I bow down to your cycling paperback semi-novel and cycling internet site Journalists reading.
On a more serious note, given the likely level of corruption that exists/ed within the UCI/US Cycling et al, surely News Corp were doing some of their own 'research' at the time? Has anyone asked Leveson?
Hora, am I meant to re order that post to make a coherent sentence?
To bitterly hating someone else?
Well, if that makes you feel better, all good. Because you have a polarised opinion that can't be shifted, don't assume the rest of us do. I don't hate him, I think that someone who has built his career on a lie deserves what comes to them and all the blame shifting, evasion and excuses in the world won't change that.
Landis and Hamilton doped, were caught and then went through increasingly lame attempts to avoid admitting what they did. They've now paid for what they did when they could have copped for it much earlier and possibly continued to have a career (like Millar for example). Lance has also avoided that opportunity so if there's proof, he's fair game.
Now, how about you answer my question about what a load of un-caught dopers would have to benefit from by confessing and implicating Lance?
You sir are a buffoon.
And you're a cockweasel. What of it?
Which of Lance's teammates have ever tested positive
Contador?
Which of Lance's teammates have ever tested positive
alex222 - Member
Contador?
Ha - good one. It's easy to forget.
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I think now would be good time to apologise for starting this thread.
It will remain an awesome achievement whether clean or dirty yes
No.
Mostly, you're speaking sense, mostly.
But I can't disagree more with this bit above. Being the best "cheat" is not an awesome achievement, more like the lowest of the low, representing everything that was wrong with the sport.
Take someone like Ben Johnson, the cheat.
OK, later it's discovered that he was far from the only one cheating in that race. He's still a cheat, no better.
But being the best cheat 7 times in a row is still impressive but of course I get your point and it is a good one. i suppose I was more trying to counter the point that i hate LA which I dont I just hate the way he has built an empire/legacy on this clean image which is unlikely to be true IMHO.
I feel sorry for Cadel - how many would he have won as he was clean.
None of Lance's teamates got caught.
A lot (almost all?) of Lance's ex team mates have either subsequently be caught, confessed or are rumoured to be witnesses in his trial.
His never tested positive BS is just that. A look back through the archives shows a lot of the people who have been caught have not been caught by positive tests. Operation Puerto, confesions, syringes found etc but not a whole heap of positive tests.
It seems naive to sugest he didn't dope.
But it isn't necessary to maintain this falacy to preserve his legacy. He was still the best bike rider of his generation. They were all doped up to the eyeballs and Lance still won, trying to claim he was clean is the only surefire way of destroying the legacy.
This argument is cyclic.
Why not wait for him to have been caught with actual evidence.
Post this. If he isn't found guilty - will the cynics put it to bed?
Which of Lance's teammates have ever tested positivealex222 - Member
Contador?Ha - good one. It's easy to forget.
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Probably depends why he is found not guilty. But probably not.If he isn't found guilty - will the cynics put it to bed?
Will the fanbois change their mantra if he is found guilty? Probably not.
But at least the rest of us will be able to move on with the cycling we can watch today.
eh alex222?
Will the fanbois change their mantra if he is found guilty
If he was found to have a positive test I will be crest-fallen.
He has a positive test Hora....at about the same time as he donated a lot of money to the UCI to help them to catch out dopers.
He has a positive test
I asked on a previous page for a source, no one has yet responded?
Personally, I'm more interested in the UCI's position in all this than I am in whether LA gets his comeuppance or not.
There are lots of rumours that if this gets to a hearing with witness testimony, the UCI is screwed. I'd like to see the back of the crony-ism and wheeler-dealer promotional tactics. Seeing that weasel give out the medals at the olympics was cringe-worthy.
Tyler Hamilton and apparently George Hincapie too have testified it (I'd guess that this will come out if LA decides to contest the doping charges) A link was posted to the source of the 100k Euro payment claim on Bike Radar a while back....I can't find it now if I'm honest-it may even have been a Livestrong fund transfer?
I'll admit that i've only skim read half this thread but those banging on about positive tests, have you heard of the biological passport? Positive tests are not needed to convict anyone of cheating, just ask Franco Pellozotti, and USADA say that the values they have from Lances BP from his 2010 come back are consistent with blood manipulation and they are that sure that it'll stand up that they are happy to go to arbitration, AND they have witnesses to testify to his doping in the TdF wining years.
If he was found to have a positive test I will be crest-fallen.
How about if a court finds that the evidence of the witnesses is compelling enough to find him guilty?
Oh and Lance paid 100k USD to the UCI so they could buy a blood testing machine. It was around the time when Hamilton says he tested positive.
That Telegraph piece gives an indication of what sort of storm is brewing for LA...
I cannot see any way he comes out of this "clean". Even if no personal use allegations stick, there is still the public money / use of drugs for the wider team that he led.
If accepted, I hope he goes to jail TBH. The drug tests / failures / use / denial is one thing. Some of the other aspects start to look very much like simple criminal corruption...
You gotta dance like Lance man, spinners are winners.
