsistent and capricious and some people get treated differently from others - thats what annoys me.

just like real life then.
but only the 'real' world unfairness that impinges on your 'real' life is worth getting annoyed about. imho

TandemJeremy - Member
v8 - I think on the whole the modding is fairly light touch. today was a one off from what I have seen on here.

However the modding is inconsistent and capricious and some people get treated differently from others - thats what annoys me.

True, you said "fuzzy wuzzies" and nothing happened, I said "slanty eyed" and got the ban and then a bit more because they didn't think they'd given enough the first time...

So in truth you are favoured, clearly there is more being occasioned behind the scenes, this place is not light touch, not in the slightest...

Anyway as the man said their playground their rules, like it or leave..

Or not.

Junkyard - Member

thanks TJ Can we hear it just one more time as i am confused still about what annoys you.....ah yes its people having different opinions from you isnt it? like say the mods or those who own the site you visit - obviously this is hypocrisy

Harsh junkyard - harsh.

I am irked by the inconsistent modding. What Elf got banned for others do not. there are other people I the same position and mark has publicly said they get treated differently

Differnt opinions are fine - no issue with that at all.

Derek - I did get a warning for that. I am suprised you did not see it was posted ironically - poking fun at the attitudes of those who think its acceptable to kill people in far off lands as if their lives are of less value

There is actually a member on here called fuzzywuzzie

you said "fuzzy wuzzies" and nothing happened

For goodness sake. Corporal Jones in Dad's Army says "fuzzy wuzzies" all the time, and that is good ol' family entertainment. Only last week I heard him say it.

The fuzzy wuzzies don't like it up 'em *FACT*

And mine wasn't ironic?

I don't condemn anyone for what they say or type and wouldn't ordinarily report any post, having said that, this place did drive me to do exactly that, so it's catching.. ( I didn't like the Queens head on some obnoxious body thing so reported it, even so I didn't expect the guy to be banned all i wanted was the thing removed which is normal practise) They ban here and ask questions after, instead of simply removing offensive posts then wrist slapping which might be wiser..

I've only used the 'report' function once:
It was one of the Al/TJ yawnathons from a year or so ago when they seemed to both be attempting to flood the forum with personal, infantile arguments.

I think I said something along the lines of 'Can we please have a bit of a break from these two idiots?'
I think we had two days peace before it all started again.

I'd do it again under the same circumstances.

However the modding is inconsistent and capricious and some people get treated differently from others - thats what annoys me.

I am irked by the inconsistent modding.

Wording it slightly differently doesn't make it any more interesting or carry any more weight.

It does make it increasingly friggin irritating though, especially as you choose to conveniently ignore other factors such as accumulation of complaints, history etc etc 🙄

Woody - Member
It does make it increasingly friggin irritating though, especially as you choose to conveniently ignore other factors such as accumulation of complaints, history etc etc

You think someone who is determined to see another forum user banned is a
'happy confident person' ? !

I'm not sure most people care enough about internet fora in general for it to reflect on their 'real' lives in the slightest

I am irked by the inconsistent modding. What Elf got banned for others do not. there are other people I the same position and mark has publicly said they get treated differently

Ultimately, as Mark has said before, there are a minority of users who cause the majority of the headaches for Mark & Co. It's a lot easier just to get rid of those users. Sure, the chat forum may be a bit emptier for a little while but I'm sure discussions will still go on. I'm also pretty sure that for the most part, the cycling forum i.e. why this website exists, will carry on as if nothing had ever happened.

In the grand scheme of things, nothing that matters has happened at all.

Well I don't like to see anyone banned unless they're a total and persistent pain, I can't say I cared for the Elfin fella, but he was easily ignored as are any of you, it is only a forum and it's chatter, but I do miss being able to use the full spectrum of my ironic sword and sarcastic shield with which to combat said irritations

So I don't and remain boring as a result.

