Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I'm sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.
A dangerous road for Mr McQuaid to tread, it's what did for Oscar Wilde.
Pretty sure McQuaid has far more to worry about when the details come out about this case, to be concerned about a couple of posts on a mtb forum.. payments made to the UCI, alleged covered up test results etc.
Be interesting to see who Armstrong tries to throw under the bus, the UCI, Bruyneel etc.
Personally I think he won't actually contest it, just so the details don't come out, but will continue to deny everything until the grave.
given the cost of a court case I would suggest it'd a dangerous road for anyone. McQuaid would possibly have the UCI funds to play with and is some what wealthier than most of us.
And therin lies the problem with Lance. He has won cases againt the likes of his Irish kiné because he could pay a better legal team even though we have no reason to doubt the honesty of the poor woman he so spitefully attacked with his legal might. Same for the Andreus.
Ulrich won against Werner Frank which was very obviously a miscarriage of German justice at the time, but Frank was later vindicated and I hope got far more back than the 50 000e losing the first case cost him. Ulrich is another dispicable pile of justice abusing... .
He's a scapegoat that really set back cycling some way in the doping fight. He punished people who spoke out either on the road or off it. He has put himself out there as a clean rider and has made his fortune from that image and if (as lots of people suspect), it's a lie, the "biggest name in cycling" needs to be shown to not be above the consequences of the lying and doping.
Yep, I can see your point, thanks, I hadn't considered that.
I'm also someone who follows baseball and agree totally with the approach where "juiced" records get an asterisk explaining that it was during the steroid era from an admitted doper. I don't think you can strike the records completely but I think we will need to make a footnote that those years were not clean.
Gets my vote too. 🙂
A dangerous road for Mr McQuaid to tread, it's what did for Oscar Wilde.
Has McQuaid been bumming the aristocracy? How did I miss that?
Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I'm sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.
I'm fairly sure you can't sue for libel if the alleged libellous comments are true.
this everyone was attiude does no one any favors and its far far from the truth. i raced through out the 90's and was never offered drugs never saw drugs never heard of anyone using drugs and yet when i was ill visited my GP, upon learning i was racing his first words were.. what drugs do you use and how often.. i said id never seen them he refused to believe me saying i had typical symtoms.. that'd be the steroids you gave me for 10 yrs for excema says I.. no chance he said..
everyone believes every rider takes drugs and it simply isnt/ wasnt true.
7 wins that's all I'm sayin
"dodgy seller"
( that's all I'm sayin')
Lol. There was no drug problem in cycling in the 90s? 😆
There's drug problems in cycling [i]Now[/i]
Some dude was using epo recently for strava wasn't he?
So....as we know that pretty much everyone in the TDF in that era was cheating, is there going to be a period of time where there were no winners? No TDF? Should the results just be scrubbed from the record?
Not a bad idea you know.
You sir are a buffoon.
Can forums be used in court as libel evidence? Just a thought as I'm sure Mr McQuaid will be pleased to know what you think of him.
LOL , you should vist cyclingnews forum and go onto the clinc sub section it will open your eyes about the UCI and Lance cover up .But if you belive Lance is cleaner than clean I would give it a miss.
2 pages in and nothing new. Can we wait until something actually happens or do we have to run the whole thing again every week. Do people just cut & paste or have we learnt what we are going to say and how the thread plays out by now.
Cyclist May or May not (nothing proven IN LAW yet) have taken Drugs
Governing Body doesn't want to pursue
USADA Does
Still nothing actually happened
10 Pages by breakfast or my money back!
2 pages in and nothing new. Can we wait until something actually happens or do we have to run the whole thing again every week.
Reading and posting here is optional - just in case you thought it was mandatory 😉
Let me get this straight. If he had to go to arbitration- The USADA can find Lance guilty on the basis of dopers giving evidence against him who are looking for a lesser sentance (but with an obvious personal axe to grind) with NO chemical proof at all?
So he could be stripped of his titles with no actual physical proof just the word of tainted competitors?
That is absolutely ****ing madness.
He could be stripped and classed as a doper even though he never failed a test? WTF.
How is that fair? First Cancer attacked him, then this. That man has had to fight most of his adult life and you wonder why he has an abrasive character to some?
Hincapie has an axe to grind against Lance? How come?
No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up
Also some people righty or wrongly have suggested his cancer was due to all his drug taking it is said he was on the drugs long before he turned to pro cycling .
So he could be stripped of his titles with no actual physical proof just the word of tainted competitors?
They are called witnesses. If I murder someone and 10 people stand up in court and say they saw me do it, that would usually be enough to convict even if there is no physical evidence. It would probably only fail if the witnesses could be proven to be lying - e.g. if the witness could be proven to be not there at the time.
Maybe he is abrasive and aggressive because of all the drugs he has (allegedly) taken?
If I murder someone and 10 people stand up in court and say they saw me do it
If convicted drug dealers, murders and a rapist stood up in court would they make viable and credible witnesses to the specific crime?
