Jeremy Corbyn

I do worry that Chilcit will be a damp squib. Its not going to accuse Blair of lying is it?

[quote=ernie_lynch ] (not to mention the London Mayoral result)
Actually there have been 4 mayoral elections since Corbyn became leader, Labour have won all 4.

London, Liverpool, Salford, Bristol, true.

2 out of the 4 had not previously been won Labour.

1, Bristol, where the incumbent was independent - I'm not sure how much you can read into that as an endorsement of Corbyn.

I'm not sure - maybe the Bristol voters were voting for Corbyn, maybe they were voting for the candidate on offer and against the incumbent.

The Labour majority in Liverpool was vastly reduced.

Not that I think you can read anything about Corbyn's popularity into mayoral elections - they certainly aren't an endorsement of his electability.

TurnerGuy - Member

wait until scotland has to start funding it though...

Countryside access costs [i]less[/i] than restricting access even before you take into account the benefits to tourism and health.

Free education- the Scottish higher education sector is a massive net bonus to the economy (despite westminster policies designed to hurt UK universities).

But also, the cost of free education for scottish kids is far less than it seems. In the RUK, students have to take on greater student debt, but that debt has to be underwritten. And since so many will never repay that debt, the cost still exists- it's just been kicked 30 years down the road, at which point huge portions of the loan book "asset" will be written off.

The true cost of free education- the difference between the Scottish spend today and the RUK spend over the life of the loan- remains to be seen. There are official estimates, but the most noticable thing about official estimates of student loan repayment rates is that every last one made in the past has turned out to be massively optimistic).

However, the last "optimistic" estimate as of 2014 was that 45% of all student loans will not be repaid. The tipping point is 48.6%- that's the point at which the increase of tuition fees in 2012 ends up [i]costing[/i] us money. It seems incredibly unlikely that this tipping point won't be reached, if it hasn't already, since it had to be raised from 40 to 45% in just the preceeding 6 months before that last [s]obviously made up number[/s] estimate.

aracer - Member

Not that I think you can read anything about Corbyn's popularity into mayoral elections.

Which is exactly what his critics were saying when they thought Labour wouldn't win. Isn't it?

A recurring theme: Before event: "This will be a test for Corbyn and he'll find it hard to survive if it doesn't go well" After event: "Labour did well and it was nothing to do with Corbyn"

Well it depends NW - I don't think you'll find me having ever claimed a mayoral election as being a test for Corbyn (or any other national leader). I wouldn't be saying anything different if Goldsmith had won, and as pointed out Bristol is even more irrelevant.

edit: oh and I'm with you on the university funding thing - what we have here is a bloody stupid system (though personally I still think the "reform" where fees were increased to £9k, but the repayment system changed is an improvement - as those earning less than national average wage pay less than before).

That is because you're a good guy 😆 But lots of people are not good guys about this. Since day one we've had non stop predictions of electoral armageddon for Corbyn and mysteriously every time they get proved false, we just move onto the next one.

There's 2 things in british politics that are mysteriously never revisited after they fail to materialise; predictions of Corbyngeddon, and George Osborne economic targets.

aracer - Member

"2 out of the 4 had not previously been won Labour".

1, Bristol, where the incumbent was independent - I'm not sure how much you can read into that as an endorsement of Corbyn.

I didn't say anything at all about "an endorsement of Corbyn", where on earth did you get that from ?

The Bristol result was an endorsement of Labour, ie, the candidate who won the election stood as a Labour candidate.

I have no idea whether Corbyn being Labour leader had any affect on the Bristol mayoral election result. But it is clear for everyone to see that if it did have affect, and it was a negative affect, it wasn't sufficient for Labour to lose the election.

[u]I have never said that having Corbyn as Leader would have a huge affect on the Labour vote[/u].