I take it elf will be back under a new name at some point anyway? You can't just make him go cold turkey. It'd probably kill him, he obviously lives for his 'argue fixes'.

It's probably about time he had a rest - he's at that point on his mental trajectory where he starts being a bit nasty and a general pain in the arse toward everyone.

Hopefully it might do him a bit of good.

Twit Twoo

Restless night!

I got banned a while back for doing something in a thread on a certain webshite, when I pointed out I hadn't actually done what I was accused of and proved it to the goderators involved.

I was told that I was banned for something else, but was never told what that something else that I was banned for was 😯

I for one think that this website has become far more feral and uncivilised over the past 12 to 18 months and most of the good people that used to be regulars are gone.

As for the self called big [s]bulls[/s]hitters they are a law unto thier own ego's. which is too say gargantuan in thier [s]brain farts[/s] powers.

That said it's a bloody good place to come when you want a full on keyboard warrior bitchout!

As folks gave said, bullying can take many forms. Dominating discourse to the exclusion of others, by only engaging in conversation with certain members to the exclusion of others' quite valid contributions is one form - like 'cool kids' groups at school who laugh at the new kid.

Funny how appropriate that example feels.

The so called 'big-hitters', in my opinion, simply don't see how their domination of threads excludes others.

It's become quite tiresome really and has put me (and I assume others) off the site. Not good for advertising revenues and I suspect one of the reasons for his banning.

Funnily enough, that tedious domination of a thread is again happening here.

If anyones offended by his banning (as a few indicated) I'm sure they'll vote with their feet.

But they won't. The internet is a weird place. He just seemed to argue. How can someone argue THAT much? I assumed he didn't leave his house until I saw pics another poster put up- I was surprised when I saw those.

As folks gave said, bullying can take many forms. Dominating discourse to the exclusion of others, by only engaging in conversation with certain members to the exclusion of others' quite valid contributions is one form - like 'cool kids' groups at school who laugh at the new kid.

Funny how appropriate that example feels.

The so called 'big-hitters', in my opinion, simply don't see how their domination of threads excludes others.

It's become quite tiresome really and has put me (and I assume others) off the site. Not good for advertising revenues and I suspect one of the reasons for his banning.

Funnily enough, that tedious domination of a thread is again happening here

+100000

It really does put you off posting, i for one am sick of finding a potentially interesting thread - where i might learn something - taken over and ruined yet again by the over inflated ego's of the same old posters.
Elfinfred wasn't/isn't some sort of 'warrior against pomposity' as some claim, he was/is an ego driven cretin who's main purpose was to annoy and upset other people.

Think i'll stick to the bike forum...

I do miss being able to use the full spectrum of my ironic sword and sarcastic shield with which to combat said irritations

So I don't and remain boring as a result.

So - are you saying you are boring because we're not interesting enough? ❓

Some peoples bullying is like an iceberg, very mild in here but i have an inbox full of very offensive and threatening stuff since the bannings, i think you can guess who from. The whole story isn't seen here

What tyres for bullying?

Elfinfred wasn't/isn't some sort of 'warrior against pomposity' as some claim, he was/is an ego driven cretin who's main purpose was to annoy and upset other people.

+1

i have an inbox full of very offensive and threatening stuff since the bannings, i think you can guess who from.

I really hope you're joking. If not, what a horrible, offensive little man, and I hope he never comes back here. Those who defend him need to take a long look at themselves.

No joke sadly

Furious Freds!

I was banned once for joking about Somalian pirates. I know who reported me as he was having kittens over it.

i have an inbox full of very offensive and threatening stuff since the bannings, i think you can guess who from.

You are not serious? There is a line. Even the existence of such an email is designed to create anxiety and a degree of distress.

Contact your local Police Force. They can advise you that malicious mail can be a criminal offence.

[b]Pook[/b] +1

There are some here, including a couple who have posted on this thread, who simply shout the same opinion again and again, and don't listen. Elfin was often very funny with his fey mockney insolence, but it is clear he has gone way beyond the pale behind the scenes and in emails to others. He's had a pretty long leash at times.

