Jeremy Corbyn

Ernie - serious question

Do you honestly think that the voters of this country, who have never elected a government with views as left wing wing as Corbyns ...

I made the mistake of thinking that it might be worth reading one of your posts binners but I stopped right there. If I wanted to read drivel like that I'd pop down the road and get myself a copy of the Daily Mail.

You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn. Or the later Labour governments whose reforms such as decriminalisation of homosexuality, equal pay for women, and race relation acts, just to give a couple of examples, transformed what was still a conservative society. Nothing Corbyn suggests is a radical as that.

I asked a couple of pages ago why some people are still claiming that Corbyn is far-left, it was a genuine question as I am genuinely baffled as to why some people believe that. I got nothing and now you trot out the little gem that Corbyn is more left-wing than the 1945 Labour government which created the Welfare State.

At the start of this thread you were one of Corbyn's most vocal supporters now you're ranting that he's so extreme Left that you know with complete certainty that he would lose the general election.

What's changed, apart from the target of your ranting? Has Corbyn swerved massively to the left since the start of the thread? Has Labour witnessed electoral meltdown since the start of this thread?

And poor old big_n_daft is so lacking in ammunition to attack Corbyn that s/he resorts to accusing him of having Alzheimer's.

In fact the obvious lack of ammunition Corbyn's enemies have, the PLP want to blame him for the fact that over 17 million people voted to leave the EU, convinces me more than ever that Corbyn is the right man for the job.

I supported Corbyn's election as I thought every other candidate would be eaten for breakfast, just as Miliband was. I thought Corbyn would more than likely fail but the others definitely would.

The one hope for Corbyn in my mind was that he'd be a breath of fresh air that the disenfranchised could relate to and support. That he could get his message across and gain support from the young on a ticket of hope and of alternative. The long shot was that this could create a movement that dragged people along and gained momentum up towards the election where people would finally be fed up with the Tory lies.

Unfortunately that's not going to happen and Corbyn has been exposed as leader just at a time when he needs to be stamping his authority. He'll never recover from this.

Problem is if there's a new leader we'll be back to my original thought. the prospective candidates will be eaten for breakfast....... So what do we do?

OK ernie as the only informed Labour historian here

Why did Labour lose the last election?
What happened to the core vote?

Should be easier enough to answer....

charisma of, say, Bernie Sanders or Neil Kinnock

Well ALLRIGHT!

jambalaya - Member
We can compare this to Newcastle United, the supporters weren't satisfied with mid-table and a manager and owner from down South, only a Geordie would do. Now they are in the Championship with an owner from down South.

You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn

There are plenty of obvious candidates......

rhetorical again??

there isn't anyone who would be credible in the current generation that want the job now due family or other issues

I assume labour are holding out for 2025 as their next best chance

rhetorical again??

😉

Just matching the mood BnD!!

You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn

Some how does that relate to today?

May I?

The suggestion is that Corbyn is not as "left wing" as the media is potraying him, if you look back into recent history. They are whipping up a foam of nonsense despite the fact that even when the Labour Party WAS really left wing, nationalisation of just about everything, they won by a landslide...

As I understand it. 8)

I think that large parts of the labour party need to stop spitting the word Blairite out like its a swear word too. Grow up FFS!

Yes, the man is odious on a personal level! Yes, we view everything through the toxic legacy of Iraq. But to discount everything else is absolutely ridiculous. He was elected with a landslide. Then re-elected twice (despite Iraq!). When I look around the northern towns, at the schools, libraries, Surestart centres, and facilities that were built, you have to ask yourself would any of that stuff have been built if we'd have had 3 Tory administrations during that period. Well given that they're presently trying to close them all down, or sell them off, I think we all know the answer to that. What about the minimum wage?

This centre left administration did a lot of good. Just imagine what the Tories would have done in that time? They'd probably have devised a way to privatise the air we breath by now.

So for the people now at the top of the labour party to just reject this out of hand. To use it as a term of abuse, and totry and purge it from the party is patently ridiculous. Its petty, and juvenile, and more importantly it is completely counter productive to a population that has shown in election after election that it quite likes the centre ground. Enough to vote for it in the last 5 elections. Because although Dave has been derided as the heir to Blair, its won him 2 elections. And the administration about to be ushered in now I fear is about to show us how truly centrist Dave was.

Which is why now more than ever, Labour needs to re-occupy that centre ground. The PLP knows this. The almost Maoist cult of Jeremy are far too blinkered to see whats staring them in the face.

