Jeremy Corbyn

Next GE forecast
Tories 345
Labour 185 (optomistic)
UKIP 30
SNP 50
Lib dems 15

outofbreath - Member

"However a Labour leader can't simply 'hand over' their job to whoever they fancy when they don't want to do it anymore."

Gordon Brown.

Labour MPs have learned their lesson, in the unlikely event Labour survives as a mainstream party the MPs will be a lot more careful about who they nominate in future.

"I believe that there is a proposition to amend the rules at this coming conference to reduce the candidate nomination threshold to 5%"

LOL, how could that possibly go wrong! Nothing like learning from your mistakes.
Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

Oh OK outofbreath, the membership which gave Corbyn the largest mandate in Labour Party history will allow Owen Smith to simply handover the leadership to a mysterious "potential GE winner". Dream on mate, you obviously still haven't figured out the significance of Corbyn winning last September. Presumably you think it was a fluke that he won more votes than all the other candidates put together, and that an arch-Blairite like David Miliband will be welcomed with open arms.

oldmanmtb - Member
Ernie a serious non troll question, assuming the Labour Party morphs into this new fundamentalist socialist organisation how do you think they will win a general election I. E. How will it gain sufficient seats to form a government?

Good luck with that one, oldman. ernie doesn't like that question, he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

Next GE forecast

Tories 345
Labour 15 (optimistic)
I can't believe it's not new labour 170
UKIP 30
SNP 50
Lib dems 15

he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions.

Good luck with that one, oldman. ernie doesn't like that question, he's too concerned with the goings on in the senior dorm where all the junior wevolutionaries are on the point of chucking out those wotten pwefects.

No, he is sat in a dingy pub in Croydon nursing a pint he can't stand the taste of desperate for a decent prosecco, discussing the success of the Corbyn phenomenon with his fellow travellers relieved that the internecine warfare between the Trot's, Maoist, Leninists etc is over and they can rejoice whilst checking their privilege and sneering at the newbies. They sometimes stretch to a second pint when they start to talk about revival of the CPGB to it's heady heights whenever they happened

Yay bullying, you Tories are more left wing than I thought!

assuming the Labour Party morphs into this new fundamentalist socialist organisation how do you think they will win a general election

At best it will GAS and focus a bit more on social justice and move a little to the left- I dont think he will be overthrowing the monarchy, nationalising everything and handing power to worker collectives.
I may as well call Theresa May a proto fascist it just ludicrous. By all means dislike Corbyn but FFS actually accurately describe what he stands for instead of making shit up.

If you must attack ernie do you have to draw such stupid tabloid caricatures whilst doing it?

Jesus this thread. Its essentially throwing insults masquerading as a debate.

So here's Owen Smith's 20 policies:

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5798849de4b06d7c426e0a8d

Wonder what the minimum legal contract hours will be? 1hr per week? 10? 37?

Ignore them comrades, they're just being horrid.

And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions.

But keep replying to my posts.

And of course it's just "question". Singular. By me and others. Which you obviously have no answer to because it's much easier to go on wiffling about the internal self mutilations of the dying Labour Party. Isn't it. ernie.

[img] [/img]

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/27/uk-joins-greece-at-bottom-of-wage-growth-league-tuc-oecd ]Meanwhile: in other news the Corbyn front bench has either missed, or haven't bothered commenting on[/url]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/08/labour-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-search-for-the-partys-henry-vii ]Media bias letter to Guardian[/url]

A letter to the Guardian about media bias against Corbyn. Signed by 100ish university bods (second letter down)

@binners: FWIW IMO it's better to play the ball, not the man.

[quote=outofbreath ]@binners: FWIW IMO it's better to play the ball, not the man.

See also "jambabollocks" "artwork".

@binners its been a straightforward choice these past 7 years, more jobs at lower wages or more unemployment. Would the TUC like French and Spanish levels of unemployment. You'll find me argue that unlimited EU freedom of movement has depressed wages too, with a relatively strong economy, English language and non-contributory benefits (unlike France and Germany where you have to pay in first to get out) all all strong pull factors.

@crk if people on the political "further left" actually bought a few newspapers perhaps there would be one which supported Corbyn. As it is the Guardian which is the closest we have understands you have to be elected and electable to achieve anything

"See also "jambabollocks" "artwork"."

I reckon the personal bullying Jamba is subjected to is utterly out of order and the excuses people make for it (he likes it really/he deserves it) are the text book excuses of the bully.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you Jammers. I'm just raising the point that you'd think news like that, which was front page on todays Guardian, might be something the Labour Party (clue's in the title) might have something to say about.

Apparently not.

Again

This 'kindler' gentler' form of politics, looks to me increasingly like being totally disengaged from whats happening around you. Still... there will be another Momentum rally to address along soon. So you can pontificate about unilateral nuclear disarmament in the common room, surrounded by nodding dogs

Mr Woppit - Member

"And right there you reveal why I ignore your questions".

But keep replying to my posts.