In the end, this forum isn't here for just you big-hitters. And I include two people who seem aggrieved by this banning, TJ and SBZ. It's Mark's party. If "free speech" seems stifled here, tough. SUMO chaps. And you might, by your posting behaviour, be keeping others from posting, reducing Mark's forum traffic etc etc. Deal with it.

I would entirely exempt Bullheart's story from this however, I was rather disappointed to hear about that. Not good. Sometimes two people can have an entirely different view of a situation, problems arise, things get handled badly. And the situation get worse. As anyone who is married knows...

One thing I really really dislike is value judgements that people are getting "bullied" on forums. It is right up there with Godwin's law as a sign someone has lost an argument or lost it completely when they start saying people are "bullied". Often it means that they don't like the fact that the majority of others posting disagree with them. It is a rather pathetic and totally irrefutable thing to say, and is rarely accurate.

How often in life are the folk crying "bully" actually the bullies themselves but in a more manipulative manner?

what is a big hitter? my head hurts 🙁

Someone who will brow-beat you down. Voice your opinion and you'll be ground down and give up.

what is a big hitter? my head hurts

[b]big hitter[/b]

someone who doesnt appear to have much of a life outside of their online persona and/or spends an inordinate amount of time on said forum

Back on topic and following Stoatsbrothers post, one has to wonder how being largely anonymous one can complain about being bullied, I mean it's not you is it? It's a forum ident you're already hiding behind, how safe do you need to feel?

No-one can stop anyone posting, O.K. posts get ignored, not surprising in a place with as high volume as this and not the easiest 'quote' procedure, so what is being bullied then ? Being Ignored? Sub plots you're excluded from? I rarely see direct attacks or folk vilified (except when they're already banned and can't answer back :lol:)

It's a piece of work of a forum this, all manner of human character failings are here..

Whoa I've just seen a twitter. I've also seen something said about a Mark Alker? Who is he?

I've also seen something said about a Mark Alker? [u]Who is he?[/u]

How often in life are the folk crying "bully" actually the bullies themselves but in a more manipulative manner?

Whoa I've just seen a twitter.

As I said before, it's quite enlightening, isn't it?

+1.

Got to wonder how people can indulge in such behaviour and still find time to ride a bike.

I suspect some people are mourning his passing because they liked having somebody around who had a worse internet problem than themselves.

I don't particularly see the Elf banning anything much to do with bullying as such although there is a pack mentality on here and it does veer towards bullying sometimes.

However I do see it of indicative of an attitude on STW that those who fit in get treated differently.

While I do accept its STW towers playground not a democracy IMO it diminishes the forum to remove dissent from it. Some posters get away with much more than others. I wonder if this is because of the nature of the characters who complain. I think the mods should not just look at the number of complaints but who makes them and the content. Ernie Lynch for example - I find it hard to see why he is one of the most complained about posters and got banned. ( I do understand why elf was) Is it because he challenges people?

There are significant number of posters on here who mock, bait and belittle all the time and who get little sanction. They cause as much if not more strife that the likes of Ernie and Elf but I guess don't get complained about so much - until recently I did not complain much and almost never about "behaviour" 'cos I understand that if I live by the sword I must die by it. However given my recent warnings and banning I have complained about the unpleasant behaviour of the people who belittle, bait and mock people. No obvious effect tho.

Last nights furore was an eyeopener to me the way it exposed the behaviour of some of the mods / stw folk. I think less of them for the way they have behaved. It appears that if you fit in with them you are treated differently from if you don't. Challenging people is not accepted, mocking, belittling and baiting is.

The forum will be a less interesting place when the dissenters are all purged. I think it is a shame.

This is so utterly terminally sad, it truly defies description.

A forum user, can't remember who, once likened this place to your favourite boozer.

As far as I'm aware the landlord is free to bar people from their pub, if they've done something illegal, offended the landlord or for pretty much anything the landlord fancies barring them for.

