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Resource based economy
Oh yeah of course..... Silly me! 🙄
I agree, RBE are completely unworkable under the current paradigm, but its an interesting concept non the less...
7 or 8 years ago i relentlessly took the piss out of Clive Lord (Greenpeace, Green Party) as he was calling for universal basic income, one of the first times i'd heard of the concept, i could see the merit, but money for nothing? C'mon!
But bit by bit my opinion was swayed, and not only me it would seem, as its been mentioned in mainstream media and a few political personalities, and has been trialed with some successes in some first and third world countries.
My point being, right now, it might sound like quackery and wishful thinking, but will it always be thus, and could some of the less way out concepts be considered for work alongside current econimics?
If you can't see that the remain "promises" and claims were just as much outright lies as the leave ones then you are demented
If you cannot see the difference between exaggeration of a genuine threat and an outright lie - £350 million pound cost all of it going to the NHS - both were outright lies- then you are deluded- If i need further proof Jamby is on your side there and that is like when TJ agrees with you but for the RW
We both know it was what we paid not what it cost us they presented it as the real cost which it was not as it ignored what we got back.perhaps you need to point your finger at the treasury for publishing it in the first place?
There was no way to save £350 million NONE as it was not the true cost and it was never going to the NHS.
How come we all knew it was BS without the CS. Blaming the CS for leave making shit up is pretty desperate even by your standardshow can we have a fact based argument when Leave where prevented from having access to the civil service to obtain information ?
Also worth noting ninfan blamed the CS for the figure and then we got this gem
it's the classic hypocrisy of the left.
Oh the irony
Enjoy your irrational circle jerk lads
Also worth noting ninfan blamed the CS for the figure
It is the officially published figure of total debits in U.K. Transactions with the EU, published on table 9.9 of the Treasury pink book.
Now, you can call it an exaggeration, you can call it a misrepresentation, but what you most definitely cannot call it is an outright lie.
they [u]presented it as[/u] the real cost
No, you interpreted it as. Maybe only stupid people interpreted it as this, because the majority didn't (as yougov showed)
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See, maybe you were just one of the stupid people Junky?
£350 million pound cost all of it going to the NHS
Where?
Another 'outright lie' that nobody made.
Or are you just exaggerating again? Is that what Jezza was doing on the train then, 'exaggerating for effect'? Is that OK now? All part of 'honest politics'?
Getting your knickers in a twist and we haven't even started the leaving process yet.
When can we expect that to happen? what are the plans? Please don't give us any of your bobbins as you both are very good at that (ninfan jambaliar) if you don't know just say so.
Don't give a toss, as long as we leave
Why should you expect a narrative as to the what, how or when? We're leaving, get used to it.
Yep thought so, pretty much sums the whole thing up.
I gave you my thoughts Pigface many times. They are thoughts and opinions, I know no more what our EU exit will look like in a year or two than I know who will be running the Labour Party.
Personally I would go Article 50 immediately, force the pace. Tailored trade deal with no budget contribution and no freedom of movement - if that's not agreed (vetoed by Eastern Europeans and the Commission who know that's political suicide for them) then no deal and WTO tarifs. We need to focus away from EU ASAP as its going to blow up over Greece / euro and experience a very deep recession, it's a time bomb we need get away from as quickly as possible.
I can see the merit of waiting till after French/German elections in 2017 (May and Sep I think) as we are going to be dealing with different people. Negotiations are a bit different if it's Le Penn and France willbe having their own Referendum on euro membership as a minimum and possibly EU membership. German could well see a significant change especially if Le Penn wins, it will have an impact there for AfD and others.
The Re-moaners critisim that somehow the Government was objliged to present a plan immediately is ridiculous, the Cameron Government only had one plan and that was to win. The Leave campaign was a campaign not a political party fighting an election with a manifesto. It was a single issue Referendum. Remain or Leave
FFS Ninfan even the question says leave presented it as £350 million
Self pwns are the best
Here they are abandoning the claim you termed an outright lie
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge
Farage saying it was mistake to make it
Would you like some more reality or is that enough for you to ignore?
