**** me
I've been watching this unfold with interest and can now only conclude that at least a coupla posters are hardcore, died in the wool, intellectual ****ing nazis!!!
**** you ****s
You're very shouty, Yunki.
Usually about the same time in the evening. Is it happy hour? 😉
Also....is this Godwin's, or has that already occurred in the last 230 pages?
outofbreath - MemberThanks for posting Momentum Minutes.
How is it known that 25k new members are from SWP etc? Is it from a question on the joining/supporting form?
I don't genuinely know what you are referring to, I don't think there's anything in the minutes about the SWP, and the SWP don't have 25k members anyway, maybe 2.5k members in total.
And yes you are asked if you are a member of any other party. Obviously people could trying lying but as you probably know the SWP, for example, are very vocal, any local SWP members would be known to other local activists, you tend to meet each other in the course of your activities - local issues, trade unions, etc.
"You're very shouty, Yunki."
To be honest, this thread has a similar effect on me too. Especially the nonsense about wanting a Ducati when all Yunki was talking about was being able to do a proper day's work in order to be able to feed his family. Just utterly missing the ****ing point.
Really clod hopper? Is that what you drew from my comment? Here you go i was using my lack of true want or need for a Ducati V my true want and need for a nice home and quality of life I. E in this country if you truly want/need something you can get it regardless of the horrible thieving ****s who run the place.
Momentum Code of Conduct etc
And according to their own rules and code of conduct, UKIP don't tolerate racism...
Ok Yunki and clod hopper how much do you think the average worker outside London should be paid for a proper days work? Genuine question? What is an acceptable living wage
And according to their own rules and code of conduct, UKIP don't tolerate racism...
And they actually have thrown people out, maybe not enough, but still action not words
Still waiting for our Croydon Communist and momentum activist to give us any numbers on Momentum disciplinary actions, or all members political saints and as Len alleged all the nastiness from UK security services in a false flag operation?
big_n_daft - Member
Or is it all messaging by our Croydon Communist and fellow travellers
How interminably dull
But accepted this time
Has she?
With Jezza consolidating control, it provided much better context for studying both the cuculidae and Aaaronovitch families - just finished "Party Animals" - the latter bringing a few smiles to the face when reading this thread. Aaaronovitch's reference to Freud's "narcissism of minor difference," in the context of LW sectarianism was particularly apt...."our similarities meant that any disagreement at all was unbearable." 😉
Party Animals was Lucy Kellaways recommendation in the FT's book for summer. Actually interesting but like its subject matter ultimately disappointing.
Varoufakis' "And the weak suffer what they must? Europe, Austerity (the real version) and the threat to Global Stability" is much better and a good read
"There should be no personal hostility and nobody should feel intimidated at any time."
I can't reconcile this with JC calling for people who didn't vote the way he wanted in '81 to be made to feel some discomfort for a few months.
Varoufakis is hilarious. He plays a significant role in wrecking his own economy then does a massive tour of the UK telling us we should do all the things that wrecked his economy!
? As the successor to Jeremy Corbyn's Leadership Campaign, Momentum promotes the values that Jeremy popularised during the campaign, of fair, honest debate focused on policies, not personal attacks or harassment.
Oh to be the member of a political organisation that has to remind its members not to attack others.
I bet Cheltenham Conservative Ladies Club has "don't shank other bitches" in its Code of Conduct.
I bet Cheltenham Conservative Ladies Club has "don't shank other bitches" in its Code of Conduct.
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12009338/Tory-party-accused-of-failing-to-act-on-complaints-of-sexual-harassment.html ]harassment is more of a sexual nature in the tory party.[/url]
Varoufakis is hilarious. He plays a significant role in wrecking his own economy then does a massive tour of the UK telling us we should do all the things that wrecked his
I beg to differ....while I disagree with many of the large logic jumps and assumptions he makes, his account of the crisis is very interesting not least the insights it gives into the mindset of the Euro elite.
There were many players involved in Greece's crisis. To suggest that I was the fault of only one of them requires a level of myopia that would keep spec savers in business for ever!
"I beg to differ...."
It did strike me that making an ill informed comment on him to someone who had just read a book by him was dumb, but I just missed the 10 min edit deadline when I tried to remove my statement.
There are a couple of good TV/Radio interviews with him around outofbreath.
Worth having a listen. It was quite interesting to hear his case for UK Remain.
Welcome back tmh. IMF IEO report was interesting / a statement of the bleeding obvious. Greece should have defaulted and exited the euro in 2010, they still have the same choice today. Varoufakis wants everone else's cake and to eat it too. Eurozne and their IMF stooges are naturally protecting their own countries - their currency has failed, thats a big deal and not something they want to own up to. Best to kick that can down the road and let it be someone else's problem.