If enough of the regulars were hacked off with a particular drinker and complained to the landlord the landlord should definitely protect his livelihood and bar that person. If the landlord thinks that person is stopping new people coming into the pub, then again he should ban them.

I don't expect the management to be perfect, quite frankly I don't care if they are.

The forum will be a less interesting place when the dissenters are all purged. I think it is a shame.

Have you seen the abuse aimed at STWMark on Twitter?

I'm sorry TJ but as I read it Elf has not been 'purged' because he is a dissenter nor because he is a freethinker who dares to challenge received thinking: to present the situation in that way is self-aggrandizing and indulgent on your part. You might well be right in that there is no single incident or post that can be identified as crucial here. But that isn't really the point in the context of what appears to many people on here (not just the vocal minority) to be a sustained posting history marked by aggressive and disruptive behaviour.

Given Elf's approach to those who disagreed (dissented?) with him I think his behaviour has everything to do with bullying even if his banning did not.

For what it's worth my politics tends to be in agreement with both his and yours. My sense of how we should conduct ourselves on a public forum most certainly isn't though.

Dissent is one thing, being deliberately disruptive is anoher thing indeed.
Mark has previously stated that givn his history on STW we has on a short leash and if he behaved himself then he could stay, although I think he probably got given the benefit of the doubt too many times.
Personally I found him both annoying and infuriating, although the balance tipped to the latter.
His frequest "wunundred" got up my nose, as did the random picture posting and irrelevant comments when HE decided the thread wasn't interesting enough for him.
He's clearly not an idiot and occasionally could be quite inciteful, but if you didn't agree with his "facts" be prepared to be berated. Its rather saddening that he's resorted to torrents of abuse on e-mail and ****ter though.

If TJ could just get his runout groove sorted......

Mattie - my point simply is that the standards are not applied evenly.

If Elf needs to be banned for that then there are quite a few others who should be as well as their forum behaviour is as disruptive.

If Elf needs to be banned for that then there are quite a few others who should be as well as their forum behaviour is as disruptive.

...but do others share his long history of being an occasional ass pickle, TJ?

"Immense amount of fun tonight, hundreds of tweets all about me, which is what it's all about. Thanks everyone!"

one of his tweets. kind of says it all really.

I don't expect the management to be perfect, quite frankly I don't care if they are.

The management were more like the bloody Men In Black last night; some very swift erasing of 'the truth'. That's actually a very disturbing trait. But it's cool - TJ is like Mulder and Scully rolled into one and has captured it for all to peruse should they feel the need.

there are quite a few others who should be as well as their forum behaviour is as disruptive.

I assume you have reported them to the mods then. If so, I am sure the mods will take the correct decision, as is their way. After all, it is [i]their[/i] forum. If you don't like that, please accept a full refund and close the door behind you when you leave.

my point simply is that the standards are not applied evenly.

TeeJ - Why should they be? I mean seriously... why?

Mattie - my point simply is that the standards are not applied evenly.

If your not happy theres plenty of forums here: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/

As I said. NO ONE is stopping you from using them. 🙄

one of his tweets. kind of says it all really.

It's not him. As I said earlier, only a narcissistic sociopath with Mariana Trench depths of self loathing/confidence, would post such things.

So it can't be him.

Fred has been banned because Mark doesn't like him, it seems pretty clear to me.

It's Mark's site, he can ban whoever he likes for whatever reason he likes, I've got no problem with that but let's tell the truth.

Sorry if this has been said but hasn't Elf been warned on numerous occasions (and banned on several) in the past already? This latest incarnation of his online personality had lasted longer than previous ones but with every post he does seem to push his luck that bit more. I guess 'The Man' had just grown tired of him.

It is a shame because I quite like reading his posts as, even when they are full of nonsense, he writes in an amusing way and often has something interesting to say.

But he can be an arse too.

[i]What tyres for bullying?