Are you competing with jamby for the poster who lies about things the most?You are catching up fast to be fair
So were you just one of the stupid people then junky?
considering 86% didn't think it was an accurate figure then you must have been pretty thick to believe it.
If wasn't an outright lie, most people clearly accept it was an exaggeration - but you said that exaggeration to prove a point was OK, so I can't really see your problem.
I ask you again
£350 million pound cost [u]all of it going to the NHS[/u]
Where? Who said this?
Where? Who said this?
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Let's
Not we will
One is a suggestion, the other a proposal.
Is that too difficult for you? Or were you one of the 14% of thickos too?
So far it seems that the only people who thought the 350m figure was how much we [i]actually[/i] sent to the EU every week rather than an officially published [i]gross[/i] figure of how much we sent to the EU each week (the net figure being only a trifling 175 million pounds a week, mere pocket change) were remainders.
How thick and stupid must they feel now?
Plus - you can't see it in that photo but Bozzer has his fingers crossed so it doesn't count. Ha! Fooled you!!
I know quite a few people who voted Brexit. The NHS £££ thing wasn't a factor in their decision, they'd made their minds up well before any of that.
The interesting thing is STW is providing more Brexit debate than the Labour Party 😯
Of course JC recommended Article 50 be triggered immediately after the Referendum
In Berin's election we have extreme left at 19% and extreme right AfD at 12%, maybe that's the Momentum strategy to polarise the UK further.
One of the question Jambalaya has never answered is how many jobs and livelihoods he thinks its worth wrecking in pursuing this leave farce. I suspect this is all a bit of a game, a joke, to him and his ilk - it's not going to have any impact on you.
My main client base (hill farmers) are looking at 40% tariffs on lamb exports under WTO rules which will finish most of them off - they live quite a hand to mouth existence as it is and cant wait around for years whilst re-negotiations take place.
Isn't the WTO tariff on cars something like 9/10% why would Nissan or Toyota Honda continue to invest here as the point of entry into the EU and pay this extra when they can move production to the EU to avoid this - were already seeing a scaling back of Ford's investment in Bridgend and I can't believe that this farce wasn't at least in their minds eye at the time.
I think the most offensive thing about the brexiters (Jambalya Ninfan)is that they simply think of the Eurpoean project in terms of money when its about so much more than that. If nothing else there has been unprecedented period of peace amongst the member states of the Common Market/EEC/EU since the end of WW2 and on the basis that I have a good smattering of ancestors from both world war buried in various bits of the continent I for one feel that I have some skin in the game that is the EU project - my surviving grandfather who stayed on in Germany post WW2 as part of the allied occupation was firmly of the view that what he had fought for was not only to defeat Nazism but also put an end to the possibility of future conflicts and hence his strong support for the European project and given the shitiness of what he and his generation went through (he was there on the ground and saw some hideous sights) who am I to second guess him.
To remind the brexiteers the objectives of the Union are:
•an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers ;
•an internal market where competition is free and undistorted;
•sustainable development, based on balanced economic growth and price stability, a highly competitive social market economy, aiming at full employment and social progress, and a high level of protection and improvement of the quality of the environment;
•the promotion of scientific and technological advance;
•the combating of social exclusion and discrimination, and the promotion of social justice and protection, equality between women and men, solidarity between generations and protection of the rights of the child;
•the promotion of economic, social and territorial cohesion, and solidarity among Member States.
I am not sure what the brexiters can find offensive about that. I find being called a 're-moaner' offensive - it my right to continue to not accept the result of a referendum that was based on lies and to continue to campaign to remain within the EU. Do you know what, if Greece does go pop and has be rebuilt I don't care - where still better off within the EU (and closer within) with the possibility of fixing it than without. We already have zero hours Amazon workers in Swansea sleeping in bus shelters so as to avoid the possibility of missing a shift - no doubt that the free trading world that Ninfan and Jambalaya aspire to post EU but the thought of that as the future is not something that makes me jump for joy.
