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Much as I hope this signifies the end of populist right wing game show politics I have to question why he insists of doing that funny little run every time he comes on stage.
He should:
a) Shorten the distance between the lectern and the door.
Or
b) Learn how not to run like a chicken.
I imagine some ‘Thick of it’ type deciding the run will show he’s still full of life and shoves him out on stage shouting ‘run Forest run’
Spoiler: populist gameshow politics are not exclusively for the right.
No way, you mean 'the good guys' do this stuff too? Man my bubble is burst.
Maybe we should kick off with a sensible chinwag about how his administration will deal with the world?
My outside bet is that we'll lose a Bohnson and gain a Gove, beg back toward Europe a bit, and squeak a version of non-border on Ireland that doesn't entirely bust the GFA.
Also, does Kamala Harris get her own thread, or does she sit in on this one as a supporting player?
Yeh, you still have both left and right shouting how they’re way is the only way. Playing willing parts in polarisation of views.
But more seriously move the lectern. Most people lose the ability to run normally after reaching adulthood so I don’t think that’s a realistic ask.
Maybe we should kick off with a sensible chinwag
You're the new guy aren't you? 😎
The main thing is that we won't be waking up every day thinking 'what's the mad bastard gone and done now? Nuked China? Started a trade war with Germany? Started and actual war with Iran? Made having Covid compulsory? Made face-masks illegal? Appointed Ivanka as ambassador to Russia?'
That'll do for me.
I can't see that Biden will be playing a part in polarisation. He's got a reputation for being reasonably centrist (bloody commie!), and from the things I've watched recently, he's been good at working with Republicans over his long career.
It's great to see someone who won't surround himself with sycophants like Trump. Kamala Harris was rather critical of him in the past.
Also, it's astounding that people see the (alleged) billionaire child of multi-millionaire parents, Trump, as relatable, yet Amtrak Joe, a middle class bloke who used to take the train to work, as not!
Edit: also, what @binners said ^^^^
Also, it’s astounding that people see the (alleged) billionaire child of multi-millionaire parents, Trump, as relatable,
I think it is his racism and general hatred against others than they relate to.
Also, does Kamala Harris get her own thread, or does she sit in on this one as a supporting player?
Pence didn't.
I think she'll get her own thread soon enough through her actions as I expect her to be more outgoing than Pence ever was.
I guess VP was the only unsackable job in that government so regardless of his ability and commitment (or otherwise) he stayed but I expect much more from Harris. Anyone else left who’s not in the Trump family? Conway nearly went the distance but she used to live in Trump Tower.
I have to question why he insists of doing that funny little run every time he comes on stage.
Of all the shit there is to worry about in the world, Joe Biden's stage entry is pretty low on the list of concern.
First impressions count, thols2.
I have no expectations apart from him signing up to the Paris accords and showing real signs of intent on climate change. Ideally he'd adopt the green new deal but that may be a stretch given he won't have the senate behind him. He also needs to lay the groundwork for 2024 or we risk Pompeo picking up where Trump left off. To do that he needs to bring Sanders, Omar and AOC in to the fold rather than distancing them as the centrists want.
he needs to bring Sanders, Omar and AOC in to the fold rather than distancing them as the centrists want.
At best, he's going to have a 50-50 tie in the Senate, with Harris casting the deciding vote. That's a long shot, it's much more likely to be 51-49 or 52-48. Most of the Republican senators will oppose anything that Biden proposes because that's what their voters want. There are a few moderate Republican Senators left who will probably be willing to work on middle-of-the road stuff (Mitt Romney, Susan Collins for example). However, Democratic Senators in swing states will also need to position themselves as moderates or they will lose their seats at their next election. That means that Biden can only get fairly moderate stuff through, or he needs to use executive orders instead of trying to get legislation passed.
The problem for Sanders, AOC, etc. is that they are perceived as being extreme. Whether that's true or not isn't the point, the problem is the perception. Probably some of the things they are pushing for can be sold to moderates, but there is zero possibility of their policy direction being taken up wholesale because it would be electoral suicide for all the Democrats in moderate parts of the country. It's not just Biden, it's all the Democratic members of the House and Senate who aren't in safe blue seats that do not want to touch Sander's agenda.
The problem for Sanders, AOC, etc
Sanders on the ground campaigning organisation just handed Biden the rustbelt cities which won him the election. This time they put aside the differences and were united against Trump for very good reason, next time that unity and determination will be diluted unless Biden recognises this. I don't expect him to adopt Sanders programme, but he should give Sanders a senior role. The establishment centrists are already calling for Sanders, AOC etc to be sidelined. If that happens they'll lose the next election.