It is the Blairites, the Tory press, people like jambalaya, etc. who have made that claim, [b]NOT ME.[/b]

Is that clear.......or do you need any more clarification ? 🙂

I do worry that Chilcit will be a damp squib. Its not going to accuse Blair of lying is it?

I think there will be enough to have a good go at him and they certainly will. I would imagine there is some evidence he told/suggested to Bush we'd go in to Iraq before the Parliamentary decision

teamhurtmore - Member
Epic you are a #posttruthpolticians dream....

I won't be after independence. 🙂

His speech announcing the increase in tractor production figures today was most encouraging

His performance in front of the Home Affairs Committee today (90 mins available online) was as bad as I feared it would be. He is every bit as evasive and downright slippery almost as the worst of them (politicians). Even Shami got told off for passing him notes. Not much in the way of a "new type of poltics" on display today

Chaka was incandescent about the "Blairite" tag being used as an attempt to discredit MPs trying to addres the anti-semitism issue. Also not surprisingly clear he felt Momentum has a significant anti-semtic element which Corbyn was turning a blind eye to.

Didn't realise before today that Seamus (his communucations director) is on video chanting support for recognised terrorist groups.

Ninfan posted this in the EU thread, a film anout the Referendum from a working class town near Doncaster. Specific comments on Corbyn from approx 6:30- 7:30

binners - Member

His speech announcing the increase in tractor production figures today was most encouraging

Posted 1 hour ago

FFS at least make a vague attempt to think of some new jokes. Flashheart was using that one regularly during the Gordon Brown era.

Not only have you ran out of arguments but you've also ran out of jokes. How tragic.

It was boring then, too!

🙂

Can this really be true that Labour MPs are trying to detrrmine who actually owns the logo, the office lease etc ? A tussle over the assets seems like political armageddon ! They've only themselves to blame really as they put Corbyn onto the ballot.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-assets-owns-jeremy-corbyn-leadership-a7121961.html ]Independent Link[/url]

Supposedly Neil Kinnock had MPs in tears with his impassioned speech about the state of the party

He has that effect on me, too.

They've only themselves to blame really as they put Corbyn onto the ballot.

Well they weren't to know that he would win the ballot by a landslide! Like you they thought Corbyn was a certain loser.

And perhaps they were moved to tears by Kinnock because he spoke to them about how he tragically lost 2 general elections? Losing elections is certainly a subject that he's an expert on.

Luckily it wasn't personally too serious for him as he went on land himself a nice well-paid unelected EU Commissioner's job.

ernie_lynch - Member
'They've only themselves to blame really as they put Corbyn onto the ballot.'
Well they weren't to know that he would win the ballot by a landslide! Like you they thought Corbyn was a certain loser...

That's the problem with being an entrenched priesthood, then a new prophet comes along...

Well this is a little bit embarrassing.

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-eagle-s-constituency-branch-issues-statement-supporting-jeremy-corbyn-as-labour-leader-a7124241.html ]Angela Eagle’s constituency branch issues statement supporting Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader[/url]

Mind you so is this.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/06/defeated-labour-rebels-admit-its-finished-as-jeremy-corbyn-refus/ ]Defeated Labour rebels admit 'it's finished' as Jeremy Corbyn refuses to resign as leader[/url]

[i][b]One senior MP told The Telegraph: "It's finished. He will win easily in a second contest if he is on the ballot, it's everything we wanted to avoid."[/i][/b]

So the plotters admit that they could only win if Corbyn wasn't on the ballot paper, with him on it they don't stand a chance. How embarrassing.

Perhaps they could start their own political party which doesn't allow party leaders to be elected?

Perhaps they could start their own political party which doesn't allow party leaders to be elected?

I have missed the posts were 'we' have been arguing in favour of a new party with no democracy. It sounds irresistible.

Do you think it should be put to a vote ?

Not no democracy just those who don't want to follow jc, it is obvious that the Labour Party is as split as the Tories at this point. I reckon the plp could make a good go of it and certainly be elected before a Corbyn lead party.

