Labour were unelecatble in 2010/ 2015
Unelectable? Labour got close to winning in 2010 and denied the Tories a majority. Labour very nearly won in 2015, and left the Tories with a near unworkable majority of Major-esque proportions.
They were totally electable and were a whisker away from being elected.
Conservative only have the mandate of circa 25% of the voting age population, a figure that coincides with people on salaries of £65000 and above who think they rank among the well off. In that figure lie the truly well off, Millionaires and above. So thats 25% voting out of pure self interest.
Theres no one left for Conservative to vote chase but for the odd disgruntled UKIPer
actually only 6% of people who pay income tax have that income before tax, and 3% after tax, though fwiw not all vote Tory
Also people who resigned from the shadow cabinet had tried to make it work, see accounts posted somewhere round page 150.
Big and daft, and you're correct, I it was stoneclough ward who voted Tory in protest of the irwell bursting its banks, and apologies, crossed wires were all mine
He only needs to get a proportion of the 40 odd% who couldnt be arsed to vote on side
No, he doesn't
He needs to get them on side in specific swing seats rather than in existing safe labour seats
The problem there is that in those swing seats you not only have to attract non voters, but also keep the floating voters, the people who sit in the centre ground, onside as well, and on top of that you have to prevent the galvanisation of non voters and UKIP on the right wing who were pretty put off the Tories by Cameron and his pro-Europe, gay marriage agenda, but are likely to come flooding back home to the safety of the conservatives out of deeply engendered opposition to Corbyn and the loony left agitprops he has surrounded himself with.
So, the challenge he faces is:
Engage and activate leftist non voters in swing seats without scaring away the centre ground floating voters or rousing the sleeping and disaffected latent right wing voters... whilst winning back Scotland.
A slightly more complex problem I am sure you will agree.
Absolutely
A slightly more complex problem I am sure you will agree.
Spelled out here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06950lm
A slightly more complex problem I am sure you will agree.
Yes. He might have a chance if it weren't for the likes of binners and the media portraying him as some kind of raging communist imbecile.
His stance is let's sit down and work out how to help people. That's something I can vote for tbh.
It would be admirable and possibly workable were his actions supporting the line. But when the complaint listed by several of the departing shadow cabinet was that they couldn't get time with JC to discuss anything, he's missing out the obvious resource that any leader should mobilise to achieve results.His stance is let's sit down and work out how to help people. That's something I can vote for tbh
As a constituent of Scotland's only Labour MP, I fear a switch to the SNP who nearly grabbed it last year. Our MP is a good one and, if he's not happy with JC's leadership, I'm going to have to accept there's more to that than spurious point scoring.
But when the complaint listed my several of the departing shadow cabinet was that they couldn't get time with JC to discuss anything, he's missing out the obvious resource that any leader should mobilise to achieve results.
Oh aye, no argument that there is a skills gap. But to go on about sixth form common rooms and Trotskyism is pointless and damaging, and false.
Daily Politics today
Left wing voters more intolerant of other political views
Right wing voters happier
Sums up this thread really 😉
Right wing voters less tolerant of other people's values in other ways perhaps?
Yes. He might have a chance if it weren't for the likes of binners and the media portraying him as some kind of raging communist imbecile.His stance is let's sit down and work out how to help people. That's something I can vote for tbh.
But it's not his stance
It may be the words that come out of his mouth, but few people believe it, his 'body language' for want of a better phrase is still where it always was, and he was always on (and revelled in being on) the left of the Labour Party (even when the LP were far more left than it was in the Blair years) - he is still bound dogmatically into far left positions on unilateralism and nationalisation, and whenever anyone asks him a question that realistically requires a centrist answer, they get a mealy mouthed reply full of caveats and platitudes.
The electorate on the whole realise that leopards don't really change their spots, and thus Corbyn remains perpetually in the bracket of 'loony left' in the minds eye of the majority, a belief only perpetuated by the people he has chosen to surround himself with
Right wing voters less tolerant of other people's values in other ways perhaps?
