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I need to catch up on the thread properly as have been on the road today and off again now.
@Gonzy I direct questions at you as you have an opinion and are engaged in the debate. The fact you are Muslim adds perspective and I'm interested in that in particular. If this offends you I'll stop.
Isreal isn't building on Palestinain land, they fought a war with Jordan and won so they own it now. Their is of course the religious perspective that says it's always been their land. There are plenty a lot more forceful than Netanyahu in their views.
DrJ, quite right Isreal should dispense with the Iron Dome and just let all those missiles rain down, it would create plenty of TV images of dead and maimed children which seem to sway public opinion.
😯Isreal isn't building on Palestinain land, they fought a war with Jordan and won so they own it now
I think I will just answer that with an appeal to authority as it seems to be the only think you debate with
I await your thrilling explanation of how your view and the international communities are at such odds......cant wait to read it
The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004 advisory opinion.[12][13][14] In April 2012, UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon, in response to moves by Israel to legalise Israeli outposts, reiterated that all settlement activity is illegal, and "runs contrary to Israel's obligations under the Road Map and repeated Quartet calls for the parties to refrain from provocations."[15] Similar criticism was advanced by the EU and the US.[16][17] Israel disputes the position of the international community and the legal arguments that were used to declare the settlements illegal.[18]
The presence and ongoing expansion of existing settlements by Israel and the construction of settlement outposts is frequently criticized as an obstacle to the peace process by the Palestinians,[19] and third parties such as the OIC,[20] the United Nations,[21] Russia,[22] the United Kingdom,[23] France,[24] the European Union,[25] and the United States have echoed those criticisms.[21]
Therefore you must be wrong or the ones you appealed to as authorities were wrong. Which logical position do you like most for being wrong ?
If you were not such amusing own goals you would have to go the way of the chewkw
jambalaya - Member
@Gonzy I direct questions at you as you have an opinion and are engaged in the debate. The fact you are Muslim adds perspective and I'm interested in that in particular. If this offends you I'll stop.
I come from a Muslim country (the govt insists that it is Muslim country).
I grew up in a Muslim village with good Muslim friends in the far east.
My best mate is a Muslim convert (he would starve if he does not).
We have many Muslim terrorist cells (they keep popping up here and there).
We have many Taliban like schools.
We have many race riots based on religion ... ya, I know how they make that a connection I don't know ...
Hell! I can tell you they don't like Jews but they certainly do not give a monkey about the piece of land that is desert sand. Their excuse is to use that trouble to destroy the Jews ... 😆
Oh ya as usual I have always tempted my Muslim friends to eat pork or bacon even in a rather strict Muslim country.
Would normally cause a race riot or ethnic cleansing just by the mention of pork ...
But hell pork chop tastes good! 😆
edit: Oh ya ... the neigbouring islands always send their fanatic fighters over to kidnap some people to demand for ransom and for head cutting entertainment ... yawn ... yes, we do get them.
Don't you think perhaps the pals might get more sympathy if they stopped firing rockets and attacking people? It would remove any excuse that the Israelis had, the whole world would be forced to intervene.
Come on, you can't have any passing familiarity with Jewish or Israeli history and think that you can sit around and wait for other people's sympathy to save you. Is that how the second aliyah happened? Is that how Israel was founded? Is that how the occupation has lasted so long? No! One way or another you have to take care of yourself, change the facts on the ground, and f*** other people's sympathy or indignation.
The first intifada was precisely a reaction against the PLO's poncing about in Tunis and Paris, writing long-winded declarations, and waiting for sympathy to overthrow the occupation.
The first intifada
IIRC, didn't the pals kill more of their own lot fighting each other than the Israelis managed to?
ninfan
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honestly? just say, **** it, kill them all and i'll respect you more.Isreal isn't building on Palestinain land, they fought a war with Jordan and won so they own it now
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IIRC, didn't the pals kill more of their own lot fighting each other than the Israelis managed to?
1,087 [Palestinians killed:]
by Israeli security forces[3]
75 by Israeli civilians[3]
882 alleged collaborators were killed by other Palestinians[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada
Still, a people united will never be defeated...oh
View from Palestinian Bassem Eid, founder and former director of the Jerusalem-based Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group.
"I am a proud Palestinian who grew up in a refugee camp and raised a large family. I want peace and prosperity for my people. I want an end to the misery and the destruction.
After 66 years of mistakes and missed opportunities, it is time for us Palestinians to create the conditions for peace and to work for a better future. It is time that we stopped pretending that we can destroy Israel or drive the Jews into the sea. It is time that we stopped listening to Muslim radicals or Arab regimes that use us to continue a pointless, destructive, and immoral war with Israel.
Let’s be realistic. We Palestinians are not doing well.