I see.

Honestly Ernie I don't think you do...

Its much more difficult for Labour to be elected after this fiasco. Why couldn't the PLP just get behind him? They say its not policies but because they think he will lose. ffs Their best answer was Angela Eagle! They really shouldn't have bothered.

ctk - Member
Its much more difficult for Labour to be elected after this fiasco....

I'm struggling with the logic for this one.

The PLP has basically been chasing soft Tory votes and not getting elected.

In the meantime huge numbers don't bother voting, possibly because of disillusionment. Blairite politics aren't working for the electorate. Everyone now knows who didn't object to the austerity measures but who said they were fighting it. There's a fat chance of most of them being preselected again and they know it, hence the attempted coup.

Now that Labour seems to be returning to its roots, support and membership is swelling. I suspect the Party will be much stronger at the next election if it clears out the cynical Blairite Tories.

Not that I want to see that happen just yet because a Labour party that has been cleaned up is the biggest threat to Scottish independence IMO.

You are more optimistic than me epicyclo. I see more infighting and a fudged compromise or two. To the benefit of nobody. Corbyn being all strong and sacking dissenters would be great though.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall of these Len McCluskey meetings!

Ernie yes I saw that, he won't resign. It seems Momentum are signing up new members faster than the existing ones are losing faith in Corbyn so any vote is likely to go his way. Parliament will be in recess soon so the lack of a proper front bench they can cover up.

IMHO Labour have created a real monster where people can join and vote with no qualification period (eg 3 or 6 months) and in numbers that the party cannot verify.

Epic IMO Ed Milliband was an attempt to move away from chasing middle ground voters, it didn't work at GE2015 and the responce has been to lurch further left.

The "coup" going to look like the losers in the café on the apprentice deciding who has to resign before they pretend to rally round JC

Epic IMO Ed Milliband was an attempt to move away from chasing middle ground voters, it didn't work at GE2015 and the responce has been to lurch further left.

IMO Ed Milliband was an attempt to move away from chasing middle ground voters, it didn't work at GE2015 and the responce has been to lurch further left.

As I said before it's exactly the same problem the Tories had after Major lost, they lurched right with the likes of IDS. Yes you increase the support of your core base, but while alienating those that you need to win over to get into power.

Why are Labour so rubbish at coups? They need to take a leave from the Tories i.e. strike hard and fast.

"Ninfan posted this in the EU thread, a film anout the Referendum from a working class town near Doncaster"

That video is very depressing, not least because it merely highlights just how ignorant, deluded and mis0-informed so many people are in areas like that.

[i]"They've been given a vote, and they've put two fingers up at the establishment, that's what they've done. They've said we've had enough, and we want change. It can't get any worse for us"[/i]

So they've just voted to put more power into the hands of the very people who actually shafted them in the first place. 🙁
[i]
"They're pulling this narrative out, that it's about racism; it's not, it's about class division"[/i]

Then, the very first person she interviews, says this:

[i]"The main reason I voted out was because (long pause) [b]Immigration[/b] was one factor. That they need to sort that out. It's beyond a joke. It doesn't affect them because of the areas they live in"[/i]

Where do you even start with such ignorance? It's so sad.

My wife has had a major falling out with a very old close friend who lives in the north east, over Brexit. For pretty much the same frustrating ignorance as shown by the people in that video. The irony is that this woman is actually very wealthy, and totally unaffected by Brexit. Her arguments are little more than deluded rants. She's also fallen out with her own daughter who is a nurse.

The key difference here, is socialisation. My wife works in London surrounded by people from all over the world, and her boss is Polish. We socialise with such a diverse range of people. You get to pick up far more diversity of opinion and thought. And in many ways, we're far more negatively affected by Brexit than the friend, or anyone in Stainforth etc. The friend works more or less from home, and never socialises outside of her narrow lower middle class demographic. Of course, her daughter enjoys a much greater diversity of socialisation. It really isn't rocket science to work out why the people in situations and areas of greater cultural and ethnic diversity, have mainly voted Remain.