Father Ted voice --> "Ah sure it will all be grand,him with his Irish roots an all"<-- Father Ted Voice
he should give Sanders a senior role. The establishment centrists are already calling for Sanders, AOC etc to be sidelined. If that happens they’ll lose the next election.
Sanders isn't a member of the Democratic Party. The senior roles will go to member of the same party as the President.
The next presidential election will be between a Democrat (most likely either Biden or Harris) and a Republican. The Republican will be much further to the right than the Democrat and will probably try to mimic Trump's style. If Sanders, AOC, etc. and their supporters think that voting for a Trumpist is going to get them what they want, they are nowhere near as intelligent as I always assumed.
Sanders isn’t a member of the Democratic Party.
And that matters why? You do realise he came very close to standing as the Democrat candidate don't you? If Biden can work with republicans, then he can work with progressive democrats who he has more in common with. It's weird how this idea of coalition and consensus building only works in one direction.
If Sanders, AOC, etc. and their supporters think that voting for a Trumpist is going to get them what they want, they are nowhere near as intelligent as I always assumed.
Not supporting the Dems is not the same as voting for Trumpian candidate. But your false information attack on left wing voters is very much Trumps style.
He'll need to sit down with AOC and make her feel wanted because she seems to have a handle on how to get to the latin vote which was one of the reasons that they didn't get Florida, as well as being social media savvy. Whether that translates into a high profile job is another matter because of pandering to centrist/rightwing...
I would give AOC a job and not Bernie if it were me, Bernie is good but AOC is the generation to be supported.
He's already said that the environment and healthcare are at the top of the list so that should help for now.
The corporates and wealthy have been bleeding the US dry for 40 years, through their greed they have failed to see the destruction that they are doing to the system that created their wealth. The US is falling to pieces through lack of investment in basic infrastructure. The Trump tax cuts were the nails in the coffin, the 1% take so much out, but don't feed enough back in to support the system to support even the basics.
Reversing those tax cuts is the only way the US can afford to keep even a small percentage of what is required, including his environmental promises.
If he doesn't reverse them, then he is just doing what the corporate paymasters tell him, and playing identity politics for the media.
Not supporting the Dems is not the same as voting for Trumpian candidate.
If you add up votes, not voting for a Democratic presidential candidate is handing the Republican candidate a free vote.
And that matters why? You do realise he came very close to standing as the Democrat candidate don’t you?
Because people who have spent years or decades working for the Democratic Party will expect that a Democratic President will tap them for positions in his administration over an outsider. Sanders has a core of very dedicated supporters, but he doesn't appeal to the moderates that Biden needs to keep. Losing one Sanders supporter to a third-party candidate is much preferable to losing one moderate to the Republican Party. It would only take a few thousand moderates to switch back to the Republican Party and Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania would be gone.
And that is the trap of voter suppression, only appeal to the 3% in swing states rather than make inroads into the 30+% of disenfranchised voters.
Which reminds me, will the dems bring back HR1 now they are in power, or was it just a pretence when in opposition.
over an outsider
An outsider who very nearly won the Democrat nomination. With all due respect, you're talking rubbish. It's a plain fact that Sanders, AOC, the squad et al played a huge part in delivering Biden's victory, or rather Trump's defeat which is a more accurate description. If you think they can be ignored then you're in fantasy land.
Think about this for a second. Despite the horrors of 4 years of Trump we were lucky that when the US finally got round to electing a despot as president, he was a stupid, incompetent, and self-obsessed despot. Now try to imagine what an intelligent one could do? Pompeo is already on manoevres, if the Democrats don't get their house in order and start listening then we face something much worse than Trump in the very near future.
Sanders on the ground campaigning organisation just handed Biden the rustbelt cities which won him the election.
The other way to look at it is that Biden significantly outperformed the Democratic party's performance overall.
Sanders isn’t a member of the Democratic Party.
Sanders represents the views of Democrat voters. Biden represents the views of Democratic leadership.
The numbers are clear on Medicare For All, college fees and his anti war stance. Sanders policies are the policies Democratic voters want, even what the majority of the population want.
This is a big reason for the underperformance of Biden in this election. He ran a campaign devoid of policy and just said "I'm not Trump".
It got him over the line but when Biden also said "nothing would fundamentally change" then everyone knew where they stood.
The reason the Democratic leadership will never support AOC or Sanders is because they are beholden to their donors.
The game for them is to raise money from corporate donors and use this money to campaign and enrich themselves. And repeat.
