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South Africa?
Being anti-zionist is not being antisemitic.
Jeremy Corbyn, however, is both. The evidence of that has just been published this morning. in great detail.
Have a listen to the Luciana Berger interview and see if you can maintain the ridiculous notion that he isn't. A representative of the EHRC is presently being interviewed on Five Live and is listing the hundreds of complaints they investigated of antisemitism against the leader's office. Not one or two. Not tens. Hundreds.
You keep your head buried in the sand if you like. There seem to be plenty people who still refuse to believe that the sainted Jeremy could ever do any wrong, no matter how much evidence is put before them.
To be fair to the Labour Party the post about Luciana Berger isn't balanced:
"She suffered constant harassment, intimidation, threats of physical violence, which were all brushed under the carpet and ignored by the leader’s office. "
This would seem to imply that Luciana's Berger's treatment was reserved for her as a Labour MP. The reality is that harassment, intolerance, intimidation, threats and an unwillingness to debate on facts in a courteous manner isn't just reserved for others on the left - it's also dished out to literally anyone that has a different perspective or fails to say they agree with the "required" position.
At the last but one election our Labour MP made a great deal out of free speech whilst the local activists were spending most of their time abusing and harassing other candidates standing for election.
Their conduct extended to abusing the neighbours of the other candidates, telling the children of one candidate that the parent was a pedophile and screaming abuse at the other candidates as they went canvassing on doorsteps.
In one case residents had a load of momentum activists screaming abuse at the candidate on residents' doorsteps - the activists were patently unaware of the judgement locals would make on them / their candidate because of their own behaviour.
The intolerance of some on the left is also clearly deemed acceptable by senior Labour leaders including Sir Kier - as evidenced by his inaction over one of his front bench calling a political opponent "Scum" in the House of Commons - which then resulted in the recipient and his family being called scum by local activists.
If Kier does anything (which seems unlikely based on past form) it should be to restore the norms of courteous discourse to the Labour Party. For a democracy to work well we need ideas to be tested and challenged in the interests of finding the best possible way forward - and part of that is listening to each other without immediately making value judgements and resorting to abuse and intimidation.
He's just been suspended from the party.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1321800172607840257?s=19
From a couple of Jewish members of the twitterati:
Andrew Feinstein Retweeted
Tom London
@TomLondon6
·
2h
Jeremy Corbyn is one of the leading anti-racists of his generation
The fact that the Establishment - scared of his Socialism and of his support for Palestinian human rights - have painted his as an antisemite is the most disgusting piece of PROPAGANDA in UK in modern times
Of course, it is.
*wanders off to Twitter to watch it go into meltdown*
I don’t believe that he is, but some of his comments were idiotic.
This is such a stupid thing to say. If you say something racist your racist end of. Don't excuse his behaviour away.
Corbyn's response was entirely anticipated by Labour, and their response to it was ready to roll. I'm sure he knew what would happen too, and is happy to be marched to the gallows.
Be interesting to see if any of the other previously Corbynite MPs stick their heads above the parapet in support. Sir Kier will be hoping so, I think.
Be interesting to see if any of the other previously Corbynite MPs stick their heads above the parapet in support.
I've just checked and Richard Burgon has gone very quiet. Not a peep out of Rebecca Long-Bailey either
I'm sure Jezza will revel in his martyrdom. He'll be loving this. And the usual tinfoil hat brigade will see it as proof of their persecution complex
I’ve just checked and Richard Burgon has gone very quiet
You won't have long to wait, I'm sure 🙂
‘I never would consider myself as a career politician. I had in my mind that I would be a diligent constituency MP, and also be a voice for socialist politics from the back benches. So I wasn’t going to bend my views or keep my mouth shut in order to try and get promotions.' Richard Burgon (2018)
Not looking to defend Corbyn - but we have an openly racist party actually in power. It just shows how far this country has slipped.
It’s more the mask that’s slipped rather than actual levels of racism
He’s just been suspended from the party.
Which shows your lot how to behave.
It’s more the mask that’s slipped
Talking of which...
What, specific, occurences of anti-semitism are referenced in the report?
