Jeremy Corbyn

Ernie the Labour MPs voted for the "cuts" as they wanted to show fiscal responsibility, the lack of credibility there being a key factor in them losing the 2015 GE

I want to see Corbyn out now a change from me being most amused he was elected as he has become a magnet for extremists and anti-semites (how many other MPs call Hamas and Hezbollah friends), far from tackling the issue he has tried to bury 3 reports and Shami's "report" might was well have had "cover up" written at the top of every one of its 41 pages. I waded through the lot but you only had to read the terms of referemce to see what the objective was. Did anyone ever say the Labour party was "over-run" ? Not even I accused them of that and I am highly critical on the issue. He couldn't even carry off the press conference either, he only had to behave for an hour. His true colours shone through brightly

ninfan - Member

" crime is that he is the first person in living memory to shake up the Parliament/the establishment. For that reason they will relentlessly try to crush him.
And he's only been able to do it now after 30 years in Parliament because of the huge support he has behind him. "

Eh? Surely this logic should, no indeed must apply to Farage?

Because of course Farage is Leader of the Opposition and as long as his party rallies behind him he stands a chance of becoming the next Prime Minister but one !

Farage is in exactly the same position as Corbyn !!!!!!! 😆

Brilliant ninfan.......don't ever stop! 😆

.

I don't know where the Corbynite conspiracy theories begin or end anymore - Me and Jamba paid three quid to elect the bloke, and I'm sure we would both be happy enough to do so again.

Well read the Daily Telegraph if want to know more about the plots against Corbyn, here's that link again :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/labour-rebels-hope-to-topple-jeremy-corbyn-in-24-hour-blitz-afte/ ]Labour rebels hope to topple Jeremy Corbyn in 24-hour blitz after EU referendum [/url]

Jambalaya might well have "paid three quid to elect the bloke" less than a year ago but back then he was also predicting, with absolute 100% certainty, that with Corbyn as leader Labour would experience electoral meltdown.

That obviously hasn't happened and now all those Daily Telegraph readers who thought their little stunt was so funny are desperately hoping that he will be toppled.

I don't hear Jambalaya talk about the electoral armageddon that will befall Labour if Corbyn remains leader, only lots of reasons why he should be replaced.

The latest one is [i]"The Labour Party needs an aspirational message. Right now its all about booing the Tories like a Pantomime villan and spending money we don't have".[/i]

Not a word about how Corbyn guarantees that Labour gets hammered in elections.

ernie_lynch - Member

That obviously hasn't happened and now all those Daily Telegraph readers who thought their little stunt was so funny are desperately hoping that he will be toppled.

And have you noticed, they're largely back to pretending that the £3 made a difference, rather than just being a kind donation to the Labour party?

ninfan - Member
...Eh? Surely this logic should, no indeed must apply to Farage?

I agree. In fact Farage has been more successful, but in a destructive way. He has caused the avalanche.

Nigel has been working at shaking the Establishment for a long time.

[img] ?oh=7dd960ac76fd08064703437dbe573a9a&oe=57F38F92[/img]

Sounds like John Macdonald and his rent-a-mob have now moved on from the 70's to the 80's, and are using the Militant Tendency as a model for acceptable behaviour. It's progress of sorts I suppose. A natural evolution, in a way

That should help improve Jeremy's already huge, and broad, electoral appeal. Everyone loves a politician whos backed up by a bunch of thugs!

Ask Putin.

I presume that's who he's trying to emulate?

Ninfan and I both voted Labour in 1997 so maybe they should

Well, only if they actually think that getting elected is a more effective way of dictating government policy than protesting about it 😆

That kind of thinking is the territory of the bourgeoisie, and must be resisted at all costs comrade!

Because of course Farage is Leader of the Opposition and as long as his party rallies behind him he stands a chance of becoming the next Prime Minister but one !

i) driving the political agenda to force the PM to offer a referendum on the EU to keep his party together and stand a chance of winning win the last election,
ii) successfully winning that referendum, leading to the resignation of the PM

NIgel Farage has done more to 'shake up the establishment' than Corbyn has achieved in thirty odd years of protest politics.