The idea of having to raise money from individual donors only based on them liking you and your policies is totally alien to them.
A US political party that actually committed to offering free healthcare, a living wage, college education, ending war and reducing income inequality by taxing the mega rich would win in a landslide. Don't hold your breath as they would be attacked by every establishment pol from the left and right as the devil incarnate for such things.
Hey ho.
To do that he needs to bring Sanders, Omar and AOC in to the fold rather than distancing them as the centrists want.
With respect, that's fundamental Centrist thinking, True Centrist will want to bring everyone into the fold and not just those who sit at the edges of their side of the fence. Distancing them will be the last thing they want to do.
Far from doing so, Biden has openly praised and supported "Berniecare" and there will likely be a version of it, building on "Obamacare". Sadly for Biden however, it'll likely to be universally disliked in Politics, Capitalists will cry it's too close to socialism, robbing Americans the opportunity to afford themselves better Healthcare, Socialists will cry it provides too low a standard of service for those who can't afford insurance because it doesn't go as far as Medicade for all through taxation. Hopefully though, it will do the most good possible for the People and they'll see that whilst not perfect, it's better than what they have now, equally that it won't be torn down the nest time there's a Republican in the White House because of Political Ideology.
Centrism isn't about finding the middle ground between the ideologies of Left and Right relative to the Country you're in to capture floating voters. It's not even about compromising to try to keep both sides happy, it's about ignoring ideology and fundamental thinking to find the best solution to a problem.
An outsider who very nearly won the Democrat nomination.
Sanders represents the views of Democrat voters.
Biden wiped the floor with Sanders in the primaries, which means that Democratic voters preferred him to Sanders. That's why he went to to become the Democratic candidate and is now the President-elect. To become President-elect, he had to convince people outside the Democratic Party to vote form him instead of Trump. If the Democratic Party wants to retain power, they need to keep appealing to those moderate swing voters. Sanders and AOC are not the right people to do that.
Sanders represents the views of Democrat voters.
Not really. You can insert "many" in there.. and replace "voters" with "campaigners", and you'll be onto something.
I would give AOC a job and not Bernie if it were me, Bernie is good but AOC is the generation to be supported.
I'd agree with that. But bringing in AOC (which he should do, she is a very smart operator) in a way that doesn't make the midterms more difficult for his party would be very difficult for him. I hope he finds a way.
Sanders represents the views of Democrat voters. Biden represents the views of Democratic leadership.
The numbers are clear on Medicare For All, college fees and his anti war stance. Sanders policies are the policies Democratic voters want, even what the majority of the population want.
This is a big reason for the underperformance of Biden in this election. He ran a campaign devoid of policy and just said “I’m not Trump”.
It got him over the line but when Biden also said “nothing would fundamentally change” then everyone knew where they stood.
The reason the Democratic leadership will never support AOC or Sanders is because they are beholden to their donors.
The game for them is to raise money from corporate donors and use this money to campaign and enrich themselves. And repeat.
The idea of having to raise money from individual donors only based on them liking you and your policies is totally alien to them.
A US political party that actually committed to offering free healthcare, a living wage, college education, ending war and reducing income inequality by taxing the mega rich would win in a landslide. Don’t hold your breath as they would be attacked by every establishment pol from the left and right as the devil incarnate for such things.
Hey ho.
Biden ran on 4 key policies, Covid, Economic Recovery, Racial Equality and Climate Change.
Of course he poked holes in Trump, it would be madness not to when you're in competition with the biggest buffoon in History. Trump was the one without Policies, he spent his campaign on the defensive, highlighting economic 'success' pre-lockdown and promising a Vaccine as a gold-bullet solution to Covid "any day". Biden promised a brighter future, Trump sold the cult of Trump.
As for "A US political party that actually committed to offering free healthcare, a living wage, college education, ending war and reducing income inequality by taxing the mega rich would win in a landslide. Don’t hold your breath as they would be attacked by every establishment pol from the left and right as the devil incarnate for such things."
It's simply not true, or Bernie would have won the Primaries. Even staunch Democrats don't believe in economic equality in the same way Europeans do and a European style left-wing all things to all people message wouldn't have worked.
The Democrat's will be looking toward the 2022 Senate elections. These are important races in places that a moderate might take a seat from a Republican, but anyone expressing a fondness for socialism will get thrashed. Sanders and AOC are a handicap for retaking the Senate.
https://twitter.com/MollyJongFast/status/1325783652752650241
It’s simply not true, or Bernie would have won the Primaries.