In Gaza, our schools are controlled by Muslim fanatics who indoctrinate our children, and Hamas uses our civilians as human shields in a losing battle against Israel. Hamas maintains power through violence, and it ensures that money is spent on its arsenal rather than on making the Palestinians’ lives better. While President Abbas is quick to denounce Israel whenever it attacks Hamas, he has absolutely no ability to stop Hamas from provoking Israel.
In the West Bank, while Abbas has been incapable of stopping the construction of Israeli settlements, the only good jobs are with Israeli companies, and the BDS (Boycott, Sanctions, and Divestment) movement is doing its best to take those jobs away from us. Abbas runs a corrupt dictatorship that uses international funds to consolidate its own administration rather than to develop the Palestinian economy.
In East Jerusalem, the PA is so mistrusted that most Palestinians would prefer to live under Israeli rule than under PA rule, and yet some of us seem unable to live in peace with the Jews.
In Palestinian camps in Arab countries, our human rights are constantly being violated, and we are simply used by our Arab hosts to further their own goals.
The facts about Israel
Despite what we tell ourselves, Israel is here to stay. What’s more, it has a right to exist. It is the nation of the Jews but also a nation for Israeli Arabs who have better lives than Arabs anywhere in Arab countries. We must accept these facts and move on. The antisemitism promoted by Hamas, Fatah, and the BDS movement is not the answer for us Palestinians.
The answer is to live in peace and democracy, side by side with Israel. We missed many opportunities to do that. We missed it in 1947 when Arab regimes encouraged us to refuse the UN partition plan. We missed it between 1948 and 1967 when we refused to create a state next to Israel. We missed it again every time after that when we refused a two-state solution presented to us.
Yet we know that Israelis want to live in peace, and that the vast majority of Israelis are friendly and neighborly. We know that Palestinian violence results in Israelis being discouraged about peace and electing ever more right-wing governments. We know that Egypt was able to secure a very favorable peace deal with Israel because Egypt agreed to accept Israel and to give up on violence. We know that the soft approach works with Israel, and yet we continue to use violence and extremist rhetoric.
Israel will never accept a large influx of Palestinians that would change the Jewish character of Israel. This means that insisting on the return of millions of refugees into Israel is pure delusion. In addition to this, the villages that we tell Palestinian refugees that they will one day return to no longer exist. We are simply lying to ourselves.
A new approach
To make peace with Israel, we need to change our approach. We need to accept that the right of return will be resolved through financial compensation that will allow Palestinian refugees to settle either in Arab countries or in Palestine. We need to accept that Israel’s security is a key to any solution. We need to accept that East Jerusalem may have to remain part of Israel.
Our most important change in approach, however, and one with which we need the help of the international community, is that we need a democratically elected and secular government that responds to the needs of our people. As I wrote in August 2008 with Nathan Sharansky, a former Soviet dissident and the author of the book “The Case for Democracy”, there won’t be peace without democracy. As long as the so-called Palestinian leader is able to use international funds towards consolidating his own network of corrupt cronies, Palestinians will not trust him and will look to the alternative, which sadly happens to be Hamas.
As Sharansky and I wrote in 2008, the Israeli and international rationale that strengthening a non-democratic corrupt leader will ensure that he is “able to fight Hamas and forge a final peace with Israel” does not work. Almost seven years later, it is even clearer that this approach leads nowhere. President Abbas has no credibility among Palestinians, and even if he wanted a peace deal (which seems doubtful), he has no ability to sell it to the Palestinian public.
What we Palestinians need is a strong civil society and strong democratic institutions, and we need an end to human rights violations, including those perpetrated by Palestinians and other Arabs. Well-meaning international donors must ensure that their money is spent towards this goal, and not towards propping up either Hamas or Fatah. There is no doubt that much work is needed, but at the very least we need to reverse the current trend that is causing Palestinian society to drift even further towards corrupt and brutal rule, both in Gaza and in the West Bank. Ironically, it is only in East Jerusalem, under Israeli rule, that most Palestinians feel adequately represented by their politicians.
Hope for the future
Despite our current predicament, I believe that our future will be bright if we do what is needed to achieve peace. We can have a secular democracy that pursues our own best interests. We can live in peace with Israel and the Jews, and we can benefit from Israel’s economic success and democratic values. We have it within our power to transform a long-time enemy into a friend. We have a choice, and we can exercise that choice towards a better future for our people."
[url= http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-palestinians-hold-the-key-to-a-better-future/ ]link[/url]
View from Palestinian Bassem Eid, founder and former director of the Jerusalem-based Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group.
Load of empty blether.
Don't forget that the Palestinians have been giving concessions to Israel for decades, and received absolutely nothing in return. That led to the current feeling of hopelessness, that nothing they do will get them anywhere, and the rejection of the old path of Fatah, with the free and fair elections that brought Hamas to power. People don't strap on a suicide vest if they have any other alternative. Israel has pushed them into a place where they see no way out. In fact the Israelis are more than happy with the continued conflict - it allows them to divert attention from internal conflicts.