Ernie, if delivering third to the Tories in Scotland and losing your majority in Wales (who asked him to stay away during the campaign) isn't enough to demonstrate the electoral impact of Corbyn then be my guest and crack on. I have to balance my negative views of Corbyn with the fact that his conduct over the past months has helped deliver a win for Leave.

I am firmly of the view Corbyn will only deliver electoral diaster for Labour, if they want to win they need a radically different agenda than he is promoting.

NIgel Farage has done more to 'shake up the establishment' than Corbyn has achieved in thirty odd years of protest politics.

This

NIgel Farage has done more to 'shake up the establishment' than Corbyn has achieved in thirty odd years of protest politics.

It's far easier to destroy than to create.

Ernie, if delivering third to the Tories in Scotland.....

Yep, Scots turned against Labour because of Corbyn, it had nothing to do with the New Labour/Blairite shower who had been in charge of the Labour Party for the previous 20 years. If only Blair had still been leader, eh?

OK, I see that jambalaya, ninfan, and binners, are all on this thread now, the possibility of a sensible discussion appear too remote. Time to leave it for a while.

From the head of Momentum

The Labour Party has gained 60,000 new members during the current leadership crisis. According to Mr Schneider, 60 per cent of the first 13,000 to sign up volunteered the information that they were joining to back Mr Corbyn against those who want him out, although there is no requirement for applicants to give a reason for joining. He also claimed that a large number had made their applications via Momentum’s web site.

It's far easier to destroy than to create.

But every act of creation is first an act of destruction, non?

Time to leave it for a while.

Noted, why don't you stay. I'll go. Its pointless if any discussion is too one sided

jambalaya - Member
Ernie, if delivering third to the Tories in Scotland...

Actually we love Corbyn up here, but he has one vital flaw. He does not support Scottish independence.

No other Labour leader would have done any better .

He is seen as one of the few honest politicians in the Labour party. He is not personally a liability to Labour as far as we are concerned, but independence is our priority.

Late to the game, but did this ever get posted from Private Eye? Seems relevant.

[img] [/img]

No other Labour leader would have done any better .

Jambayla, Nifan's etc...if Corbyn is so bad why would you be hoping he leave?
Logic would say that as Tory supporters you would be encouraging him to stay (since you think he's so bad) to ensure he makes your party look good....very odd your stances don't you think? 😀 ....

It's a bit like the boy in the playground being mean to the girl because he fancies her...although I don't think you fancy JC, I think you fear him for someone who has the potential to upset your world...

An opposition is important. Otherwise the ruling party can take the piss.

The tories could reinstate conscription and invade France and they'd still be more electable than labour right now.

Now @5thelephant...you're surely not being serious there...if you fear your parties choices why vote for them..?

I didn't.

Ah, crossed communication. I thought you were talking on behalf of Jambayla etc , not as a concerned opposition.

It doesn't matter who you voted for or who's in charge, you still need a credible opposition.

you still need a credible opposition

What do you suggest - that Labour paint some appealing lies on buses and drive around getting gullible folk to vote for them?

What do you suggest - that Labour paint some appealing lies on buses and drive around getting gullible folk to vote for them?

as opposed to vague promises written in stone?

Lies it is, then. Hurrah for politics.

Some would say there is a credible opposition right now since JC appears to be getting everyone's knickers in a twist (membership is not falling for example)... he's challenging the neo-liberal order and people clearly feel agitated by it...

The SNP have made a good fist of being a real opposition. But it would be nice for the official opposition to put in an appearence at some point.

I genuinely think that Dave telling Corbyn 'for gods sake GO!' With some degree of passion at PMQ's was provoked by him going AWOL during the referendum. He was basically saying "when it came to helping out in fighting the more mental, out-there, rabid fringes of the Tory party, and the fruit loops and racists of UKIP, on such a massively important issue, you couldn't even step up and do that!"