The key difference here, is socialisation.

Yes, you need to rub their noses in diversity 🙄

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

So they've just voted to put more power into the hands of the very people who actually shafted them in the first place.

They voted to put power back into the hands of people they get to vote for. Absolutely no one voted for the Mastricht or Lisbon treaties. In fact most people I know who voted Yes in 1975 voted Leave as they felt very strongly they had been lied to about the EEC - which they had of course.

This sums up what I think

[url= https://peterwiddows.wordpress.com/2016/07/03/we-the-0-12/ ]We the 0.12%[/url]

"Yes, you need to rub their noses in diversity"

Said you, using language evolved from Germanic, Nordic, Latin and others. 😆

An article in a right-wing newspaper, quoting a bitter right-wing former employee of right-wing politicians. That really the best you can do?

"Absolutely no one voted for the Mastricht or Lisbon treaties. "

150,000 were polled in 2008 and asked if the UK should have a referendum on before signing up to the Lisbon Treaty. 88% said yes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7273668.stm

Arguably if the population had been given a say on signing up we wouldn't now be in the position of having an unplanned exit and people voting "leave" for such a wide range of issues.

We also shouldn't forget that the Dutch voted against much of the same policy objectives when it was encapsulated in the European Constitution - and the French voted against it twice in referendums.

Also just found a YouGov poll from the same period - only 13% of those polled said they would for for signing up to the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum (see page 2).

If these two polls are representatives they seem to tell us that the majority of the public wanted a referendum before signing up to Lisbon, and that an overwhelming majority would not vote to ratify Lisbon if they were given a say.

Which is presumably why Gordon Brown pushed it through parliament and reneged on Tony Blair's two promises to give the public a vote on the provisions originally part of the EU Constitution.

So is the current mess all the fault of NewLabour knowing what's best for us and being too scared to test their convictions with the public?

jambalaya - Member
...Epic IMO Ed Milliband was an attempt to move away from chasing middle ground voters, it didn't work at GE2015 and the responce has been to lurch further left.

I think that was the spin presented.

But how did he actually vote when it came to the austerity measures?

(I ask because I wasn't interested enough to follow him, but I got the impression on social media that he was only talking the talk, so he wasn't convincing the last few Labour voters I know)

What's happening is the spin doctors are losing control of the more intelligent voters because people can check what is said against what has actually happened.

Actions are starting to speak louder than words because the words are so often lies or deceit these days.

And hasn't Corbyn's archive footage done wonders for his public esteem in the last few days? He was right and stood up to his detriment.

Clodhopper your witty highbrow post missed the word 'enriched' but other than that go get'em tiger.

What's happening is the spin doctors are losing control of the more intelligent voters because people can check what is said against what has actually happened.

Actions are starting to speak louder than words because the words are so often lies

Well the last two referendums have completely falsified that argument with people not even vaguely checking the accuracy if the promises or "facts" made. There is a global phenomenon based on post truth politics that was remarkable with yS but then overshadowed by Brexit and Trump. Facts are irrelevant in this context as are actuall actions eg,

SNP able to position themselves as left wing with a string record on health and education - no really
The coalition and Tory government's characterised as austerity parties when we are running among the most expansionary fiscal policies in the developed world.

Intelligent people have either given up or simple shake their heads in disbelief.

@cheddar - fascinating, I didn't remember those polls.

And hasn't Corbyn's archive footage done wonders for his public esteem in the last few days? He was right and stood up to his detriment.

I am confused. Corbyn caved in on his views and campaigned (sort of) for Remain,

I've joined the Labour Party, since Brexit.

I'm kind of in the balance about Corbyn; can't decide whether he's the best thing since sliced bread, or a complete liability. Either way, I want to have my say.

enfht - Member

Clodhopper your witty highbrow post missed the word 'enriched' but other than that go get'em tiger.