What, polite silent tsking and eyebrow raising, but will still offer you a cup of tea and a biscuit ?????? 😉
he is still bound dogmatically into far left positions on unilateralism and nationalisation,
JC already committed to £76m to bring the GBBO back to the BBC
Wonder what he will do when he realises that Channel Four is public sector as well 😀
Mind you, it could be a good presenting opportunity for those two nice Labour Supporting lads from Newcastle that he doesn't recognise
@outofbreath yes interesting discussion and comparison with Obama's campaign. This was a key comment for me;
"Of the 100 seats with the lowest turnout Labour already hold 91 of them"
Corbyn appeals to a subset of the already converted and to those further left who are well aware that AWL (etc) cannot possibly win but they might infiltrate the Labour and win a few seats, 125 seats for them is a great result as right now they have zero and the Greens 1.
@big_n_daft yup that left/right tolerence comment is exactly how I see it, it reflects STW, it reflects what I see in demonstrations / protests etc, its the left who are throwing petrol bombs.
I've posted so many time that Front Nationale are winnig many votes from the Socialists and the Communists, look around Calais/ex-mining areas of the North and the South around Marseilles. FN hav many policies appealing to the working class and of course there are many proudly French people who have previously voted for Hollande. [b]It's just like the white van man with the flag of St George.[/b]
Labour need to really understand why they have been decimated in Scotland (and it's not Trident or Iraq) and think that through wrt the wider UK
It's just like the white van man
Or the black cab driver?
Labour need to really understand why they have been decimated in Scotland (and it's not Trident or Iraq) and think that through wrt the wider UK
They were partially decimated because they failed to provide their own narrative on IndyRef, like the Lib Dems. They were also partly decimated because the SNP provided a more workable centre-left political vision than either NuLab or the colluding Lib Dems.
Excuse second post.
Corbyn is absolutely NOT a listening politician. He is a politician who wants others to listen to HIM. He is a protest politician who campaigns against things much more than he campaigns for things. The Loach "conversation documentary" was a room full of people saying what Corbyn wanted to hear. Over 30 years he didn't listen to the Labour Party and accept the collective view, he ploughed his own furrow. He doesn't listen to critism he just ignores it. He didn't listen to or deal with allegations of anti-semitism, he tried to cover it up and not only that he made Shami a life-peer and will put her into the Shadow Cabinet. Keep the Red Flag Flying Comrade.
I have absolutely no doubt that the Tories have a raft of "back catelogue" material on Corbyn about which they are keeping schtum (a fine Yiddish term) and which will overwhelm him should he still be leader in the run up to a 2020 GE. The PLP understand this.
Corbyn is absolutely NOT a listening politician. He is a politician who wants others to listen to HIM. He is a protest politician who campaigns against things much more than he campaigns for things.
sounds a lot like someone else.........
[img] 
[/img]
Or the black cab driver?
@john if you mean the ethnically ****stani (I think) taxi driver from the EU referendum piece with Ress-Mogg and Jess then yes just like him. He thought there where too many immigrants
@kimbers - point of view really. Farage campaigned for an Independent UK, it's in the name. Like him or loath him he has achieved his politcal goals with spectacular success, we had a Referendum and "he" won it. We are leaving the EU. As a supposedly fringe one issue party it has been an extra-ordinary result.
His stance is let's sit down and work out how to help people. That's something I can vote for tbh.
Wouldn't it be nice, if everyone was nice?
The problem is that his ideas of helping people sound worthy, but are largely unworkable, uncosted, and therefore unachievable. Wouldn't your vote be better placed with someone who had realistic policies? Not sure if that party exists mind you.
Corbyn is absolutely NOT a listening politician. He is a politician who wants others to listen to HIM blah blah blah
It's pretty hilarious reading all this rubbish from you lot cos you haven't got the first clue what this is about. You think it's all about Corbyn and some cult of personality, and revel in ridiculous jokes about loony lefties and trotskyists, and you couldn't be further from the truth. I've no idea how this is all going to end but I'm sure it'll be a lot different to what you think.
LOL
*shakes fist at sky
His stance is let's sit down and work out how to help people
Except when he doesn't like the collective answer and then he briefs against it e.g. nukes.
He's not interested in discussion, compromise and collective decision making, he's only interested in his and John's views, and those that agree with them.
He's not interested in discussion, compromise and collective decision making, he's only interested in his and John's views, and those that agree with them.
Is this a 'well I read it in the paper so it must be true' opinion disguised as a fact?