As they lay their hand on the bible to give the oath could you look at them and say 'oh yes of course they are honest citizens giving an oath with no ulterior motives at play?
No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up
Also some people righty or wrongly have suggested his cancer was due to all his drug taking it is said he was on the drugs long before he turned to pro cycling .
Wow. Thank you. Could you also tell me is Elvis is still alive?
hora, we get you're a fanboi but I would LOVE to hear how Hincapie, Leipheimer, Zabriskie, Vande Velde and Vaughters have an axe to grind. In fact, Hincapie has nothing to gain from coming forward as his career is over anyway. You have the floor, don't disappoint
First Cancer attacked him, then this.
Cancer is a bastard and nobody deserves it. He deserves the USADA case against him. Don't equate the two, it trivialises cancer and makes you look like a nutter.
Hincapie has an axe to grind against Lance? How come?
Lance got all his team to work to bring back time on Hincaple who was in a break and would have got the leaders jersey in the Tour de France if they had not chased hard, is just one reason.
Cancer is a bastard and nobody deserves it. He deserves the USADA case against him. Don't equate the two, it trivialises cancer and makes you look like a nutter.
Hes been attacked pretty much since his first tour win on his comeback. The whisperers started.
How does this fact make me a nutter?
The floors mine but the walls, ceiling and sky belong to the smackheads and their supporters.
No he has failed drug tests in the tour they were covered up
This gets mentioned a lot, do you have a source for it?
Right, but the 10 men are his team mates.. So even if they are tainted by drug use (& are lying) then we are left with the situation with Lance's entire team, including his right hand man, are on drugs & he is the only one who isn't?
hora - so, tell us about how the current and former riders have an axe to grind and how they're perjuring themselves for some perceived gain. I don't trust Landis or Hamilton but I don't see any benefit to that lot confessing to doping and implicating Lance unless it was true.
Lol @ Higgo!
Hora if his entire team admits to systematic doping being carried out by US Postal/Discovery etc then why shouldn't Lance be charged? Are we to believe that everybody on the team but him were doping?
I don't really care about his legacy etc-I've got cancer survivors in my family whom will always be much bigger 'heros' to me. At the end of the day, his cycling career needs to be judged solely on what he did as a cyclist and not take into account his cancer. You can't go giving his victories to other riders because in most years the majority of the top 10 have already been popped. Just stick a load of asterix by his wins and move on-he needs to be brought to justice to ensure a cleaner future for the sport though.
I'm thinking that he will just accept the ban without challenging it, say that it was pointless contesting as everyone was out to get him, and continue to spout the 'most tested athlete in history and never a positive test' line to the grave...
The same people who subsequently failed drugs tests and he didn't?
I'm a firm believer in if you are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt then you are guilty.
In a court you wouldn't be found guilty because we think you probably did it we think and then ruined for life would you?
Who on US Postal failed a drug test Hora? Other than Landis.....
this case - despite armstrong's spin - is not just about armstrong - 5 people are accused here including doctors, the hog and armstrong - they are accused of using & supplying drugs up to and including 2008, its not just a witchunt to strip armstrong of his titles.
The only reason its gone on this long is that armstrong is doing everything in his power not to stand up and have to face his accusers, this finally has failed, he has to decide by tomorrow what his next course of action is. The other reason its gone on so long is he has the deepest pockets, his attorneys have represented Bush in the past, the judge (Sparks) was actually appointed by Bush - this was LA's last stand.
As I understand it now if it goes to arbitration LA chooses his attorney, USADA choose theirs and then they both have to agree on an independent.
Re the witnesses there are 10 who have already given their statements these include ex teammates, employees of USPS and non cycling related witnesses. As has been said the likes of hincappe arent sore losers - LA has been trying all sorts of tactics to confirm who the witnesses are - hence McQuaids embarassing interlude in the last coupel of weeks, shouting about jurisdiction - the UCI have had the same evidence just didnt bother doing anything about it until last week oddly..?!
And if the rumours are correct Tyler Hamiltons forthcoming book should make interesting reading, if only for the fact its being published depsite LA's attorney's best efforts (again!)
Who on US Postal failed a drug test Hora? Other than Landis.....
I said subsequently.
Most of his ex team mates only admitted they and lance took drugs and did blood transfusion when they were interview by the Feds and they faced jail if they lied .
Which of Lance's teammates have ever tested positive then Hora?
Non Stop Nun - MemberLance got all his team to work to bring back time on Hincaple who was in a break and would have got the leaders jersey in the Tour de France if they had not chased hard, is just one reason.
I'm no lance fan, but isn't that the exact opposite of what happened that day?
Lance was hugely critical of the other teams who were chasing (Garmin, Lotto). It was a mess of a stage. Cav was disqualified to make it an even worse day for HTC.