Posted 3 hours ago

Clodhopper FYI enfht struggles to say much on here, usually it's just one short sentence. Often it's simply a reworked previous comment, eg :

enfht - Member

Keep fighting the fight Ernie, go get 'em cowboy.

Posted 1 month ago

@bodgy good to get involved, none of us know if we'll make a difference but you certainly can't from the sidelines

jambalaya - Member
...I am confused. Corbyn caved in on his views and campaigned (sort of) for Remain,

You're not really. 🙂

Remain obviously appealed to more Labour voters than not, and it's not a fundamental party issue AFAIK.

The coalition and Tory government's characterised as austerity parties when we are running among the most expansionary fiscal policies in the developed world.

Probably folk in Sunderland contrast what they hear about expansionary fiscal policy with what they see around them in terms of child poverty and bedroom taxes.

Anyway carry on. Corbyn wants to be be leader to give Blair (The Labour Party) both barrells on Wednesday

Speaking of reports, any sign of the report on suicides of benefit claimants yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/19/dwp-may-have-to-publish-details-of-benefit-claimant-deaths

"Yes, you need to rub their noses in diversity"

a policy more about gerrymandering than anything else

Anyway carry on. Corbyn wants to be be leader to give Blair (The Labour Party) both barrells on Wednesday

So did I miss this?

Statement in Parliament, public apology on behalf of the Labour Party - however all done without mentioning Blair by name for whatever reason (deliberate lack of respect, concern about prejudicing any legal,action ?)

Jambayla and Nifan....since you think Corbyn is so rubbish..do you care to tell us who you hold in high regard as an MP then? If you don't I have to assume you're both just trolling for the sake of party politics (or even just arguing for the simple sake of it)....

Jambayla and Nifan...

Think you're asking the wrong people, you should start with people who actually support the Labour party.

The anti-Corbyn arguments seem to go like this:

He's ridiculous!
Why?
Cos no-one will vote for him!
Why?
Cos he's ridiculous!

etc.

People seem to be arguing from pre-conceived positions and not actually listening to the points. Democracy hasn't got much hope in those situations has it?

This was posted on FB yesterday, dunno if it was posted here or not but it's appropriate:

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

It's the way politica arguments work and its lazy. If one is going to criticise someone they should at least propose their example of a better politician. So, taking Rockapes comment...all those on here criticising Corbyn...who do you think is better and reasons why?

Seems like everyone complains about politicians being lying cheating scumbags. Then we get one who isn't, and everyone takes the piss.

For ****'s sake people have a word with yourselves.

I think most peoples problem with Corbyn is he lives in some ideal world where everyone is lovely and nice and he doesn't do reality. His stance against the Iraq war is tainted by the fact he'd oppose every war the UK were involved in, he wouldn't asses the evidence on whether there was a real threat, his stance on the Gulf War was the same as Iraq.

In my office today he managed to unite people from all sides of the political spectrum and he didn't unite them with praise for his leadership or policies.

So @Dragon..who do you offer as a reference point as an example of a good MP? If you can't provide a positive alternative then imo any criticisms of Corbyn are pretty worthless..

I don't think any of them are perfect and lets face it there are over 500 MPs and you'd be lucky if people know 20, but maybe Ken Clarke, Vince Cable, Charles Kennedy (RIP), Tom Watson, William Hague.

His stance against the Iraq war is tainted by the fact he'd oppose every war the UK were involved in, he wouldn't asses the evidence on whether there was a real threat

yep, he'd want to 'talk it out'. Good luck with that, especially when religion has any involvement.

Just checking do the fervent right wingers on here still not like Corbyn today or has he won them over?

@Dragon...why are they better? Pick one maybe....genuinely interested in your opinion of why? I hope Jambayla offers some suggestions too because he's often quick to criticise Corbyn. Not a JC supporter here but I wouldn't lambast him either ...just looking fo positive dialogue instead of negative dialogue..