I reply to your posts if I feel like replying. I won't answer your 'questions' simply because you demand that I do. I choose what I post - not you. It's not complicated.

So Owen Smith stumbles at the first hurdle - his much publicized Orgreave launch :

[url= http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14646152.Owen_Smith_apologises_for__inappropriate__claim_Labour_should__smash__Theresa_May__back_on_her_heels_/ ]Owen Smith apologises for 'inappropriate' claim Labour should 'smash' Theresa May 'back on her heels'[/url]

I particularly liked this :

[i][b] Hours later Mr Smith backtracked, with his spokesman stating: "It was off script and on reflection it was an inappropriate choice of phrase and he apologises for using it."

The former shadow work and pensions secretary earlier vowed to end austerity as part of a "socialist revolution", with a new wealth tax on the rich and increased spending on the NHS. [/i][/b]

Backtracking and talk of a "socialist revolution" all in one day.

So, I think what we're saying then is that the Tories will be winning the next GE then.

An apology for inappropriate langauge, already differentiating himself from Corbyn who is so stubborn he never apolgises for anything no matter how offensive.

Nobody answered my question .... how are the old new labour actually going to motivate enough grass roots support to win an election. Not complicated....

I think it's like Brexit no *ing plan no *ing idea let's just moan.... bearing in mind this comes from me a life long socialist trade union member, piss poor working class origins not your middle ground or Tory *wit
I am watching the Tory party laying out its policy to dismantle the human rights of this country's poor and you momentum/Corbynites are fiddling while Rome burns - crack on folks your *ed

what's your alternative then oldman?
what are your suggestions for steering the opposition onto a better course?

I'm not convinced that sitting there moaning and farting like you and binners is gonna get anybody anywhere

I think you may have to let this run its course. This may well include a devastating 2020 defeat.

So, I think what we're saying then is that the Tories will be winning the next GE then.

No one can predict what will happen in 4 years time, after all who predicted a month ago that the Blairites would launch a coup doomed to failure with no plan and not even a candidate with any chance of winning ?

But yes, if there was a general election next week I don't think that you need to be an exceptional political pundit to figure out that the Tories would easily win. So well done the PLP.

Still, I'm sure that Tony Blair is quite pleased with that. Corbyn becoming PM is his worse nightmare.

We'll have to wait and see what happens next.

Oldman I think you know the answer. The Labour party is now fundamentally and ideologically split. I don't think for one minute that actually winning an election is even high on Corbyns agenda if it ever was. It seems to me that they would be quite happy entrenching their position and using that platform to quite rightly complain about the nasty Tories and how bad things are and will get without ever being in any position to have to put any of their ideas and solutions to the test. They would sh!t themselves if they got elected. Which ever party is in power needs a strong opposition to bring the goverment to account. On current form that is not going to happen.

You'll find me argue that unlimited EU freedom of movement has depressed wages too,

Nobody answered my question .... how are the old new labour actually going to motivate enough grass roots support to win an election. Not complicated....

The SDP did quite well initially, the problem the current Labour PLP has is that the alternative leaders are all 10 years from wanting to step up and even then won't have the gravitas of the "gang of four". Without decent leadership no one will follow (although Corbyn is the exception that proves the rule)

And to follow up my above comment here is a reminder what the situation was before the PLP mounted this attempted coup :

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/new-poll-puts-labour-ahead-of-tories-for-first-time-since-jeremy-corbyn-became-leader-a6937926.html ]New poll puts Labour ahead of Tories for first time since Jeremy Corbyn became leader[/url]

[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/election-results-2016-tories-lose-7923335 ]Election results 2016: Tories lose four times more council seats than Labour as final votes are announced [/url]

[i][b]"And the Tories lost a further 10 seats in by-elections which did not feature in the overall count".

"Labour also won the Bristol mayoral election by a landslide on Saturday after coming from behind to oust independent George Ferguson".[/i][/b]

Plus of course they had won all the by-elections, all with increased majorities iirc.

There was a poll in one of the papers today can't remember which one but a fair percentage of labour voters would rather vote for Theresa May than Corbyn. The gap is widening. If May makes a fare stab of Brexit I can't see Labour getting back in for 10 yrs.

But yes, if there was a general election next week I don't think that you need to be an exceptional political pundit to figure out that the Tories would easily win. So well done the PLP.

Still, I'm sure that Tony Blair is quite pleased with that. Corbyn becoming PM is his worse nightmare.