Ernie those momentum rules / code of conduct are prety weak, if you breach them you [b]may[/b] be suspended. The Labour Party didn't even properly vet Naz Shah's social media history and she's a sitting MP. We know the checks and monitoring they are doing on Momentum members - zero. Plus I am sure the Momentum trolls have multiple accounts to disguise their hardcore abuse.
Ernie those momentum rules / code of conduct are prety weak, if you breach them you may be suspended. The Labour Party didn't even properly vet Naz Shah's social media history and she's a sitting MP.
It poses the question that if you set up an organisation with its own name, rules and membership (that is not restricted to LP members) at what point does it become a prohibited party within a party?
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Welcome back tmh
Thank you - haven't been away, just passively observing in amusement! And trying to nail three interesting books - two of Varoufakis and the Aaronovitch one!
Greece should have defaulted and exited the euro in 2010, they still have the same choice today. Varoufakis wants everone else's cake and to eat it too.
Default - yes of course, everyone including V knows that the basic debt dynamics don't work. But the whole exercise has not been about Greece, it has been about protecting the creditors in an appaling display of economic and political assymetry and vandalism. On that point I agree wholeheartedly with V and therefore disagree with your conclusion about the cake! But we have different opinions on who is to blame for the Greek crisis after all!!
Eurozne and their IMF stooges are naturally protecting their own countries - their currency has failed, thats a big deal and not something they want to own up to. Best to kick that can down the road and let it be someone else's problem
V, you and I would however all agree on that point. We would differ in what to do about it. I would prefer not to deal with it in the context of isolationisn and antagonisation of our closest trading partners. But hey, ho....we reap what we so.
Anyway there is/was a thread about that. Back to Cuba coffee mornings and choosing the best of a bad bunch to lead the HM Opposition.
And I want to read two more chapters of the Global Minotaur!!
I so unbelievably fed up with spin.
It seems to have gone into overdrive in the past few months.
I hadn't heard this story, but it seems that nothing can happen in politics without it being misrepresented from all sides:
"I reckon the personal bullying Jamba is subjected to is utterly out of order and the excuses people make for it (he likes it really/he deserves it) are the text book excuses of the bully."
At first, I thought this. I soon realised that it wasn't actually bullying, just people sick of Jamba's revisionism, propagation of lies and misinformation, and downright ignorance. Because in the real world, such behaviour is dangerous. And leads to fear, mistrust and hatred. Jamba has it within his power to change his behaviour, become more self aware and educate himself with facts. If he choses not to do so, then he should expect to be challenged.
I dont think you can bully someone by simply pointing out they are factually incorrect.
The problem is he does not care and the folk realise this so just take the piss with jambyfact and the like- what else can you do when he does not care about facts?
I am sure sometimes it oversteps the mark and i am sure i have done it but you just cannot spout incorrect "facts" and think you wont be challenged/mocked/ridiculed
such behaviour is dangerous
Why? Is the Internet going to burst out of your screen and eat you or something?
And leads to fear, mistrust and hatred
How about taking ownership of your own emotions?
"I dont think you can bully someone by simply pointing out they are factually incorrect"
Do you that instead of the Ad homs, then. Posting jpegs aimed personally at Earnie and the tirades of personal stuff about J debunk nothing.
"Why? Is the Internet going to burst out of your screen and eat you or something?"
Notice how I said 'in the [i]real[/i] world'. Spreading lies, misinformation and distorted facts can, and is, dangerous. It can and has led to genocide and war.
"How about taking ownership of your own emotions?"
What is that even supposed to mean? 😕
as noted challenging him is futile as he does not care that his facts are untrue hence the piss taking - you think folk did not try and they went straight to ad hom? You cannot debunk someone who uses facts that are wrong and does not care- its like trying to debunk David Icke
Anyway enough navel gazing lets get back to the thread
What is that even supposed to mean?
I have written something that challenges what you said simply to elicit a response in you for shits and giggles is usually what his posts mean
Ninfan means almost nothing he writes he just wants a reaction
IMHO shame as he is often well informed, well researched and he is a bright chap to boot
It can and has led to genocide and war.
So if people stop calling Jamba names, millions will die?
What is that even supposed to mean?
That feeling emotions of fear or hatred over something that someone says on an Internet forum is more reflective on you as a person than it is of them.
sense and comprehension are clearly secondary considerations when goading for a reaction 😉
I have to confess to actually liking ninfan despite generally refusing to engage on here with him
No you don't.
as noted challenging him is futile as he does not care that his facts are untrue hence the piss taking - you think folk did not try and they went straight to ad hom? You cannot debunk someone who uses facts that are wrong and does not care- its like trying to debunk David Icke
Which doesn't even attempt to justify the ad homs aimed at Earnie in this thread which was the original point I made.