A feeling shared by quite a lot of people, myself included

A feeling shared by quite a lot of people, myself included

Then you have to address the question of why Labour voters matched Scottish voters in their choice to Remain, whereas Cameron's lot did not. Cameron has nobody to blame but himself.

Did you not get the memo?

We're leaving the EU.

I know... mad, Eh?

Corbyn - the leader of the opposition (apparently) was AWOL for the whole campaign. Maybe if he'd put in an appearences at some point, the result may have been different.

He obviously had some more pressing, important things to do, instead of HELPING PREVENT US BEING DRAGGED OUT OF THE *ING EU!!!!! THE *ING STUPID, SELF-INDULGENT, USELESS BEARDY PRICK!!!!

He obviously had some more pressing, important things to do

Whatever he did or didn't do was evidently more effective than what Cam the Ham did, so I'm not really sure why you aren't directing your sweary CAPITALS at him instead ?

You missed the other memo too?

Dave immediately resigned.

And at the moment he actually has considerably more credibility than the bearded one, on account of him taking the time to actually bloody turn up and put a shift in!

Why would Corbyn turn up to help? He's a massive EU sceptic. What did he say in June? I'd give the EU 7 out of 10! Wow!!

turn up and put a shift in!

Put a shift in doing what? Oh yes, trying to get his own bollocks out of the alligator's mouth he put them in when he called a referendum without having a good enough deal from EU. But yeah - it's Corbyn's fault, obviously.

Its not Corbyns fault Binners. You are wrong. Same percentage of Labour voters as SNP voted remain. Angela Eagle herself said "he's been working up and down the country with the energy of a 25 year old its not our fault the media are not reporting it"

Media more interested in Tory tittle tattle.

& also his Islington constituency voted massively for remain. Alan Johnson who was in charge of Remain campaign lost in his constituency, so did Tristram Hunts, Caroline Flint etc etc

Well there are a few other threads on that whole debacle. This thread is about the Non-entity who is alladgedly the leader of the Labour Party, who somewhat unbelievably has managed to make his predecessor look like a Churchillian political heavyweight

binners old chap - you are starting to sound like jamba with a spell-checker 🙂

The difference is that Jammers will be enjoying seeing the pathetic, irrelevent state of the present Labour Party. I assure you that I most definitely am not!

What's the end game here ?

Jezza continues in post. General election called by new Tory leader in 3-4 months time. Labour with current MPs get wiped out. New Jezza-compatible candidates get selected to fight the next election in 2011. Also get wiped out.

Or something else ? 🙂

What's the end game here ?

According to the news, there is an attempt to compromise with Corbyn by promising to keep some of his policy points in return for him standing down. Which could work out well - Corbyn gets to peg the party slightly more left, the PLP get a more centrist leader.

Like that's going to work 🙂

Seems to be the best idea so far!

So it's a personality contest ? We'll implement* your policies but errr, it can't be you who does it.

* honest injun, cross heart and hope to die.

binners - Member
Well there are a few other threads on that whole debacle. This thread is about the Non-entity who is allegedly the leader of the Labour Party, who somewhat unbelievably has managed to make his predecessor look like a Churchillian political heavyweight

+ Lots, what is needed now is a strong opposition

So it's a personality contest ?

Of course it is!

a) It's always a personality contest, and

b) in this particular case, people are ignoring the actual policies and things he says in favour of constant mis-reporting and character assasination.

Loving Binners work... On the last page, Corbyn was emulating Putin. On this page he's a political nonentity. It's almost like he doesn't entirely believe what he says!

molgrips - Member

According to the news, there is an attempt to compromise with Corbyn by promising to keep some of his policy points in return for him standing down.

"Hi, remember us? We stabbed you in the back for being too left wing? And now we're all too cowardly to run against you for leadership. Anyway, hows about you resign, and we'll definitely implement some of the policies that we flatly refused to progress when you were leader. Honest."