And the last time they did that, they cast themselves into the political widerness for the best part of 2 decades

chakaping - only just read your post, thanks for the clarification.

I don't agree with your suggestion that Corbyn is a poor communicator though, on the contrary, I think he is an excellent communicator.

He's not a great public speaker but Tony Blair was and I never knew what the **** Blair was trying to say. No one knew what Blair was saying when he made speeches, they just thought it sounded good. Although the WI weren't impressed when they famously slowed clapped him.

Corbyn has the ability to speak very clearly and make others understand exactly what he means. I am convinced that every time Corbyn is interviewed in a TV studio and is asked relevant questions Labour gains a few more votes.

How do think Corbyn went from absolutely nowhere at the start of the leadership election to winning it by the biggest margin in Labour Party history if it isn't the skills he has to communicate his ideas to people? Was it all that good press he was getting what did it?

Morning binns.

I assume that your position on the question of "What is the Labour Party for" is for persuading change for the "better" by working inside the system, would that be fair?

How do think Corbyn went from absolutely nowhere at the start of the leadership election to winning it by the biggest margin in Labour Party history if it isn't the skills he has to communicate his ideas to people? Was it all that good press he was getting what did it?

That's a very good point. 😯

mikewsmith - Member

"You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn"

Some how does that relate to today?

Yes it does.

Because today is the day that binners said :

[i]"Do you honestly think that the voters of this country, who have never elected a government with views as left wing wing as Corbyns"[/i]

HTH

No one knew what Blair was saying when he made speeches, they just thought it sounded good.

Yes... thats why he won 3 elections, because people liked his speeches, even though they didn't understand them

Jesus! Typical bloody left wingers. You think people only reject what you are advocating because they're thick? And if only they'd let you get on with running things, then they'd soon learn whats best for them comrade?

And then they wonder why they never get elected? I've never heard such sanctimonious, superior, patronising drivel in my life

@ ernie

I think, however, that the collective character of the current voting public may just have changed in the past 76 years.

You can't extrapolate those past circumstances and overlay them on today's situation. It's not a good fit.

@ binners

So what you are saying is that lying to and nanipulating the public to get what you want is ethical?

Does the end justify the means, then?

I've never heard such sanctimonious, superior, patronising drivel in my life

[img] [/img]

Corbyn has the ability to speak very clearly and make others understand exactly what he means. I am convinced that every time Corbyn is interviewed in a TV studio and is asked relevant questions Labour gains a few more votes.

I agree. The problem is no-one wants to give him airtime so others can listen.

Calm common sense and rational thought doesn't sell papers or get coverage. Accusing MEPs of never working while in Brussels or stabbing your mate in the back does.

Didn't you complain earlier that all binners wanted to do was post pictures, ernie?

Although i do like the conceptual link to "the end justifying the means"... 😆

Didn't you complain earlier that all binners wanted to do was post pictures, ernie?

Why would I do that? It's up to binners what he posts. If he wants to post pictures and ask me if I fancy mefty why would it bother me?

.

@ ernie

I think, however, that the collective character of the current voting public may just have changed in the past 76 years.

You can't extrapolate those past circumstances and overlay them on today's situation. It's not a good fit.

You need to direct that comment at binners not me.

It was him that was making the point concerning how voters have voted in the past, not me.

I think, however, that the collective character of the current voting public may just have changed in the past 76 years.

This. If 1945 is your electoral reference point Ernie Labour in England and Wales is going to look like Labour in Scotland. Corbyn is as far left as I can remember and I'm going back to Michael Foot.

Today is a quiet day in respect to the Somme commemorations, we are then going to resume the in-fighting and we'll have Chilcot and the Momentum crowd with be in full voice. Full self destruct mode. If PLP can't force Corbyn out relatively quickly I can see a 2020 GE result of 150 Labour MPs. Once they are seen as being unable to win an election just as in Scotland their support could evaporate.

ernie_lynch - Member
Didn't you complain earlier that all binners wanted to do was post pictures, ernie?
Why would I do that?

Erm, dunno. Why would you do that?

It was him that was making the point concerning how voters have voted in the past, not me.

I thought it was you who was saying that the 1945 result was an example of why Corbyn's appeal would be popular today. Did I not read that correctly?

"You have obviously never heard of the 1945 landslide Labour government which was closer to Fidel Castro than I am to Corbyn. "

I thought it was you who was saying that the 1945 result was an example of why Corbyn's appeal would be popular today. Did I not read that correctly?