Bernie was walking away with it until the establishment stepped in and every candidate instantly pulled out and backed Biden.
Even then, it was close.
Not really. You can insert “many” in there.. and replace “voters” with “campaigners”, and you’ll be onto something.
87% of Democratic voters want M4A.
Centrism isn’t about finding the middle ground between the ideologies of Left and Right relative to the Country you’re in to capture floating voters. It’s not even about compromising to try to keep both sides happy, it’s about ignoring ideology and fundamental thinking to find the best solution to a problem.
There's me thinking that centrism means standing for nothing.
until the establishment stepped in
In the primaries, the field always whittles down as candidates concede that they can’t get enough support/votes.
There’s me thinking that centrism means standing for nothing.
That's the cynical view that seems to be prevalent among hardliners. The only issue is that not everyone's a hardliner and when you are fighting an election in a FPTP system you need as many people with you as possible.
Bernie was a contender until
walking away with it until the establishment stepped in andevery candidate instantly pulled out and backed Biden.
Even then,it was not close.
FTFY. Biden won the overwhelming majority of the primaries and well over twice the delegates of Sanders. Democratic voters much preferred him. That's why he won.
Centrism isn’t about finding the middle ground between the ideologies of Left and Right relative to the Country you’re in to capture floating voters. It’s not even about compromising to try to keep both sides happy, it’s about ignoring ideology and fundamental thinking to find the best solution to a problem.
There’s me thinking that centrism means standing for nothing.
Centrism means standing for what's right, what's fair and what's best for the situation at hand.
Which I admit, isn't as easy to encapsulate on a T-Shirt as a decades old political dogma. If you want a cause to fight for, or a religion to follow it's probably not appealing, but you achieve less when all you do is fight battles with those who don't agree with you.
That’s the cynical view that seems to be prevalent among hardliners
That's the weird thing.
If you support something that 87% of your party's voters support then you are labelled the hardliner.
It's this amazing piece of PR magic that allows meaningful profess to be a dream.
"You know how you all want M4A? So do I, let's do it!"
"DANGEROUS SOCIALIST HARDLINER"
Face-palm.
To give it credit, it's working. Being a politician has never been so profitable in the US. Their plan works and people swallow it.
M4A?
Pie in the sky, how do we pay for it?
S&P 500 line goes down?
Here's trillions, will be with you tomorrow, no strings, just make sure my portfolio is OK, right?
To quote Biden one final time:
"Nothing will fundamentally change".
Also, it’s astounding that people see the (alleged) billionaire child of multi-millionaire parents, Trump, as relatable, yet Amtrak Joe, a middle class bloke who used to take the train to work, as not!
Trump ate KFC with his fingers, watched trash tv, wore suits like a guy that didn't wear suits, used undiplomatic language.
Biden is long time member of the washington in crowd (elite?) Looks like he'd ask for silver flatware when presented with a big Mac, looks like he has his suits handtailored on Dupont circle and is a master of politi-speak.
It's partly what did for Hilary. It isn't hard to understand. It's still BS but appearances count if you can play them.
You know how you all want M4A? So do I, let’s do it!”
Not something you'll hear Biden say. In fact he has said exactly the opposite. It's a non-startrr as far as he is concerned.
And therein lies the problem with the Dems. It's a big tent. AOC and Sanders live at one end, can deliver east coast hispanics, young people etc. Biden is at the other end. Almost indistinguishable from the less right leaning Republicans. He will probably get the compromise legislation through because his instincts will put him near the republicans. That will annoy AOC and the like but they aren't big enough numbers to matter, yet.
So they will continue to get camels (horses designed by committee) because that's all the system can cope with.
On the KFC, Big Mac etc. thing I enjoyed listening to a Greta Thunberg podcast where she talked about visiting the US congress and found it weird that all the lawmakers were "eating like children" in the fast food establishments that are there.
A very clear divide between Europe and the USA.
weird that all the lawmakers were “eating like children” in the fast food establishments that are there.
Ha! True. Mall Food Courts often feature lots of older guys in suits getting lunch. If you had to drive somewhere to get it, why fast food in a mall?
There are plenty of very good restaurants that do a roaring lunch trade near Capital Hill though.
To us in the UK AOC and Bernie are saying nothing that the majority of politicians (inc. Conservatives) would disagree with. However in teh USA they are at what is perceived to be left wing. For Biden to get anything through the system he needs to start with the easy stuff and slowly change the viewpoint. AOC and Bernie are very loud characters who will demand change if they are part of Biden White House, piss off the Republicans who will then reject anything from Biden.