The Corbyn gamble;

That the majority of Labour MPs have been voted into office [i]despite[/i] not [i]because[/i] they are right leaning Labour lite. Because of our quasi-democratic FPTP system, an AWFUL lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum definitely vote for the candidate most likely to get in and contribute to a possible majority, that isn't the opposite of their beliefs rather than the candidate that actually represents their views. Thus we end up with a two party system whereby BOTH parties ideologies can drift fairly spectacularly away from the general population. Hence we see Labours annihilation in Scotland when a third option became available that could deliver for the public regardless of the fact they won't technically deliver a majority in Westminster. This would also explain the extraordinary popularity of Corbyn when he emerged; he represented something completely different, socially responsible, decent and principled. I know plenty of non-lefty (including myself) types who excitedly got behind Corbyn, it's predominantly been the wealthy, more mercenary characters in my social circles that have been voraciously anti-Corbyn. Oh and anyone ex military or with family in the military; he doesn't wash well with that group of people either, for fairly obvious reasons, swords are far more exciting than ploughshares.

I've watched in a kind of resigned and weary state of non surprise as Corbyn has completely failed to win over the PLP or the media. I've been dissapointed but unsurprised that the 'everyday man on the street' has failed to look past the shitty manipulated soundbites that the press use to bash nails in his coffin. And I've been horrified and dissapointed to see the way the PLP have treated him; whilst almost inevitable, it does make me wonder 'what if' they had wholeheartedly got behind him and delivered a new option, rather than churlishly muttering and plotting to remove him behind his back.

If he's removed, I'm afraid I'll go back to what I was before; a completely disaffected voter, that neither of the conventional parties have at all appealed to, since I was old enough to vote. That's the reason that Ed's labour lost so badly; they failed miserably to offer anything actually sufficiently different to the electorate, so the 'better the devil you know' rule overwhelmingly applied.

v8 Corbyn was wholly unprepared to be leader, he's been a backbencher for 30 years with no department/ministerial role, so its no surprise he can't manage the PLP or the engage media. When you see him preaching to the converted at a Momentum rally or Stop the War he is energised and confident as that's what he's used to, that's what has gotten him elected as an MP all these years.

in this particular case, people are ignoring the actual policies and things he says in favour of constant mis-reporting and character assasination.

Because he never actually *ing says anything or reveals any policies, and even then he's not very good at doing that!

lets look at that list from the page before:

[img] [/img]
/p>

Ok, put what the newspaper says aside, and tell me whether on any one of those issues you can actually draw any conclusions on Jeremy's position on the issue?

Its laughable!

Look at what happened in the runup to the EU referendum - people elected him to Labour leader thinking he was pro-brexit on the basis of speeches like this

then he announced he was backing Remain

Then he spent all his time attacking the *ing EU

To this day, nobody sure how he actually voted!

Getting a ****ing sensible answer or even the remotest glance of policy out of the bloke is impossible, its all a game of semantics, like nailing jelly to the wall.

Now, that could be a sign of political genius if he actually gave a hint what he thought without actually saying it, The greatest politicians leave you thinking they have answered the question without doing so but what Jezza seems to do is just mouth words while white noise comes out and you're left thinking WTF!

Jamby, I partially agree. However I feel it's more that the PLP would not be managed by Corbyn. No amount of 'leadership' will help when the team refuse to consider the man their leader. He never stood a chance with that shower. Now either they go or he goes; and is clear that a) he's not going and b) he gets to keep the name, the funding and the members. The armchair pundits predict that this will consign Labour to oblivion, and they may be right; but by the same chalk, they may be wrong.

They were wrong about Brexit
They were wrong about Boris
They were wrong about Corbyn
They were wrong about Trump
They were wrong about Labour in the last GE.

In fact, they've not been right about much recently. Maybe there is a new politics after all, both good and bad.

Getting a ****ing sensible answer or even the remotest glance of policy out of the bloke is impossible, its all a game of semantics, like nailing jelly to the wall.

then he announced he was backing Remain

Then he spent all his time attacking the ****ing EU

Perfectly possible to complain about the EU and vote remain. Don't you see how?