Nipper to quote Ninfan he couldn't give a toss.
+1
My main client base (hill farmers) are looking at 40% tariffs on lamb exports under WTO rules which will finish most of them off - they live quite a hand to mouth existence as it is and cant wait around for years whilst re-negotiations take place.
UK exports sheep meat 2015 - 79,400 tonnes
UK imports sheep meat 2015 - 92,800 times
UK exports beef 2015 - 100,500 tonnes
UK imports beef 2015 - 268,400 tonnes
Hmm, doesn't read much like an impending disaster for farmers does it Nipper?
Ninfan why do you bother, you don't give a toss.
Pigface earlier:
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It does if your selling Welsh Lamb as a premium product.
Premium product when only 60% of it meets market class?
Nipper I have posted numerous time short term Brexit is negative for me financially. Its a medium / long term game where I firmly believe we will be [b]much better off.[/b] You really need to get yoir head round how economically weak Europe is and the scale of catastrophe that is the euro. All the intrnational organisations and the EU wanted us to stay to help prop it up. No thanks,
Farmers as far as I am aware where very pro Brexit. Are we net exporters of lamb, I very much doubt it. Produce and sell for the UK market.
Cars we are a massive net buyer, we are Germany's third largest market globally. There will be a deal on cars. If there is not the Japanese have a very big vested interest in not p.ssing off such a valuable client market as the UK. Whilst pro EU like to tak about the size of the "single market" most of those people are quite poorly off. What is important is the richer countries, ie us.
Ha ha glad you caught my best side, now back to you not giving a toss X
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"political activity that is fun, engaging and child friendly"
Wonder if there's a uniform....
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How come these things never have a science or engineering section? I'm not anti art or music etc. but for the UK to thrive then science and engineering will need to be big drivers.
Why do I imagine the uncool mum in About a Boy being your typical single mum Corbyn / Momentum supporter?
Wonder if there's a uniform....
CFH outraged at lack of black brogues.
That Momentum Kids sounds a bit sinister - in particular the same arguments as faith schools apply - kids should be given a broad education in politics and then make their minds up when they are more mature, not be indoctrinated into something based on what their parents (and momentum) think are good ideas.
"political activity that is fun, engaging and child friendly"
Sounds a lot more fun than when I used to drag my kids on trades union marches against austerity. There's nothing wrong with indoctrinating your kids. From an early age I drummed into my kids two things, that everything was the fault of Margaret Thatcher, and the tories are evil. It's become a bit of a running joke now as whenever anything goes wrong my 12 year old asks if it was Margaret Thatcher's fault.
There's nothing wrong with indoctrinating your kids ... tories are evil
I am hoping that's tongue in cheek, however I do have a niggling worry. Hardly open, libertarian or tolerant is it ? Aside from CFH's poster we could show similar from Germany in 1930's, Gaza or Raqqa ?
Austerity = financial responsibility. To be part of the euro its a requirement to be fiscally responsible (rules cheated by Greece of course).
Here is a hint for Labour supporters, anti-austerity platform will only reinforce the public's belief Labour lack financial credibility
Panorama tonight.
[b]Kinder Politiks[/b] remember!
Excellent
You really need to get yoir head round how economically weak Europe is and the scale of catastrophe that is the euro.
UK and EU growth rates currently very similar. Last time I checked we were neither a memeber of the Euro nor did we/do we have any responsibility to provide financial support to the Euro zone.
Farmers as far as I am aware where very pro Brexit
Oddly not the case
Whilst pro EU like to tak about the size of the "single market" most of those people are quite poorly off.
Simply untrue
Re austerity, this has never been an actual policy not does it equate to financial responsibility. Indeed in the current balance sheet recession, it is actually quite the reverse. Austerity was a myth that was used successfully to calm markets when their prime focus was in debt sustainability. From a policy perspective, it was quietly abandoned and the UK has run a fiscal policy that have been expansionary in both absolute and relative terms. This is one reason why the UK recovered relatively quickly. The Coalition and the Tories did the opposite of what they were claiming. This was more by accident than design though, but we had a lucky escape from those who thought it was a bright idea for governments to run or attempt to run surprises when the household and NFC sectors were doing the same thing. That is folly that demonstrated a lack of understanding of the type of recession that we were (are?) in.