So @Dragon..who do you offer as a reference point as an example of a good MP? If you can't provide a positive alternative then imo any criticisms of Corbyn are pretty worthless..

Edenetc - I would suggest that your question is directed in the wrong direction. The most vocal critics of Corbyn appear to be the PLP ie those people who know him well and who have worked with him/for him. There views are pretty clear and it must be bad if they reckon Eagle is better.

In contrast RWers including CMD in the Commons have been expressing their delight in the current situation within the labour party.

@thm you've missed my point. On STW lots of people express negative opinions but do not offer positive examples as reference points. We all vote so everyone's opnion is important.

yep, he'd want to 'talk it out'. Good luck with that, especially when religion has any involvement.

What, like in Iraq?

Just think - if he had talked it out, tens or hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive.

What, like in Iraq?

except that you still have the problem of sunnis and shias hating each other and every other slightly different version of islam.

Once Saddam had gone (unless you were to leave him there) there would have been more civil war.

If you think you could have placated them into all living peaceably together then you owe it the world to change careers and become a negotiator.

Molgrips we've been through his negative points

No experience of cabinet (ie actaual front line , decision making politics)
Against at lot of things is not the same as making stuff happen you are "for" - totally ineffective
Outdated left wing policies which are non aspirational
Actively turns a blind eye to the extremists he gives creedance to and to those within Momentum

His conduct over the anti-semitism issue within Labour is an absolute disgrace as he has worked flat out to cover it up with 3 different reports finishing with one whose terms of reference made clear what the real objective was.

His ignorance and stubborness at the press conference where one of his few (only?) Jewish MPs left in tears after being verbally berated by a Momentum activist in front of him whilst he then stood back and said nothing (I was not the chairman of the press conference, he was stood at the mic ffs). He got a real roasting at the Commons Select committee over this (and other issues) not least from Umana, however he just doesn't care.

As for being "straight" his conduct over the Referendem campaign infuritaed Labour, 7.5/10 and his absolutely half heated approach showed he was not "straight", the honest thing to have done would have allowed Labour MPs to campaign as they wish whilst he was for Leave or just stood aside

except that you still have the problem of sunnis and shias hating each other and every other slightly different version of islam.

Oh yes, absolutely. So maybe we'd have just had a few thousand lives saved.. hardly worth bothering with...?

Outdated left wing policies which are non aspirational

Interested, can you expand on this?

Jambayla and Nifan....since you think Corbyn is so rubbish..do you care to tell us who you hold in high regard as an MP then?

Sure

For a start, Jess Philips could lead the Labour party to electoral victory tomorrow - in fact, given the choice of her, Leadsom or May in the next general election even I would vote for Jess.
Put together a team with Tom Watson, Kier Starmer as home secretary ("If we don't capture the ambitions of a generation, it doesn't matter who is leading the party") and Dan Jarvis as deputy or defence and you begin to have a real team for the future.

The tory party are at risk of repeating Labours mistake at the moment by lurching to comfortable ground - if they want to win the next election, then they need to take a long hard look at the next generation characters involved and begin to reinvent themselves as a post-brexit party of aspiration.
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM, he's a conviction politician and a parliamentarian. Alongside him Tom Tugendhat is turning out to be an impressive one for the future, Rory stewart, Theresa Villiers, Mark Lancaster, Penny Mordaunt - all of who you could build a team around

Hows about that for a start?

Is "conviction politician" the new political cliche?

Corbyn's "conviction" (sic) turned into compromise and pragmatism almost immediately.

"Molgrips we've been through his negative points"

Not really. You've just posted your own reasons for disliking him. And twisting and distorting things to suit your own argument. Again.

And once again, your failure to do your own homework is really quite embarrassing.

Let's look at that poor wee lamb, Ruth Smeeth, the one who fled in tears, shall we?