Changing the USA to a free at the point of healthcare is a huge change in a scale that we can't comprehend. It means more taxes, even if that means no medical insurance bills. It means the end of a large number of jobs which administer the system. It means changes to the medico-legal system to stop lawsuits for any trivial. It means changes to the amount that the big drug companies can charge for drugs affecting their stock market valuation. And much, much more.
A few years ago we were in the States and were asked about the UK's health system. Most Americans struggle to understand how it can work. For the middle class, one of the main topics for discussion is medical cover.
So if Biden gets AOC or Saunders into the White House, he is just going to start a fight that will over shadow everything. Obamacare (for all it's faults) is a starting point, he needs to take this and slowly push it out. Undo the changes done by Trump and push on. That is more likely to work and appeal to the voters who may sit in the middle.
Listening to Biden’s covid briefing this evening was almost soothing, a total breath of fresh air. Quiet, calm, relaxing but getting the point across, polar opposite to trump
Would be so funny
But not sure why Obama would fancy coming here!
https://twitter.com/Mandoline_Blue/status/1325880826484191233?s=19
So if Biden gets AOC or Saunders into the White House, he
Fortunately, he's got a ready made excuse - if the GOP hold the senate, they'll block any cabinet or executive nominations they don't like, so the 'socialists' won't get a look in.
I was amazed chatting to my old boss. She's an extremely intelligent retired engineering leader, Indy based, 60s, female, a daughter, black son in and a mixed race grandson.
She voted Trump because she fears Biden's "socialist" policies. The McCarthyism holds bizarrely strong in the US psyche.
Biden is only centrist in US terms. In europe he would be in the right wing parties.
AOC / Saunders are soft left in european terms
The republicans would be right out on the far right - further right than our hard right tory party
Biden is only centrist in US terms.
The core meaning of "centrist" is that it is a relative term. The U.S. never took to socialism like Europe did and Bill Clinton moved the Democratic Party to the center because that's what was needed to make it attractive to voters. In response, the Republican Party has moved from being a moderate right-wing party back in the 1950s to being a white nationalist party now. That's dragged the center of U.S. politics to the right. If Biden was much further to the left, he would not have won the election. He's about as far left as an American Presidential candidate can be right now and be electable. In the future, it's quite likely that younger people will drag things further left, but that's no use in an election held right now.
Hmm, the Obama as british envoy - I can see why someone would, live in central london like a cosseted gentleman... would be funny to watch him run rings around Johnson and his grifters. Depends on whether his family are enthusiastic about it (although they aren't young children any more). Although I'm sceptical that this really is a serious consideration, I'll believe it when I see him walking through Heathrow
I don't know how much further left the US would travel in future generations; the american dream is about making it yourself and even those on the left subscribe that, so the idea that the federal govt provide stuff runs counter to that - and a fair few imigrants want out of the left leaning countries they left (Venezuela, cuba etc), remember the mexican lady that EdBalls interviewed a few yrs back in TrumpLand, she was totally bought into Trump and the wall keeping imigrants out even though she was an imigrant.
Good point Pook about McCarthy, serious issue that no-one seems to be able to really challenge.
Obama as british envoy
Why would he be interested? A seat on the Supreme Court, sure. An ambassadorship, not likely.
He better get started on his law degree if he wants a seat on the supreme court.
What do you mean?
He better get started on his law degree if he wants a seat on the supreme court.
He has a law degree from Harvard, practiced as a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law.
That's a pretty solid and qualified legal background.
Is biden real though? His ear lobes don't match, is he a composite from one of those websites? 😁
Fortunately, he’s got a ready made excuse – if the GOP hold the senate, they’ll block any cabinet or executive nominations they don’t like, so the ‘socialists’ won’t get a look in.
If the Dems don't get the senate majority (after the Georgia elections) they're pretty screwed anyway, McConnell won't work with them as he's an odious turd - but also to be fair it's not in their interests as if Biden actually demonstrably improves things during his term then the Republicans are going to struggle to win in 2024. Hopefully he can still get a lot done with executive orders.
As for AOC and Bernie - they do hold quite a bit of power now as the progressives hold more sway in the House, they've been silent recently on issues that divide the Dems in order to give Biden the best chance - that will need to be repaid by Biden. I'd be very surprised if Bernie wasn't in his cabinet (unless there was some behind the scenes dealing for AOC to take a cabinet role instead). Ofc without the Senate what are seen as some of the more socialist policies are unlikely to get anywhere anyway
He better get started on his law degree if he wants a seat on the supreme court.
lol!