I've no idea how this is all going to end but I'm sure it'll be a lot different to what you think.
We know how it's going to shape up:
JC will win the Leadership tomorrow. He'll cobble together a shadow cabinet and ministers of 3rd rate performers. He'll deselect moderate MPs and replace them with ideologically sound candidates. He'll pack the NEC with ideologically sound supporters. He'll lose in 2020 and hand over the reins to a ideologically sound MP in a safe Labour seat from his 'new intake'. The Labour party will just fizzle out over a few years.
How else can it possibly work out?
Re black cab/white van axis (that's black cab, also known as Hackney carriage). Drivers are usually white, rarely left wing (I know exceptions.) This is why they say never explain ..)
sounds a lot like someone else.........
And tell me, how successful was Nigel, or his party, at the last general election?
And tell me, how successful was Nigel, or his party, at the last general election?
100pc successful.
Their sole objective was to trigger a referendum. They spooked one of the main parties into offering a referendum and it even went their way.
There can't be many politicians and parties in history who achieved *everything* they wanted.
I cannot believe you accused them of thinking 😉I've no idea how this is all going to end but I'm sure it'll be a lot different to what you think.
Farage proves it
hugely popular policy (see referendum result) but utterly unelectable
go figure 😉
Maybe like Farage Corbyn's objective is to just get the Tories to implement his key policies, no need to bet elected or do anything so Bourgeoise as being PM
nah the referendum just proves that most MPs (and pollsters) dont understand the electorate
JC will win the Leadership tomorrow. He'll cobble together a shadow cabinet and ministers of 3rd rate performers. He'll deselect [s]moderate[/s]right wing MPs who should really be tories and replace them with [s]ideologically sound [/s]candidates more at home in a left-of-centre workers' party. He'll pack the NEC with [s]ideologically sound[/s] supporters more at home in a left-of-centre workers' party. He'll lose narrowly in 2020 having shifted the political narrative hugely back towards the centre and hand over the reins to a [s]ideologically sound MP[/s] better salesman/woman in a safe Labour seat from his 'new intake'. The [s]Labour[/s] Tory party will just fizzle out over a few years, having failed to deliver on a referendum result only a minority of their own party wanted.
That's how else it could work out. Unless you want to keep playing the man, rather than the ball, and ensure your own prediction becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
@zokes from all the info I have seen the majority of Conservative voters supported Brexit and a bit more than half the Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit.
@dazh I'd be delighted to see Corbyn lead Labour into a 2020 General Election. That would fulfil the objective I would have written into the £3 form had I gone ahead with that;
"I wish to give the UK electorate the chance to vote on a firmly left wing manifesto"
@zokes from all the info I have seen the majority of Conservative voters supported Brexit and a bit more than half the Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit.
I didn't say voters, I said members (but meant parliamentary members)
Ok, true in both cases though just less clear cut for MPs. I am certain if the PM had campaigned Leave Tory MPs would have been 90/10 Leave.
The problem is that his ideas of helping people sound worthy, but are largely unworkable, uncosted, and therefore unachievable
That's what the working out part is about. When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything. What I do have is the ability to find a solution.
Why do we expect the former behaviour from politicians? Madness.
Maybe if he hadn't spent all his time having fighting people who wanted him to resign despite being elected he'd have been able to work on policy. The PLP really have ****ed this up.
When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything.
Did you miss day one of consultant school?
If you'd been working for the same client for over 30 years I'd expect you to know pretty much all the answers.
TBH even when I work with a new client i'd be expecting to have a blooming good understanding of things after a month.
That's what the working out part is about. When I go to a client, I don't swan in and pretend to know everything. What I do have is the ability to find a solution.
And if the clients senior management team says that the solution you've proposed is proper bobbins and will lose them loads of customers, do you:
a) listen to their concerns, try to allay them, reconsider your solution and try to present something that is acceptable
b) try and get the client to sack their entire senior management team and replace them with your mates from down the pub?
...and to reassure the client that you're not a bit of a leftie you say "I am a Marxist".
I would expect a company's boss to know all about their product and what it offers etc.
There may be an option c) above. That being your company folds as you cannot got enough people to buy your product, no matter how good it is as you just dont have the ability to sell it.