Furious Freds! [/i]

😀

STW is a commercial site.

If it costs Mark or his staff time to deal with complaints about Elf or advertisers start making noises about the tone of the forum then, commercially, Mark shoudl act. Why shoudl he pay staff (or himself) to sort a situation out repeatedly.

I didn't have an issue with Elf, personally, but I can understand MArks' frustration with the situation - why shoul dhe waste money on one person out of 100,000 when he has a business to run.

Elf knew he was being closely watched and the likely result of continuing to behave the same way.

What is tedious, is given any thread some feel the need to post their view ten times on the same thread. Almost word for word. It gets to the stage you can guess what they will be saying before they post. Any interesting comment made by someone with a spare 30 seconds in their week is lost. And you end up sticking to the Bike Forum.

It's not him. As I said earlier, only a narcissistic sociopath with Mariana Trench depths of self loathing/confidence, would post such things.

So it can't be him.

Ah, I get it. 😆

I was referring to the Bullheart post removal BTW. Just for clarity...

Jamie

...but do others share his long history of being an occasional ass pickle, TJ?

In my view yes. However their targets tend not to complain to the mods - I certainly do not about abuse directed at me until recently

CaptainFlashheart

I assume you have reported them to the mods then.

Unfortunatly until recently no - and their other targets tend not to as well by my understanding

Scamper - Member
What is tedious, is given any thread some feel the need to post their view ten times on the same thread. Almost word for word. It gets to the stage you can guess what they will be saying before they post. Any interesting comment made by someone with a spare 30 seconds in their week is lost. And you end up sticking to the Bike Forum.

+1 to that.

Well, TJ, here's the thing. If you feel someone has overstepped the mark, then report them. I myself have been guilty of this in the past and have received the appropriate warning from the mods. Fair enough, I would say.

If these "targets" (Nice emotive language, btw) don't feel it's serious enough to report it, then maybe it isn't serious enough.

If it costs Mark or his staff time to deal with complaints about Elf or advertisers start making noises about the tone of the forum then, commercially, Mark shoudl act

Oh go on then, what's Elf's twitter feed?

Naming names, I reckon that hora gets bullied a lot. But then he keeps coming back, so I think I'm missing the gist of it and that it's actually some man love.

Its actually the same characters who do the malicious stuff. Its tedious and worrying. I've been followed from topic to topic before. Like someone carries out a search on your username. That is weird. Seriously weird.

The majority of Other 'abuse' isn't abuse at all. Its good natured ribbing over my bike swapping and head angles from boys who will be boys. Something that I admit I bring on

I keep coming back because I've met some great blokes on STW- alot of regulars.

@elfinsafety

I agree d_s - it's about balance and Mark has to make a commercial decision about the cost/benefit of each case.

I think in Elf's case they've been through a process and clearly the decision was made to stop him posting.

It's not the first time he's had a permanent ban, is it?

Damn. Missed it all. Watched Sherlock and then went to bed.

Can I just put in a word on behalf of Fredelfin?

He actually can't help but come across in the way that he does, due to a personality quirk from which he suffers. I've covered this before, but it seems it's worth repeating. I used to find myself getting intensely irritated by his online "persona", until I realised that he actually can't help it.

When he gets back, let's all give the guy a break, yes?

I'd wager that wwaswas has it. The Bighitters (TM) add little value to STW as a commercial entity, they just consume resource to police, and put people off the site who there is an opportunity to generate revenue from click through adds and subs.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Well, TJ, here's the thing. If you feel someone has overstepped the mark, then report them. I myself have been guilty of this in the past and have received the appropriate warning from the mods. Fair enough, I would say.

If these "targets" (Nice emotive language, btw) don't feel it's serious enough to report it, then maybe it isn't serious enough.

I think its more about not wanting to run off bleating to the mods but to try and deal with it on the forum or to ignore it.

Certainly in future I will be much quicker to report posts and posters that I consider abusive and I urge others to do so as well.