And there we have the narrative from the Croydon Communist and his fellow travellers already setting the scene for why they were robbed of power

Love the mention of the bogey man for added fizz

The eurozone is going to have a major crises sometime before 2020. As such Brexit is going to look absolutely Golden. Tory landslide in 2020. What"s likely thereafter is the UK strategy of refocusing globally and away from Europe is going to look better and better. Hence another win in 2025. Beyond there hard to tell, all guesswork. So Labour may have a shot in 2030

Are you able to make a credible case for why this current state of affairs is not harming the labour party electorally?
I know you want to be all playground and name calling but honestly you have forgotten to actually make sense whilst doing this.
Just saying

Are you able to make a credible case for why this current state of affairs is not harming the labour party electorally?
I know you want to be all playground and name calling but honestly you have forgotten to actually make sense whilst doing this.
Just saying

Arguably labour's problem is that they didn't fail badly enough, and they will have a period akin to the Blair years for the conservatives whilst they try various leaders. Is this period harming Labour electorally? That depends on your perspective, in the long term probably not, the narrative will be shown to be false and new people will step forward to lead. The worst case for labour is that some else steps into their space as the SNP have done in Scotland so arguably the UKIP leadership election is more important to Labour than their own

The core issue is that the protestors have the stage at the moment, they are trying to create a new set of accepted behaviours that essentially exclude a lot of people; thought Blair was OK until Iraq, Tory, voted other than labour, green, SWP etc, Tory, don't like Corbyn, Tory. It's the twitter version of politics that aims to divide rather than unite. The followers of this new labour politics look for heresy rather than embracing different views.

I like many others change who they will vote for, there is no tribal loyalty to be abused, what is needed is a set of credible policies backed by a credible team. I don't see labour being able to get there for years as the natural uniters are not ready to step up.

"Are you able to make a credible case for why this current state of affairs is not harming the labour party electorally?"

It has killed them electorally. An opposition 6 years into an unpopular Government should have cleaned up in the local elections. Labour was on the losing Brexit side. The message on the doorstep is so bleak the MPs launched a desperate bid to get rid of JC with little hope of success.

....should have cleaned up in the local elections. Labour was on the losing Brexit side.

They did clean up in the local elections. Labour won 58 councils to the Tories 38 councils. Labour won 1,326 council seats to the Tories 842 seats. And a lot of it wasn't in natural Labour territory such as Woking and Tunbridge Wells. The message on the doorstep wasn't bleak, which of course is why the plotters did nothing after the local elections.

Labour were on the losing Brexit side, this is correct. The Tories, the LibDems, the SNP, and the Greens were also on the losing Brexit side.

In the case of the Tories they decided to replace their leader with someone who fought a very weak and unconvincing Remain campaign.

"They did clean up in the local elections."

They lost 11 seats 6 years into an unpopular government!

Yunki I have said this before, my soloution was to create jobs that paid very well with really good quality of life - if that's sitting about moaning then we all need to do some moaning. So my question to you and Ernie is how many good jobs/opportunities have you created? Also just for the record although the I am a business owner and major shareholder I pay myself the same salary as the rest of the people in the business - it's called social responsibility and as a country we need a shed load more grass roots social responsibility, the upper levels of politics ceased to fight for the working class after 1984 - stop whining about these *s get up and go out and improve one other persons life chances/opportunities/quality of life because I can guarantee those in power now and in future will not do this as they encourage this money driven bling orientated culture we live in that is simply focused on maximising profit. Trouble is Yunki most people (this might come as a suprise to your leftist ideal)don't give a * about the human being next to them when it comes to money Thatcher proved that beyond doubt - we the working class were destroyed in 1984 I was there I saw it first hand I watched "them" remove our pride, strength, unity and our communities in a matter of months and with all due respect to your new protest group we were much bigger and stronger and "they" did not have a fraction of the media or financial power they have now. Anyway in respect to this thread I will get my coat and see if I can create another job before Xmas.

In the case of the Tories they decided to replace their leader with someone who fought a very weak and unconvincing Remain campaign.

Ernie - Theresa May played a blinder. Stayed out of the way. Sat back and gave everyone else enough rope, and watched them assassinate each other, then stepped in to the vacuum she helped create to seize power. Then she has a night of the long knives, sacked the old guard, then stitched Boris (her main opponent) up like a kipper!

Talk about ruthless political manouvering. Oh, that the labour party had anyone possessing such consomethinge political skill? Fat chance! I almost feel sorry for Jezza - the accidental leader of the opposition. There by administrative error - she humiliated him at the first PMQ's. I'm sure you don't agree, but she did. Swatted him aside. He wasn't even a minor irritant. Expect plenty more of that. Bet she can't believe her luck. Depressingly.

oldmanmtb

only can I add the stipulation that I'd like enough pay and hours to be able to provide for my family, and enough free time to prevent myself from becoming ill 🙂

ernie_lynch - Member
So, I think what we're saying then is that the Tories will be winning the next GE then.
No one can predict what will happen in 4 years time, after all who predicted a month ago that the Blairites would launch a coup doomed to failure with no plan and not even a candidate with any chance of winning ?

But yes, if there was a general election next week I don't think that you need to be an exceptional political pundit to figure out that the Tories would easily win. So well done the PLP.

Fantastic. I knew we'd get there in the end.

Yes - the failure of the PLP to get rid of Comrade Clueless ensures the next glorious defeat.

My work here is done. 😀

Jesus Yunki!
"Gis a job"
"I would like enough hours"

No one will give you anything, I would like a new Ducati but not enough to work another 20 hours a week to get one FFS