No you didn't read it correctly.

I was pointing out the obvious nonsense behind binner's claim that voters have never elected a government with views as left-wing as Corbyn. All Labour governments before Blair were more left-wing than Corbyn.

Ah.

I agree. The problem is no-one wants to give him airtime so others can listen

He needs to learn this as the entire debate is dumbed down.
One of the reasons Blair said nothing

Like Obamas Yes we can or Trumps Make America win again
Its sounds great but it is empty pithy rhetoric

the public love it though...sadly

I was pointing out the obvious nonsense behind binner's claim that voters have never elected a government with views as left-wing as Corbyn. All Labour governments before Blair were more left-wing than Corbyn..

And everyone goes misty eyed and yearns for the halcyon days of power cuts, 3 day weeks, uncollected rubbish and calling in the IMF, don't they Ernie? Such magical times.

Dear god! Talk about being completely detached from reality

teamhurtmore - Member
OK ernie as the only informed Labour historian here

Why did Labour lose the last election?
What happened to the core vote?

Well maybe it had something to do with the 750,000 Scots living in England.

Quite a few were Labour voters, and those I know did not vote Labour after Milliband joined the hatefest against Scotland and made it clear he would not work with the SNP.

That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.

However I think that cost Labour a lot of support.

It certainly cost them Scotland which used to return 40-50 Labour MPs and now has only one.

That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.

They have - that what is so intriguing, why ignore it?

Still a bit of internal mud slinging is always fun to watch. The only question is which is more entertaining the Labour or Tory version.

Good job there are no serious issues to deal with....

The only question is which is more entertaining the Labour or Tory version.

One is really important and will have a potentially huge effect on all our lives
One is a pointless circus

But you're right... I suppose in the absense of anything important to worry about, this is what happens....

binners - Member

And everyone goes misty eyed and yearns for the halcyon days of power cuts, 3 day weeks, uncollected rubbish and calling in the IMF, don't they Ernie? Such magical times.

Dear god! Talk about being completely detached from reality

So you gone from claiming that voters would never vote for someone as "left-wing" as Corbyn (despite you voting for him to be leader) to now claiming, after you realise the nonsense that you've spouted, to, left-wing governments are rubbish.

And you're too clueless to realise that the 3 day week was under a Tory government.

You don't need to be a Labour historian to know that, only what you are actually talking about - it helps.

One is a pointless circus

On the contrary, I think an effective opposition is vital especially at the moment.

But it is extraordinary how people/parties are unable to step back and assess the situation in front of them. Labour have just elected two "leaders' who are/were not up to the job. The Tories did it before then (IDS, Howard and a too-young-at-the-time Hague). And there is a good chance that both might do exactly the same again.

Its a perfect illustration of how-inward looking they have become and how largely unfit they are for purpose. Still their "me, myself, I" approach is probably quite reflective of society at large, so in that respect we do get the politicians we deserve. Good job no one wants them running large parts of the economy. Imagine that.....

Just stating what it is Hurty. Not what it should be.

But Ernie and his comrades seem absolutely determined to have us all visit their quaint little 1970's theme park, until we all realise how brilliant it actually was/is and vote Jeremy in with a landslide.

Its not if, its when, comrade

*salutes Red Flag*

[img] [/img]

Politics is all a lot of bullshit really, isn't it...

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing binners

Meanwhile....

Out of interest, has Eagle spread her wings yet?

Your skills at posting pictures clearly outweigh your skills at constructing coherent arguments binners, I would stick with that.

In the meantime I've got stuff to do - happy picture posting 🙂

Corbyn is unelectable and Boris is a vote magnet. Time to rub it all out and start again 🙁

tmh there was a PLP meeting at 10:30 I suspect out of respect for the Somme anniversary we'll hear nothing today. As I posted there is hope he may agree to quit perhaps after Chilcott, he got what he wanted with a Leave vote and I think he really wants to have his day over Iraq. After that there is nothing left.

Nice line from Martin Kettle in todays Grauniad:

[i]Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake[/i]

Quite

After that there is nothing left.

Intended pun?

Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake

😀

teamhurtmore - Member
'That of course is purely anecdotal. I wonder if anyone has done a survey, it would be interesting to know if it had an effect.'
They have - that what is so intriguing, why ignore it?

I was meaning if there was a exPat Scots voters resident in England effect.

If there has been a survey done on that I seemed to have missed it.