You gotta dance like Lance man, [u]spinners[/u] are winners.
love the irony - I presume you are not talking about "spin"
I can't believe Lance is doing Ironman.
eh alex222?
Sorry I thought you were suggesting that Contador can be forgotten as a fairly damming ex team mate.
For what is worth I think they should drop it the whole thing. Even if he did they never caught him at it so they were too slow; same goes for Contador's ban really.
I can believe you get an iron man about lance
Alex - obvious troll is obvious
I can't believe you wouldn't give a refund
Lance isn't doing Ironman, he's banned.
I can't believe that you've still got the nerve to post on this forum, but there we go.
same goes for Contador's ban really
They got a trace.
No matter how careful you are- competing for years you'll one day show a trace. Its a matter of timing/luck.
Lets just see how this pans out hey? If hes caught bang on, well his books are all going in the bin. Along with the photobook bought as a birthday present for me.
If hes found not guilty I'll just have to put up with topics appearing on STW for eternity calling him a cheat.
[url= http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/portraits/armstrong.htm ]The link Hora demanded with a positive test for Lance.[/url]
Plus facheux encore, il est contrôlé positif aux corticoïdes lors du Tour de France. Il aura probablement été surpris par la mise en place de la détection des corticoïdes, annoncée seulement quelques jours plus tôt. Présenté, a posteriori, un certificat médical établi par Luis Del Moral, le médecin de l'US Postal, lui permet d'échapper aux sanctions (en contradiction avec l'article 43 du règlement de l'UCI qui précise que le certificat médical doit être présenté au moment du contrôle). L'incident est facheux pour un coureur qui, interrogé sur le sujet quelques jours avant la révélation, soutenait mordicus ne bénéficier d'aucune prescription médicale particulière, ce qu'on n'appelait pas encore les AUT.
Alex - obvious troll is obvious
I genuinely think that if he hasn't been caught they should drop it. Its embarrassing. I also think the same with Contador caught red handed fair enough, caught retrospectively who gives a proverbial.
Edukator - Member
The link Hora demanded with a positive test for Lance.
That's the link that proves he's a doper? 🙄
I skim read that and lol'ed
IronMan - Member
I can't believe Lance is doing Realman.
Hora:
I think they had to cheat just to suck on his wheell ...that is it innit Hora?
Which comes back to that old argument....if they were ALL cheating - he was either on double-smack or **** better than everyone in those tours.
I'm not saying that he wasn't better. The pseudo-level playing field that widespread doping left us with suggests he was very good.
What I'd like to see is that[b] if he was cheating too[/b] then he should pay the price.
The whole legend built on the reputation as a clean rider, the disproportionate attacks on his accusers (many of whom appear to have had at least some merit), the endless legal processes, all seem to make people u happy to let the matter lie. Me included.
I'd like to see all cheats face the repercussions of their acts, and see clean racing.
Edukator - Member
The link Hora demanded with a positive test for Lance.
Is that an official body/agency/news of fact or someones homebrewed website then.
I'll say it again. Lets see if hes guilty or not.
and see [s]clean[/s] [b]boring[/b] racing.
I can't believe Lance is doing Ironman
My brother's done an ironman, he even did it clean (apart from a nasty shit in the woods 10m into the run)
Is that an official body/agency/news of fact or someones homebrewed website then.
That's the problem with all of this. There's half the internet filled with Armstrong chat - facts and reports mixed in with interpretations, rumours, heresay, opinions and PR. No-one knows what's fact and what's fiction anymore, the whole thing has become laughable.
Armstrong allegedly tested positive for minute traces of corticosteroids in 1999 (it's actually in his book) and produced a backdated TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) certificate which allowed that substance. Of course, that's all mixed up in reports that he paid off the UCI, it's all a con, blah blah...
@ Hora
here is a link but it has over 9000 post on it but ive followed it from the start ,every thing is in there from Lance fanboys to haters and ex usa racers who rode against Lance , his cover up test's and how he got advance warning of test so he could shower frist and the reason for doing that and lots more.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=17452
If you don't like that link then Google it, Hora. The cortisone positive has been reported widely including the [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/sports/othersports/12cycling.html?pagewanted=print ]New York Times[/url].
As an athlete I know the rules, you produce a medical certifate when they test you and Lance didn't. He produced a medical certificate from his team doctor after events and spouted some nonsense about bum cream. He tested positive and broke the rules, the UCI didn't apply their own rules and let him off.
I genuinely think that if he hasn't been caught they should drop it. Its embarrassing. I also think the same with Contador caught red handed fair enough, caught retrospectively who gives a proverbial.
Surley the issue is whether they have cheated not whether they avoided tests. there is a long list of drug cheats who never failed a test- it seems like you are saying its ok to cheat if you dont get caught as we will just ignore it.
well your french is better than mine but you are the master of the language of love, non 😉Is that an official body/agency/news of fact or someones homebrewed website then.
The moment I stopped believing all the hype about lance was the incident when he chased down Simeoni. That bothered me more than all the doping rumours. A nasty, pointless act which portrayed him in his true light.