Read it yourself
I have read it (scan read it). I'm curious to know what is defined as antisemetism. Unless I'm mistaken, I can't see a definition within the report?
I’m curious to know what is defined as antisemetism.
It's more or less whatever Netanyahu says is anti-Semitism.
I can’t see a definition within the report?
On page 20 top of page 21 wrt unlawful acts under the 2010 Equality Act:
Our investigation focused on whether the Labour Party committed unlawful acts
of discrimination or victimisation relating to race or religion, or harassment
relating to race:
• race: meaning Jewish ethnicity
• religion and / or belief (religion): meaning Judaism.
He'll have more time to spend on his allotment now..
Thank you John, i missed that.
I'm still dubious that any findings in the report relate directly to religion.
I have read it (scan read it). I’m curious to know what is defined as antisemetism. Unless I’m mistaken, I can’t see a definition within the report?
strictly speaking, it's not the purpose of the report to define antisemitism. they are investigating if the equality act of 2010 was broken. It was, and specifically in relation to the treatment of, and attitude towards jewish ethnicity and judaism. Therefore antisemitism took place
Antisemitism: hostility to, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews.
I’m curious to know what is defined as antisemetism
Annex 3 - Legal Annex
I can’t see a definition within the report?
It's in Annex 3, basically the IHRA definition - the one that the Home Office does not use.
This is such a stupid thing to say. If you say something racist your racist end of. Don’t excuse his behaviour away.
I see you're working hard to maintain polite levels of discourse. You're also wrong. Firstly because calling his behaviour "idiotic" is the opposite of excusing it. Secondly because I didn't say he had said something racist. Thirdly is because if we hang everyone who made a slightly unfortunate remark decades ago, and which they now regret, there won't be many left who meet your puritanical ideals.
More utter bullshit from the right-wing of the party, but it's hardly surprising given their history and their sneering supporters like binners and the centrist commentariat.
I particularly liked the "Political interference in anti-Semitism complaints", such as the time EVIL JEREMY CROBYN "interfered" to accelerate investigations against Ken Livingstone... which is a bad thing, apparently??
OFC the irony of wailing about Corbyn's "purges" of the party will be lost as they gleefully remove any left-leaning member and melt back into Blair Pt 2. Just as long as the Red Team win, who cares what they stand for, right?
It’s in Annex 3, basically the IHRA definition – the one that the Home Office does not use.
I believe the IHRA definition includes examples of anti-zionism. Which is deeply unhelpful.
strictly speaking, it’s not the purpose of the report to define antisemitism. they are investigating if the equality act of 2010 was broken. It was, and specifically in relation to the treatment of, and attitude towards jewish ethnicity and judaism. Therefore antisemitism took place
My understanding is that the report was able to establish that Jews were treated less favourably than people overall. Which is very disappointing but not very surprising. I believe that many if not most large employers are breaking the law with regard to their treatment of people with protected characteristics.
More utter bullshit from the right-wing of the party,
Last time I checked the EHRC aren't the "right wing of the party".
It’s in Annex 3, basically the IHRA definition – the one that the Home Office does not use.
Or not
The IHRA definition is not legally binding. To identify any unlawful acts by the Labour Party we need to apply the definitions contained in the Equality Act 2010.This is the approach that we have taken throughout this investigation. We do not comment on the IHRA definition for other purposes.We are satisfied that the unwanted conduct we identify in Annex 2 meets the definition of harassment without reference to the IHRA definition and examples.But we are also satisfied that it would meet the IHRA definition and its examples of antisemitism.
Today showing that the left is still ****ed and will be for some time.
More utter bullshit from the right-wing of the party,
Have they infiltrated the EHRC? The bastards! Will they stop at nothing?
Last time I checked the EHRC aren’t the “right wing of the party”.
They aren't, but they're not the ones who suspended Corbyn.
The report points out failings, all of which were improved under the previous labour leadership - more effective handling of complaints (thanks to firing Sam Matthews who was sitting on complaints to score points against the party), accelerating investigations into antisemitism (which is a bad thing apparently), etc. OFC this has all been spun as any/all failings being directly caused by Corbyn and the left.