Maybe any effect was cancelled out by the equal bile coming from the Tories, but upsetting a large group isn't likely to get you votes from them..

He is different to other major party leaders and previous recent Labour leaders in that he doesn't subscribe to the neoliberal consensus of austerity, corporate power, aggressive wars, tax cuts/avoidance for the very wealthy, development of weapons of mass destruction, privatisations, etc.

So for those reasons he attracts a lot of attention. Which when coupled with outright hostility from the Tories, the Blairites, and the Tory press, gives him quite a hard time.

Well said ernie.

He is different to other major party leaders and previous recent Labour leaders in that he doesn't subscribe to the neoliberal consensus of austerity, corporate power, aggressive wars, tax cuts/avoidance for the very wealthy, development of weapons of mass destruction, privatisations, etc.

I thought he was different because other than the slogans he has no policies

You do realise you have spend about two days and lots of post just making the same point over and over again

Perhaps you ought to develop another "policy" for disliking him 😉

I'm remembering why I usually try to avoid STW politics threads.

Has there been any proper feedback from the people who voted him in? From what I can see all this chat on here is just regurgitating the media spiel....for sure, if that's what you base your opinion on go ahead but it's hardly an unbiased opinion (especially since the media decided how much coverage to broadcast of his pre-referendum voice in the first place). I hope JC stays or leaves based on democracy, not whether the Establishment just say so...

Apparently a number of CLPs in London voted no confidence in him yesterday and polls have shown a significant decline in membership support (but he would still just win)

Apparently theres been a huge surge in membership, so the 3 quid communists are preparing for battle. Their victiory? To consign labour to the dustbin of history, ushering in permanent Tory rule.

I've just thought... Ernie and the 3 Quid Communists would make a great band name. Their first EP - Permanent Tory Rule

@mefty + hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

@binners....communists eh....

hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

As I understand it, yes, also I am not sure whether that poll covered the £3ers who were most on his side.

PLP just waiting for his polls to decline a bit more then push someone forward. PLP caused this shitstorm no blame can be laid at Corbyns door. (watch the Rosebushes if you are going to lay blame at his door)

But of course as people have made clear in this thread it IS Corbyn's fault that Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband lost the previous 2 G.Es and surely if we get rid of Corbyn and replace him with a centrist Blairite bod the Labour Party will smash the next G.E whenever it is called.

I'm sure Angela Eagle or Chuka or whoever would bring back the vote from Labour heartlands. Maybe a rebranding as Chuka McUmana to get back Scotland.

@mefty + hasn't membership increased by 60,000 recently and no one knows whether it's in support of him or hoping to vote him out...

I reckon 50/50. (Going by twitter posts) Hopefully enough Tories will join to see Corbs through

Once again the Conservative party has proved why it has a PhD qualification in political ruthlessness, while at the same time the Labour party is struggling to even manage a GCSE retake

Excellent find.

This whole power to the members has backfired spectacularly, its too cheap, there are no proper checks including on multiple applications, there appears to be no qualification period, ie you can sign up today and vote tomorrow

Indeed, it's almost so cheap and easy to do that mischief makers might sign up to elect him in order to weaken the party...

Seven months ago, on this very thread (page 109) I warned that the party was repeating the mistake of forming a 'cult of personality' as they did with Blair. A warning that had significant history on the political left. I can only restate that warning again now.

I thought he was different because other than the slogans he has no policies

That's odd because I'd have said that his major problem is that he has no simple slogans to paint on buses, or tunes that the proles can hum along to, so he relies on boring stuff like reality, which is inevitably too complicated to be easily sold.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/everything-man-once-found-refreshing-and-different-about-corbyn-now-idiotic-and-awful-20160701110076 ]The Mash nails it again[/url]

Haha "he doesn't even own a car what a dick"....what a great piece of intelligent journalism...for the record I'm not a JC supporter...just critical of all the media brainwashing going on at the moment...

I read that mash article as making fun of people who've changed their mind as much as making fun of Corbyn

Are you aware of the concept of satire? Or is that a capitalist Blairite conspiracy too? 😆

edenvalleyboy - Member

Has there been any proper feedback from the people who voted him in?

There is a YouGov poll out today of Labour Party members which suggests that he would win :

[img] [/img]

However, and this is quite important, the poll [i]only[/i] included Labour Party members, not registered supporters or affiliated supporters, among whom his level of support has been significantly higher in the past.

And what is also quite important to mention is that the 50% support of party members the poll claims he enjoys today is [u]exactly[/u] the same level of support he received from party members in the leadership election last year.