Perfectly possible to complain about the EU and vote remain.

Agreed, but would you not say that his job as leader of the party was to actually promote party policy and get [b]other people[/b] (e.g. "natural Labour supporters" as well as just the party drones) to vote remain?

Well, yes. I would.

Getting the message across is clearly his huge weakness.

he's been a backbencher for 30 years with no department/ministerial role, so its no surprise he can't manage the PLP

v8ninety - Member
...I've watched in a kind of resigned and weary state of non surprise as Corbyn has completely failed to win over the PLP or the media...

Well seeing as the most of the media is owned by the non-resident billionaires whose interests are served by the Tories and the Blairites, that's not surprising. And seeing as the Blairites have their post parliamentary careers lined up with the same crowd, it's also not surprising that they cannot be convinced.

He has to cull out the Red Tories. The public is with him even if the chattering classes aren't.

Oh, did I forget the BBC?

Someone has done a very fine job of showing how all the positions of power in the BBC are owned by Labour Blairites, but I didn't bother to remember it because like many Scots I regard the BBC as an unreliable source of news.

We subscribe to the meme "Is that true, or did you hear it on the BBC?"

So Corbyn hasn't a chance of winning over any of that lot either.

And you know what, it doesn't matter.

It's the public that will be voting for him, and they seem to be rallying to his cause in ever greater numbers.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

His acolytes set up a hashtag and a twitterstorm.

Isn't it normal practice for the opposition to not reveal any policies for the first 3 or 4 years of a parliament?

Millinand managed to stretch it out to 5. (apart from freezing energy prices)

Osbourne/Cameron definitely didn't have any policies.

So how does Corbyn get anything done in parliament if the PLP response is 'says you'.

And the PLP would be wiped out in a GE or any BE.

And the PLP would be wiped out in a GE or any BE.

(not to mention the London Mayoral result)

Actually there have been 4 mayoral elections since Corbyn became leader, Labour have won all 4.

2 out of the 4 had not previously been won Labour. There are now more Labour mayors in the UK than there were before Corbyn was leader.

Corbyn might be an electoral liability for Labour but there isn't much proof of that. In fact support for Labour appears to be increasing. There has certainly been no "meltdown".

Although I have no doubt that what the Parliamentary Labour Party have done in the last week will seriously damage Labour. And then when that becomes apparent they will of course blame Corbyn.

Anyone see McDonnell stepping in as Leader to keep the party together? Heard this aired a couple of times today from labour activists. Jeremy gets defenestrated for his brexit shithousery, placating the Blairites. Meanwhile McDonnell keeps the grassroots happy by taking the chair, and maybe the PLP would wear that for the time being?

I know he's said that this is precisely what he won't do, he's known JC for 40 years etc. but it's not hard to see circumstances changing where his hand would appear to be forced.

Anyone see McDonnell stepping in as Leader to keep the party together?

I don't think there's any chance of that at all. I am significantly closer politically to McDonnell than I am to Corbyn, but that imo makes McDonnell more divisive than Corbyn.

Corbyn is actually a very unifying person imo, even his critics call him an "honest and decent man", I can't imagine that level of generosity being shown towards McDonnell by his enemies.

And the reason Corbyn received 60% of the vote in the leadership election isn't because 60% of those who voted share the same goals as Corbyn - the Left doesn't make up 60% of the Labour Party and supporters, it was because they trusted him more than all the other candidates.

Furthermore while McDonnell comes across really quite well in TV interviews and the like, in fact much better than I expected, imo Corbyn comes across even better - I don't think any other Labour leader has the ability to come across to voters as straight talking and honest as Corbyn.

The problem isn't Corbyn. The reason the Labour Party is so divided today, or at a least section of it is at odds with the rest, is because the Parliamentary Labour Party will not accept the democratic choice of the party as a whole.

It is the PLP that is a threat to unity, not Corbyn.

Personally as things stand at the present I think the PLP coup will fail, in fact it's probably not too early to call it a "failed coup".