People bully either because they're spiteful inadequates or because they're can't defeat the actual argument or usually both. End of.
They always use the same handful of excuses for it as you are doing now. (Google the excuses of bullies.)
There's no 'bullying' on this thread. Get a grip ffs. 🙄
[i]The Labour leader’s team has a bunker mentality, and their genius has been to extend that bunker to accommodate tens of thousands of their followers. Within that bubble, every failure becomes a victory.[/i]
The right wing press appear to be at it again 😆
http://www.newstatesman.com/2016/07/jeremy-corbyn-and-paranoid-style
[quote=ninfan ]No you don't.
See i told you he was bright and just wanted a reaction
Very funny though 😆
Anyway enough navel gazing lets get back to the thread
I think I prefer the naval gazing! 🙄
Yes you have spoken its definitely the end of. No one likes bullies so I dont really see what the point of that is. The real point is anyone being bullied.People bully either because they're spiteful inadequates or because they're can't defeat the actual argument or usually both. End of
Yes you did not insult me there and you defeated the argument and you are neither spiteful nor inadequate ....Oh the irony 😕They always use the same handful of excuses for it as you are doing now. (Google the excuses of bullies.)
You are free to disagree with the reasons stated and ignore them, you are free to get rude and personal whilst explaining only bullying inadequates do it and i am free to take the piss and laugh at the irony,
The reason he gets the piss taken out of him is for the reasons stated
No one is bullied on here as the mods dont allow it and I dont think the forum would in general but its pretty intolerant of those who dont use facts and just make stuff up that is wrong.
Report posts and get it dealt with if you see bullying. Its not acceptable anymore than calling folk bullies is a way to negate their arguments.
He ignores facts so folk take the piss.
You can blame who you like for this but its not bullying.
End of sidebar for me as i think discussing it like this may be a little unfair on him.
This .....
Corbyn need make no such compromise, which is his whole appeal. Those who expect him to step down after a general election defeat, or to compromise with the rest of the party to achieve greater success, have completely failed to understand what they’re dealing with. For Corbyn and his followers there is no compromise, only purity, and a Red Labour party with 50 MPs is better than a centrist party with 400. That is the reality of the movement that Labour and the left are facing, and it is catastrophic.
that is just bobbins
from the article
Corbyn’s time as Labour leader has been marked by an extraordinary surge of paranoia and conspiracy theory on the left.
Yes how could he come to the conclusion that forces are out to get him...there is literally no evidence to support that view now is there 🙄 The shadow cabinet and his colleagues definitely did not conspire against him, definitely did not leak to the press and definitely did not do all they could to usurp the wishes of the membership...paranoid tit isn't he 🙄
TBH its frothing nonsense and I stopped reading there as its Binners level of hysteria wrapped up in a hatchet job of bile.has led some to compare Corbynism to a cult or a religious movement.
Lots of folk want to do this cult of personality shite. I have yet to hear it from a corbyn supporter just from those who oppose him and want to maintain the slurs and allusions to "stalinism" hard left BS
There is plenty to criticise without making things up
New interview. Owen Jones.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jul/29/jeremy-corbyn-im-very-optimistic-video-interview
edit: 45min(!) version here
"you defeated the argument"
I'd love to take credit, but your argument was defeated many thousands of years before either of us were born.
TMH aggravating our neighbours ! They had a chance to offer Cameron sufficient concessions to win the Referendum and they declined with a "gallic shrug". The euro is their problem not ours. The very public self criticism of the IMF is devastating. I cannot see any way they will lend another cent, nor should they until there are some very fundamental changes (eg two or three level eurozone, full banking union by level, joint and several liability by level ? Perhaps even a retrun to individual currencies althoigh I imagine France, Germany, Belgium, Lux and Holland will sort out a eueo level 1 zone)
That feeling emotions of fear or hatred over something that someone says on an Internet forum is more reflective on you as a person than it is of them.
Ninfan, thanks but you are wasting your time. Leopards and spots. It amuses the hell out of me anyway about how much humble pie they must be choking on, thread after thread, issue after issue. I did say I thought Brexit Referendum would be their chance to find me on the losing side of an argument but even that has worked out my way.
Abuse and trolling from the left which we see here is reflective of wider society. We see the same from Momentum. They are unable to keep themselves in check and the agressive behaviour just keeps flowing. The bullying which exists on STW is entirely consistent to that which Labour MPs are currently suffering.
You still confident he is not just a troll after that reply 😉
Dont forget to say you never do the personal Jamby you missed that out
PS when ninfan has your back things are really truly desperate- no one would cite him though it is very very funny- even he chortled at you - the left version was when TJ agreed with you
definitely did not leak to the press
Because JC nor any of his supporters, nor anyone working in his office have ever leaked anything negative about PLP members ever, have they......