Actually 49.59% of party members voted for him when he won the leadership.

So according to the YouGov poll Corbyn's support among Labour Party members hasn't fallen recently, which I have to be honest surprises me a little.

One thing above all else that the leadership election last year taught us is just how out of touch Labour MPs are with their own party (never mind their own voters).

So far there is scant evidence that has changed very much.

@binners - I'm a way too Left to have a sense of humour anymore.... 😀

Edit; cheers for that post @ernie..

At least 60,000 new people have joined the Labour party in the past week amid delays to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership challenge.

[quote=molgrips ]

At least 60,000 new people have joined the Labour party in the past week amid delays to Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership challenge.

apologies

DrJ - Member

That's odd because I'd have said that his major problem is that he has no simple slogans to paint on buses, or tunes that the proles can hum along to, so he relies on boring stuff like reality, which is inevitably too complicated to be easily sold.

apologies

I thought he was different because other than the [b]boring JC "reality" based [/b]slogans he has no policies

that OK for you?

Let's lighten this up: 🙂

[img] ?oh=cdd0b01a13fa4b4607763dbaeed596f3&oe=5805B7EC[/img]

Buried among the lies, the obvious distortions, and the shameless manipulation of actual facts, you occasionally come across an article which says it as you know to be.

This is one such article :

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rob-atkinson/labour-party-jeremy-corbyn_b_10773378.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics

Epic 🙂

Mind you they may have seen a photo of Gove and felt right at home

Ernie seems a bit harsh to desribe the PLP as opportunists, Leave just won the Referendum not least as Labour did not do enough to pursude its voters to Remain 66/33 wasn't enough. Tories where 40/60 and Kippers 5/95 (probably 0/100 and the 5 was a statisitcal error) - as we can see 66/33 wasn't enough they needed to do better.

Actually 49.59% of party members voted for him when he won the leadership.

So according to the YouGov poll Corbyn's support among Labour Party members hasn't fallen recently, which I have to be honest surprises me a little.

One thing above all else that the leadership election last year taught us is just how out of touch Labour MPs are with their own party (never mind their own voters).

So far there is scant evidence that has changed very much.

How dare you come in here spoiling all the fun with actual evidence and staistics Ernie.

The problem for all of us is that we have some numerical evidence to support that Corbyn is more popular than either the press or the STW echo-chamber would have us think. But we have little way of knowing if the upsurge in party membership is 1) representative of general growing national support for labour, or 2) representative of people joining to get hm out or keep him in.

Also genuine naive political question -is there an accepted way of 'measuring' the effectiveness of an opposition party?

...As Corbyn Central posts on facebook listing a large and rather amusing list of conservative u-turns and climbdowns that have taken ace since August, and we have a rather precarious and awful leadership race in the conservative party, yet all I hear from STW and the papers is how ineffective an opposition labour has been. What would be different today had we had Blair or Smith as leader of the opposition?

as we can see 66/33 wasn't enough they needed to do better.

What would be different today had we had Blair or Smith as leader of the opposition?

they might have some alternative policies to challenge the government with rather than vague JC "reality" based slogans

they might have some alternative policies to challenge the government with rather than vague JC "reality" based slogans

as you keep reminding us.

do you think these vague reality based slogans on the opposite benches have helped or hindered the government? 4-13 months into a 60 month period of government, are policies or parliamentary defeats more important for an effective opposition? And is there a way of measuring this? Again, Corbyn Central seem to have almost all the numbers on their side so far. Surely there must be a way of measuring how bad it really is?

I thought this sums the attitude of the plotters nicely :

[i][b]"Every member of the shadow cabinet who resigned abstained in the vote on the Welfare Reform Bill in 2015. Needless to say, Corbyn voted against it. So those who fail to stand against the most regressive attacks on the poorest want to oust a guy who did stand against it because they say that they need a viable opposition to the Tories. That’s the great warped logic of the Labour cabinet."[/i][/b]

[url= https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8738/neil-mcleod-appalling-treatment-jeremy-corbyn-shows-where-labour-heading ]The appalling treatment of Jeremy Corbyn shows where Labour is heading[/url]

@ernie....it's because the rally [s]cry[/s]whine of our current political establisment is "but it won't [s]get us elected[/s] give me the power I've been promised by my priviledged education"...however, it's not really surpising they put their egos above the people since they haven't a clue what the majority of this country want/need..