Would that be Ruth Smeeth, former director of public affairs at BICOM, British Israel Communications and Research Centre? IE, an organisation that actively lobbies for greater UK support of Israel?

The same Ruth Smeeth who was accused of collusion with the right-wing media? The right wing media which actively supports the Israeli regime? The same Israeli regime that Corbyn and billions worldwide, hate and want to see overthrown?

The same Ruth Smeeth that shed a few crocodile tears and started crying wolf about 'anti-Semitism' when it was in fact nothing of the sort?

Yes, THAT Ruth Smeeth. Someone with a vested interest in seeing Corbyn forced out. The Ruth Smeeth that had the freedom to leave a meeting when the very regime she actively supports brutally opresses the people of Palestine in their own homeland, murders innocent men, women and children, uses weapons banned by the Geneva convention, and breaks all kinds of international law in supporting illegal settlements on the West Bank.

Unsurprising that she fled the meeting, rather than have to answer to anyone. Coward.

You're very quick to (wrongly) accuse Corbyn and Labour of 'covering up anti-Semitism', but I never hear you speak about the atrocities committed by Israel, Jamba. Why is that?

Right. It's going to (hopefully) be a lovely weekend, so I'm off to ride my bike and do stuff. Jamba; why not do the same, instead of spending all your waking hours on here, humiliating yourself? Seriously; do yourself a favour, step away from the keyboard and go and have a nice weekend. And the same to everyone else.

Corbyn's "conviction" (sic) turned into compromise and pragmatism almost immediately.

I see absolutely no contradiction at all between having conviction [i]and[/i] an ability to compromise and be pragmatic. I base my entire political stance on that.

His conduct over the anti-semitism issue within Labour is an absolute disgrace as he has worked flat out to cover it up

Frankly sort your own dubious racial attitudes out rather than dish out lectures, its like getting a lecture from Tommy Robinson.

"For a start, Jess Philips could lead the Labour party to electoral victory tomorrow - in fact, given the choice of her, Leadsom or May in the next general election even I would vote for Jess.
Put together a team with Tom Watson, Kier Starmer as home secretary ("If we don't capture the ambitions of a generation, it doesn't matter who is leading the party") and Dan Jarvis as deputy or defence and you begin to have a real team for the future.
The tory party are at risk of repeating Labours mistake at the moment by lurching to comfortable ground - if they want to win the next election, then they need to take a long hard look at the next generation characters involved and begin to reinvent themselves as a post-brexit party of aspiration.
I have said clearly that I think that Rees-Mogg should be next PM, he's a conviction politician and a parliamentarian. Alongside him Tom Tugendhat is turning out to be an impressive one for the future, Rory stewart, Theresa Villiers, Mark Lancaster, Penny Mordaunt - all of who you could build a team around"

Excellent post.

No leftie is as racist towards the Jewish people as you are towards Islam or the Muslims people.

You can't be racist against Islam or Muslims, its a religious group rather than a race

(unlike Jewish and Sikh, which case law shows are racial groups) http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/racist_and_religious_crime/#a04

Excellent post.

a pleasure

You can't be racist against Islam or Muslims, its a religious group rather than a race

Aah - so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better.

His conduct over the anti-semitism

Has he reached "breaking point", would you say?

Aah - so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better.

Well, you can't choose your race

you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

"Aah - so you indulge in religious hatred rather than racial hatred. That makes it so much better".

Well, you can't choose your race

you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

So religious hatred is OK because people can choose their religion.

Fantastic.

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you can choose which imaginary sky fairy you believe in

I know of the law and everyone conflates the terms.

Personally I would say the average muslim is more easily identifiable in the street than the average traveller and the average Jew - lots of ammunition for your scribbles there ninfan even though you know very well what I mean.

Personally I would say the average muslim is more easily identifiable in the street than the average traveller and the average Jew

Really?

your '[b]average[/b]' muslim eh?

Go on then... what are your 'telltale identifying marks' for muslims then Junky?