Hincapie - Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Leipheimer - One positive test in 96 before he went to US Postal. No other admissions/positives
Zabriskie - Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Vande Velde - Never confessed publicly, no positive tests
Vaughters - Only confessed publicly a week or so ago, no positive tests
So, if all of them admit to doping and say Lance was doping too, I can see how you would see them as tainted 🙄
Who would you need to testify in order to believe them
Away from cycling - Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, Jason Giambi, Bill Romanowski and Barry Bonds.
All high profile US sports stars of the same era who were guilty of doping, yet returned no positive tests.
He has refused to let stored samples be tested for the drugs for some reason.
I'm not sure you can read anything into this really- why would he? He could argue that who knows what's happened to those samples or who's had access to them since he gave them?
Tom B - MemberWhich of Lance's teammates have ever tested positive then Hora?
I'm not Hora, but there was:
[b]Actual positive tests:[/b]
Tyler Hamilton
Floyd Landis
Roberto Heras
Peter Meinert Nielsen
Manuel Beltran
[b]Other incidents:[/b]
Pavel Padrnos (arrested in San Remo doping raids)
Benoit Joachim (nandralone - later aquitted on a technicality)
[b]Later admissions:[/b]
Frankie Andreu
Jonathan Vaughters
Let me get this straight. If he had to go to arbitration- The USADA can find Lance guilty on the basis of dopers giving evidence against him who are looking for a lesser sentance (but with an obvious personal axe to grind) with NO chemical proof at all?
You mean if i went to court and all they had was lots of witnesses [ some of whom had done a plea bargain] seeing me do the crime but no actual proof i could be found guily
HOW IS THAT FAIR 🙄
He could be stripped and classed as a doper even though he never failed a test? WTF.
HE has twice and why wont he let his stored samples be retested Sherlock.
One for cortisone with a backdated medical cert for saddle sores - not disputed by LA. Once and ot wa covered up and this is all allegged but LA did donate £100 K to UCI at the time the claim is made
How is that fair? First Cancer attacked him, then this. That man has had to fight most of his adult life and you wonder why he has an abrasive character to some?
OH FFS can we leave your bromance and hyperbole from the thread which was largely rational till you entered.
I cannot be asrsed diseecting the rest of you fanboy drivel. No one hates LA we just think he cheated.
I really wonder WTF you know about road racing as you only appear in threads to defend LA- not on TdF threads are you . As i say he has awesome appeal to non cyclists who put him on a pedestal due to his hype and their ignorance
Right, but the 10 men are his team mates.. So even if they are tainted by drug use (& are lying) then we are left with the situation with Lance's entire team, including his right hand man, are on drugs & he is the only one who isn't?
Well he hand picked them so not his fault and everyone knows that LA was not a control freak and quit elax about stuff so he could not possible have known. I think they had to cheat just to suck on his wheell ...that is it innit Hora?
He has refused to let stored samples be tested for the drugs for some reason.
I'm not sure you can read anything into this really- why would he? He could argue that who knows what's happened to those samples or who's had access to them since he gave them?
Well he could argue that but he could not prove it as they will have records of the storage. If you were clean and you knew a test existed for the drug everyone said you had taken why would you refuse as it would make all this go away for ever and leave some egg on many people’s faces including mine. Are you really suggesting LA is refusing the opportunity to have actual proof and is resisting the opportunity to smugly ram the evidence of his innocence down people throats ...You would need to be quite naive to think that he is refusing this opportunity.
FWIW he always says never failed a drug test not I ever cheated. As noted many athletes of that era cheated and were never caught both in other sports and in cycling - Pantani never failed a drug test in pro cycling either.
I think they had to cheat just to suck on his wheell ...that is it innit Hora?
Which comes back to that old argument....if they were ALL cheating - he was either on double-smack or ****ing better than everyone in those tours.
Wait what? Are you going from saying he didn't dope to he was the bestest of all the dopers?
If that's the case, he should admit it and we can all move on
They weren't all cheating though. Its pretty safe to say that Evans was clean back then...his 8th place one year would actually become first non subsequently banned rider if LA gets popped.
....and the old sage of 'they were all at it so he must have been better' is just a ridiculous arguement. Surely different people will react in different ways to doping, LA had the biggest budget in cycling so would have had the best program available too, plus some are willing to take more risks with their health with regards to doping than others.
he should admit it and we can all move on
To bitterly hating someone else?
I dont think 'smack' would enhance performance - except the rotting of the body from the inside - out.
Hora - you are arguing from ignorance again as your are assuming that everyone reacts the same to EPO. Unfortunately it has different affects on different people so he may have just be more enhanced by it that others.
It will remain an awesome achievement whether clean or dirty yes but that does not mean if everyone was clean he could still have done it.
I rather hope, like a monkey at a keyboard, if you keep it up you will get something right
EDIT:
To bitterly hating someone else?
Well i dont like drug cheats who have built an empire/cult of personality out of a life, is this a flaw? 🙄