@nifan ...no need to post up links of your Tory leadership contest pin-ups where they're all screaming.."look at me..look at me...I'm just like you really...I went to a comprehensive like you..I grew up in a one parent family...we're the same..you can vote for me I know what it's like to be you.." ...what an embarrasment. 🙄

The Labour Party needs an aspirational message. Right now its all about booing the Tories like a Pantomime villan and spending money we don't have. The parties obession with the Iraq War is fueling its self destruction. As noted in the press yesterday any leadership candidate who voted for the invasion is tainted and a candidate who wasn't even a MP then has a big advantage (independent of the fact that we don't know how they would have voted). That's madness. The party has been overun by activists with other causes than winning a Labour majority. Wrong direction.

We know Corbyn has voted against a lot of things, 500 times against his own Labour Government. Now's he is seeing it cuts both ways. He needs to vote for something and unkess he has support being leader is no different to being a protest MP apart from sitting at the front rather than the back.

No offense, jambalaya, but I do get the impression that you're one of the very last people that anybody even semi-attached to the Labour Party would take advice from. Carry on.

No offense, jambalaya, but I do get the impression that you're one of the very last people that anybody even semi-attached to the Labour Party would take advice from. Carry on.

To be fair David Cameron takes exactly the same position, as this comment in today's Morning Star points out :

[i][b]"If Corbyn were an unelectable disaster for the opposition party, why should the outgoing prime minister demand his replacement by somebody more effective? Even Cameron is not that spiteful towards his Tory successor."[/i][/b]

Jambalaya is just towing the Tory line that Corbyn must be replaced. For the Tories, and most Labour MPs, effective opposition means abstaining, that's why they were elected - not to cause trouble for the Tories on important issues.

And if you doubt the sheer scale of the problem, if you doubt just how rotten and corrupt the Parliamentary Labour Party is :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html ]These are the 184 Labour MPs who didn’t vote against the Tories' cuts[/url]

.

The Daily Telegraph has been at the forefront of the campaign to overthrow Corbyn, more so than any other paper including the Daily Mail (TBH in comparison the DM has been quite fair to Corbyn)

The Daily Telegraph obviously has a special relationship with the plotters, [u]10 days before the EU Referendum[/u] the plotters were opening telling the Daily Telegraph that they were about to stage a coup, they even detailed what tactics they would be using.

The Daily Telegraph of June 13 :

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/labour-rebels-hope-to-topple-jeremy-corbyn-in-24-hour-blitz-afte/ ]Labour rebels hope to topple Jeremy Corbyn in 24-hour blitz after EU referendum[/url]

Now at that point the smart money was on that voters would vote to Remain, the coup was put off until after the EU Referendum because they simply couldn't have one before. But it had to be before the Chilcot Report.

If you doubt just how serious Chilcot is for the plotters, almost all of whom unlike Corbyn voted for war (which is one of the reasons that they can't decide on a leader) today's Independent :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-chilcot-inquiry-iraq-war-report-impeach-law-a7115266.html ]Chilcot Inquiry: MPs seek to impeach Tony Blair using ancient law[/url]

I don't know who will win the next general election but I do know with complete 100 percent certainty that whatever the result the Daily Telegraph will have backed the Tories.

Corbyn's crime is that he is the first person in living memory to shake up the Parliament/the establishment. For that reason they will relentlessly try to crush him.

And he's only been able to do it now after 30 years in Parliament because of the huge support he has behind him.

Jambalaya is just towing the Tory line that Corbyn must be replaced.

😆

I don't know where the Corbynite conspiracy theories begin or end anymore - Me and Jamba paid three quid to elect the bloke, and I'm sure we would both be happy enough to do so again.

crime is that he is the first person in living memory to shake up the Parliament/the establishment. For that reason they will relentlessly try to crush him.
And he's only been able to do it now after 30 years in Parliament because of the huge support he has behind him.

crime is that he is the first person in living memory to shake up the Parliament/the establishment. For that reason they will relentlessly try to crush him.

Really? I've barely noticed him.

No offense, jambalaya, but I do get the impression that you're one of the very last people that anybody even semi-attached to the Labour Party would take advice from. Carry on.

Ninfan and I both voted Labour in 1997 so maybe they should

To be clear I got very close to paying my £3 to vote for him, filled out the form but decided at the last second he was going to win anyway so didn't spend the money. I think my responce to the why question was something like "i am committed to the electorate having the opportunity to vote on a true socialist manifesto in 2020"