In terms of irresponsibility, how many times have the Tories and Labour run fiscal surpluses in the past thirty years - at correct and incorrect times, this doesn't matter for now?
God, this is awful.
God, this is awful.
He exists?
But true, munro and the coronation this weekend means it will probably get worse - that is what you meant isn't it? After all, no one posts on an "awful thread" just for the sake of it do they?
I'll be honest, I'd come in here after avoiding it for months, just to see if it was a well reasoned discussion on the merits and failings of Corbyn (fwiw I'm a scientist and very much pro-Corbyn). It turns out it's just what I expected, and why I was avoiding it, the same four uber-right wingers railing about Brexit with a smattering of indefatigable remainers who should know better getting het up and arguing in circles ad-infinitum.
It really is the worst of this forum.
And obviously everything will get worse with Theresa May in charge, I'm glad you agree.
It really is the worst of this forum.
People shouldn't do themselves down - its a bad habit.
Not sure about Theresa - wasn't a fan before, made a sensible start since, we shall see. But since they and others dont understand the nature of the current economic weakness, I doubt that she will find the correct answers. Hence the less we see/hear of politicians the better.
Except for the current comedy acts - they are great
@munro if you read back you'll see it was the "lefties" who changed the subject from Corbyn onto Brexit. Most of the "lefties" have given up trying to defend Corbyn and I think @binners got fed up being attacked by them.
@tmh look back at prior posts inc from WelshFarmer, folks I spoke to in Drunken Duck where very pro Leave and said that was the regional view amongst farmers. Obvious from looking around Hampshire farms. When the currency underpinning the EU blows up we need to be as far awy as possible. The EU is an expanding club of ever poorer members, an attempt to paper over the cracks (casums) of decades of economic mismanagement by simply adding more heads,
I am more than happy to change the subject
There's another thread for all of this!!
This is about Jezza and "F" knows what he thinks about the EU 😉
What as a scientist would Corbyn do for you?
When I look around some of the major employers of scientists would be shut or trimmed back e.g. defence, O&G, Nuclear, Pharma. And looking at how they like to interfere I'd expect the Research Councils to loose some of their independence also. But maybe you see something I don't.
Genuinely good article from the other Owen
edit:
What as a scientist would Corbyn do for you?
Theres probably a reason why Jezza doesn't talk about science much:
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Water is organic? Who knew.
Corbers can't even spell "conventional". There would be no science or engineering left under a government led by him.
Corbers can't even spell "conventional".
What a waste of a good grammar school education.
[Alternatively, a smart way to connect with youff culture on ****ter]
Theres probably a reason why Jezza doesn't talk about science much
he thinks his brother is right?
Corbyn has stated his belief that the anthropogenic contribution to global warming is minimal with any increase in temperature due to increased solar activity. In 2008 Corbyn went even further than being sceptical, and took an absolutist, certain position by stating, "... CO2 has never driven, does not drive and never will drive weather or climate. Global warming is over and it never was anything to do with CO2. CO2 is still rising but the world is now cooling and will continue to do so."
Which Corbyn do you think this Wiki quote relates too?
Are you guys going to all explode when he gets elected again? This thread may self-destruct 😀
(Not particularly a JC fan but it's very amusing watching people get all up-tight about someone they think is rubbish...reading between the lines it seems to me a bit like in the playground and being mean to the girl you fancy...I genuinely think the right wing anti-Corbynites on here fear him for potentially rocking their world.)
i genuinely think the right wing anti-Corbynites on here fear him for potentially rocking their world... :D)
As a politician he looks completely out of his depth, struggles to convey a message or lead his party.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37404211 ]Reaching Out....[/url]
If he knew how to reach out he wouldn't be in this mess really.