After one failed coup the chances of a second coup are remote to say the least. The plotters are weak. They have had 10 months to prepare for this but they still haven't chosen a leader, they have no plan, they are indecisive, and they don't know what to do next. They are making Corbyn look strong.

Three-quarters of Labour MPs are political careerists and opportunists, they will behave as you would expect politicians to behave - as the coup fizzles out they will slowly start realigning themselves and talk about the need for unity and how they must accept the wishes of party members. They will inform us that for the sake of the country and the party they will strive to work with Corbyn. Probably.

Nothing is certain in politics - no matter what some people might claim.

I reckon some people on here need to reflect on what the definition of a democratically elected leader of a political party means....JC was elected with a decent majority last year and membership is currently rising. First, that's democracy, second it shows there's a lot of people out there that don't hold the mainstream, neoliberalist viewpoint of the status quo and are looking for change... personally I think those who struggle with that should join the Lib-Dems , they're the middle ground you're seeking. People should vote for a party that shares their values and not just stick with a name because it's all they've ever done. Politics isn't football...

personally I think those who struggle with that should join the Lib-Dems , they're the middle ground you're seeking.

Well that's what people thought. Until the LibDems smelt the tempting whiff of shiny ministerial limousines. Then came the bedroom tax, increased tuition fees, more privatisation, and bombing Libya to allow Al-Qaeda to take control.

And people realised that the Clegg had simply turned the LibDems into repackaged Tories.

We all know what happened next.........political oblivion.

So much for the "middle-ground" eh?

But that's exactly the point I'm making @ernie...society is constantly changing...so LibDems have changed again and have a new leader...if people were more open-minded (not trying to be inflammatory) and assessed the here and now instead of being stuck in the past, they'd realise that current Lib Dems, for example, are more akin to their values than current Labour. Political parties are constantly changing - so individual's voting habits/allegiances should change accordingly too..

It's easy in Scotland.

We have the SNP, the Blue Tories, the Red Tories, and the Yellow Tories, and of course, the Greens. The Tory tribes are almost extinct at MP level, heading for extinction at Council level, but the d'Hondt system allows them to survive at MSP level.

Corbyn has just appointed as Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland a man who feels Scotland gets too much, so the complete extinction of Red Tories can't be far off.

(Slightly off topic) SNP are to the right of the Red Tories, lookmat what they've actually done when in power. SNP vote is cross party like the Brexit referendum, independence trumps everythin

jambalaya - Member
...SNP vote is cross party like the Brexit referendum, independence trumps everythin

Sure does.

.including common sense and well-being

teamhurtmore - Member
.including common sense and well-being

🙂

Common sense suggests that just about anything we do will improve on the results of 300 years of Westminster rule and improve our well-being - which isn't as bad as it could be because we have free access to our countryside, a properly functioning NHS, and free University education.

Epic you are a #posttruthpolticians dream. No wonder the SNP do so well if that final sentance is actually believed. Anyway this is a thread about JC ....

What's the Eagle up to? Has she landed yet?

What's the Eagle up to?

Like the other plotters who claim that Labour needs to offer strong leadership she's not sure what to do next. Should she challenge Corbyn? Or should she not because she'd probably lose?

It's a difficult one.

Perhaps she needs another 10 months to think about it ?

After all she wouldn't want to make the wrong decision.

we have free access to our countryside, a properly functioning NHS, and free University education.

wait until scotland has to start funding it though...

Sure does.

I can respect that, you are willing to take some pain and even the risk of being worse off (always impossible to know the future) in return for independence

jambalaya - Member

always impossible to know the future

And yet you claim to know with 100% certainty what the 2020 general election result will be should Corbyn be Labour leader.

Next you'll be telling us that you don't actually have a crystal ball.

I feel so disappointed.

In.My.Opinion. - I can't predict the future, but then again 8)

Anyway carry on. Corbyn wants to be be leader to give Blair (The Labour Party) both barrells on Wednesday

I think he intends to stay on past it. Wishful thinking by Blairites/trolls that all he cares about is Chilcot.