Also: lol at jumping to the defence of the EHRC, known bastions of neutrality (who don't think there's any reason to investigate the Conservative party). AFAICS your barometer for good/bad is "hates Corybn"/"literally anyone else".
More/better words here: https://jacobinmag.com/2020/10/labour-antisemitism-report-ehrc-corbyn-commission
None of this is surprising. The more membership and possibly union funds drift away the more the LP will be dependent on Starmer's sponsors, who'll be quite pleased. Lord Sainsbury also funds the Tories, who'd have guessed?
People may joke about tin foil hats, I understand your stance, but who do you think appoints the commissioners to the EHRC?
It'll be interesting to see the next polling. Booting grandad out of the party so publically, and with some considerable justification, will no doubt be a huge vote-winner.
As statements go about the party being 'under new management', it's a biggie. Not that they had any choice, given his response of continued denial
People may joke about tin foil hats, I understand your stance, but who do you think appoints the commissioners to the EHRC?
is it the elders of Zion?
but they’re not the ones who suspended Corbyn.
Corbyn has been suspended because of the statement he made today. He could have chosen a Mea Culpa, but instead he chose not to, and continued (in the face of a pretty damning report) to be evasive and suggest reports of antisemitism have been "dramatically overstated". You may not like it, or Kier Stamer, and I've no real beef with Corbyn, but this is what it should look like; immediate suspension and proper investigation...The thing the report concludes that Corbyn was incapable of doing himself; repeatedly.
Today showing that the left is still **** and will be for some time.
It will be as long as their 'own side' care more about appeasing the racists on the right wing than defending members and politicians who have given decades of their life to the party. It's amazing that people in the labour party and the wider labour 'movement', including those in the media who are supposedly sympathetic to the centre-left, have allowed the right wing to brand them as racists whilst allowing the racism on the right to be completely ignored.
You know, the racism which allows a western government's army to murder kids with almost no criticism. The racism which allows bombs to be dropped indiscriminately on communities as punishment for the actions of extremists. The racism which allows a whole country to be effectively imprisoned behind a wall and left to poverty and destitution. I hear very little about that racism, and it seems the current labour leadership has decided to ignore it and enable it at the altar of political expediency.
I'm done with them (was a while ago tbh). They do not represent the interest of working people or the cause of social justice and fairness. They represent only their own tawdry ambition. I hope to god they get nowhere near power.
Booting grandad out of the party so publically, and with some considerable justification, will no doubt be a huge vote-winner.
Yep, huge win for the Labour Party as a political party, can see this helping them a lot on their way back from electoral desert.
I hope to god they get nowhere near power.
To be fair Daz, permanent Tory rule does seem to be the default position that those on the left feel happiest with.
I'll tell you who won't be happy that grandad has been booted out by Starmer...
The Tory party
He was all their birthdays and Christmases come at once.
To be fair Daz, permanent Tory rule does seem to be the default position that those on the left feel happiest with.
More nonsense. A left-leaning Labour party would have won in 2017 if it weren't for the internal efforts of the PLP and the right - who would rather have the Tories in power than the left. As a result, you now have Boris & Brexit. Good job!
is it the elders of Zion?
Close - it's the government - Tories, if I remember rightly, and in this case headed by a lawyer whose firm does considerable work for .... you guessed it, the government!
A left-leaning Labour party would have won in 2017 if it weren’t for the internal efforts of the PLP and the right
Another delusion the left likes to comfort itself with. More tinfoil-helmetted conspiracy theories. Winning the argument? Yeah, right. They lost because they were unelectable. Even against someone as hapless as Theresa May. This country would never elect somebody like Corbyn as PM. Over the following 2 years, they became even less electable as they trooped off into electoral oblivion. Corbynism failed by any metric. And the fault for that lies squarely at the door of one Mr J Corbyn.
Its brilliant to see the back of him as it just makes the labour party more electable
I just hope that his fellow cult members follow through on what they've been threatening for years and get their messiah to form another party. It'll be amusing watching them all lose their deposits at a general election
Just as long as the Red Team win, who cares what they stand for, right?
I'd argue it's marginally better than "it's not fair we didn't win, look what we stood for"