The digital launch was a classic example, an utter failure worthy of The Thick of It, as much as the entire world is against him lines it doesn't really cover the bigger problem which is that he doesn't really know how to deliver a message or get something over.
The only thing that will implode if he wins again is the Labour party.
There's nothing wrong with indoctrinating your kids. From an early age I drummed into my kids two things, that everything was the fault of Margaret Thatcher, and the tories are evil. It's become a bit of a running joke now as whenever anything goes wrong my 12 year old asks if it was Margaret Thatcher's fault.
that's not really funny.
This is the sort of thing that engrains racism, bigotery and intolerance into people.
It's become a bit of a running joke now as whenever anything goes wrong my 12 year old asks if it was Margaret Thatcher's fault.
it's a bit harsh blaming her for JC 😉
We can tho big and daft. the logic goes like this:
Thatcher moved the tory party to the right from centre right leaving the space for Blair to move the labour party from centre left to centre right.
This created a vacuum on the left where many labour party members want the labour party to be and when given the chance they elected a centre left leader - Corbyn. Note Corbyn is centre left not hard left.) But as the centre of gravity of English ( and I do mean english) politics had moved rightwards because of thatcher, Corbyn appears in comparison to recent leaders far left.
So two things are Thatchers fault - that Corbyn won the labour leadership and that a centre left moderate like Corbyn can be labelled hard left.
So once again its all Thatcher fault 😉
So once again its all Thatcher fault
also nicely convenient for those that followed 😉
As for indoctrination the world would be a better place if people taught their kids to think rather than to believe
that's not really funny.
This is the sort of thing that engrains racism, bigotery and intolerance into people.
You'll never guess the name of the evil witch in all the bedtime stories I tell the grand daughter.
🙂
You'll never guess the name of the evil witch in all the bedtime stories I tell the grand daughter.
Cherie Blair ?
Imagine the kids programmes!
all together now:
[i]I'm a Trot
Je suis une Trot
John Diane and Jeremy
We're the Trots on Trots TV
One two three
Boo!
I'm a Trot
Je suis une Trot
John Diane and Jeremy
We love our house, our secret house
Shhh, it's a secret
It's all right, they're not going to tell anyone
Lovely PLP
Our friend the PLP...[/i]
etc.
Nope, not Diane either.
But the evil, manipulative Grand Vizier is usually a Mandy.
Future irony.
Given that on matters of science and a shared belief in the medicinal qualities of water they are standing next to each other on the level playing field, if the Royal Cuff-fiddler ascends to the throne before Jezzamy is dumped, they'll get on like a couple of fakwerts in a sack.
Um
Corbyn's running on a platform of listening to people and experts. So I'd be surprised if election resulted in a crusade to force his own point of view on us. It'd be a nice change wouldn't it?
the logic
😯 or should that be 😀
centre left moderate like Corbyn
Who says this thread is boring and predictable ? Priceless
@eden we are looking forward to him being re-elected so the fun can continue.
[url= https://brightonbulletin.com/2016/08/27/sourthern-commuters-angry-at-show-off-corbyn-for-posing-in-the-kind-of-space-they-would-kill-their-nan-for/ ]More fallout for Corbyn following train stunt[/url]
I am hoping that's tongue in cheek, however I do have a niggling worry. Hardly open, libertarian or tolerant is it ?
Absolutely not. I'll have very little control over what my kids will think when they grow up, but right now I'm in a position of huge influence so I'm not about to waste the opportunity. You probably don't want to know some of the other stuff I've told them. 🙂
the same four uber-right wingers
it makes you wonder if they're maybe being paid to spout their childish and belligerent nonsense..
the amount of time they spend on here vehemently defending the indefendable..
swivel-eyed loons
if I had my way they'd be up against the wall
(disclaimer: I am simply one disgruntled anti-capitalist with no political affiliations and I do not in any way represent corbyn or momentum before the fantastic four start frothing)
if I had my way they'd be up against the wall
The Croydon Communist, just like his alter ego, has a list ready for the revolution 😉
Corbyn's running on a platform of listening to [s]people[/s][b] Seamus[/b] and [s]experts[/s] [b]John[/b]
FIFY
Corbyn's running on a platform of listening to Seamus and John
Winchester and two grammar schools - ok Johnno left his at 17 - bloody elites are everywhere!!
you guys are just so mean
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I'm confused - are the right wingers supposed to be arguing in favour of keeping Corbyn (because he is electoral kryptonite, keeping the Labour Party out of power) or arguing in favour of dumping Corbyn (Because we are afraid that Corbyn is so popular that he will lead the LP to an election win) or are wa hoping that by replacing Corbyn with Owen the LP will split in two... or does that only happen if they keep Corbyn.
Can someone send me the latest memo along with my cheque from CCHQ please?
Jamba - corbyn is centre left by any rational analysis.
Name one hard left policy he espouses
Corbyn has hundreds of thousands of new members he can mobilise to counteract misinformation and get the message to the 4 million people who have stopped voting labour since 1997. Smith has some vague plan about appealing to conservative voters, but refuses to provide any details about how he is going to achieve that.
it's gonna be a landslide for corbyn and a landslide for labour..
Be gone thatcher's children for you are no longer welcome here amongst the British people.. your politics and attitudes are from a bygone era, your grotesque and indecorous jeering no longer holds any sway with the electorate
Now is the time for your grandparents to be proud and for them to cast off the shame that their tory descendants have heaped upon them
and a landslide for labour..
keep living the dream - probably needs the Tories to make a complete horlicks of Brexit, in which case we will all be living a nightmare
it's gonna be a landslide for corbyn and a landslide for labour..
It's true, polls have Corbyn well ahead. That's a poll of Labour voters offered the choice between May, Corbyn or 'don't know'. Corbyn is 10% clear of the other two options put together! May only gets a piffling 15% of Labour voters preferring her!
TJ. Naming actual policies is quite hard as he doesn't really have any.
Nationalisation
Anti-profit
Naming an avowed Marxist as Chancellor
Police should actually fire their weapons when confronted by Terrorists
Friend of IRA, Hamas & Hezbollah. A "tragedy" Bin Laden was killed
Espousing Kinder Gentler Politics and "I don't do abuse" whilst turning two very blind eyes to supporters doing exactly the opposite. Reminds me of Stalin.
landslide for Labour
Yunki the only landslide Labour are going to experience is being buried by one.
As I said a year ago I wish to see the hard left agenda removed from mainstream British politics and Corbyn and Momentum are very much on course to deliver that. If it takes a crushing GE defeat in 2020 so be it. I really thought Scottish elections would have been enough but finishing third to the Tories there wasn't enough to dislodge the dreamers.
you're a pretty funny guy Jambalaya 😆
Reminds me of Stalin.
That's the best yet 😆
Come on Jamba - you claim he is hard left - then show he is.
Nationalisation I assume yo mean the railways - actually what he said was when the franchises come to an end then let the public sector take them over - the policy of the Lib dems and the SNP. Hardly hard left. the hard left position would be to take them into public ownership now with no compensation to the franchisees
anti profit - I have no idea what you mean - source?
An avowded marxist as chancellor - really? Source please
Abuse of opponents does not mean you are of the hard left. Look at the abuse he recireves from the right and the abuse dished out by the right.
Now - can you please state a single thing he has actually espoused that is hard left.
You of course do know the Bin Laden "tragedy comment" is nothing like that. Its a tragedy he was not subject to the due process of law is what he said as by shooting him out of hand it creates all sorts of issues.
TJ, re the Marxist comment, from the man himself;
[url= http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/mcdonnells-marxism-makes-him-unfit-for-office ]Look, I’m straight, I’m honest with people: I’m a Marxist. [/url]
Momentum on CH4 Dispatches now.
But biased - already mentioning cuckoos. A disgrace.
So there we are. A Trojan Horse. Not the slightest chance of getting their organisation elected anywhere on it's own merits so they try and take over someone elses.
Hey ho. Ten more years of Conservatism, then.