OK Nim, I'm sure there are some valid points in there but it's only one perspective. How do you feel about this?
"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.
"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.
"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.
"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. “Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"
Why do you need my view specifically?
The Bassem view is interesting as it's a Palestinian voice that needs to be heard and highlights key points that dont get stressed enough in our media.
yes we definitely just need a view you cherry picked to help make your point and we definitely don't need you to answer any questions about your view
Minority and fringe views are rarely heard as loudly as the prevailing ones
The Bassem view is interesting as it's a Palestinian voice that needs to be heard and highlights key points that dont get stressed enough in our media.
How strange, because I hear those points stressed all the time in the media, just not usually by Palestinians.
I was asking for your view because like the other zionists on this thread you seem to accept absolutely no criticism of Israel whatsoever, and when it comes from holocaust survivors you can't accuse them of anti-semitism (which is the normal practise for silencing any criticism of Israel).
More specifically then nim, are you 'alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society' or is this not something that bothers you? Does it concern you that Israel has a Justice Minister who has called for genocide against the Palestinians?
I agree with 98% of what Bassem said (I think he is a former colleague of an acquaintance but I might be confusing people), although I think some of his historic interpretation/speculation is off. I don't think calling it "empty blether" without addressing any of the points is much use, and neither is starting some cut & paste war of opposing quotes.
I don't think calling it "empty blether" without addressing any of the points is much use
The point is that even if you think he is correct in saying that the Palestinians have made numerous mistakes, there is no basis for thinking that the results would be any different. If Fatah had not been corrupt and lined their own pockets would the Israelis have refrained from building one single house on occupied land? There is no point in a lengthy discussion and rebuttal of his points because the whole thing is built on a false premise.
I don't think calling it "empty blether" without addressing any of the points is much use, and neither is starting some cut & paste war of opposing quotes.
Oh thank god, the thread police are here. 🙂
I’m so delighted my view carries such value.
I like many Israeli’s are openly critical of Israel. I’ve said on here previously that Israel isn’t perfect by any stretch. I don’t need to come on to STW to do that, there are ample people already doing it. There are voices that I feel need to be heard that aren’t common in the UK press such as Bassem. Only reading electronic intifada doesn’t give a balanced view. Khaled Abu Toameh also worth checking out his views / video interviews as another man on the ground who is likely to know more than most on STW.
Having a parliamentary process where there is a scramble for majority means that it isn’t uncommon to suddenly find hard liners as part of the Government, such as Ayelet Shaked. There are extremists and racists in every society, unfortunately. However Israel does have freedom of speech and freedom of the press – for all Israelis – Jew, Muslim Druze Christian etc. Haaretz is particularly critical. Try having freedom of speech against the ‘establishment’ in downtown Gaza. On the flip side, Israel has a strong and growing peace movement. The destruction and death is in Gaza is deplorable. It could be avoided. However it isn’t about the siege. Like it or not, Hamas favours this strategy while the leaders hide in their bunkers or even better for the chief Khaled Meshaal, kick back in Qatar’s luxury.
Would there be peace if Israel conceded more land? Well Gaza didn’t go to plan as per Hamas and Fatah murdering each other, although it did work to establish a cold peace with Egypt and Jordan.
That 300 Shoah survivors expressed that view doesn’t mean that it speaks for all Shoah survivors.
Their view was in response to Ellie Wiesel, a Shoah survivor himself, regarding Hamas use of human shields.
Like it or not, your average Israeli wants a peaceful future.
That probably doesn’t answer all the points raised but as I’m sure you’ll understand, it is a work day, I have tons to do.
If there is a vote I shall vote against intervening in others affairs especially those of the Palestine and Israel.
That place is of no significant at all. Full of sand it is!
No, no, no ... as Lady Thatcher once said. 😆
It looks like there are many trouble makers in BritLand trying to intervene in others affairs.
Ya, keep stirring troubles in others home. 😆
[b]"You Shall Not Pass!" said Gandalf the Grey.[/b]
That probably doesn’t answer all the points raised but as I’m sure you’ll understand, it is a work day, I have tons to do.
I had a quick scan and saw some whataboutery and victim blaming amongst some more reasonable points.
Having a parliamentary process where there is a scramble for majority means that it isn’t uncommon to suddenly find hard liners as part of the Government, such as Ayelet Shaked. There are extremists and racists in every society, unfortunately.
It's pretty uncommon in the UK to have politicians in major positions in government that have openly called for the extermination of a particular group of people, or who describe asylum seekers as a cancer.
Yes there are extremists in every society but this indicates a much wider problem. I'm assuming you don't agree.
'Yes there are extremists in every society but this indicates a much wider problem. I'm assuming you don't agree.'
Yes I am such a warmonger that I'm using references from a Palestinian Human Rights spokesperson.
d. There are extremists and racists in every society, unfortunately. However Israel does have freedom of speech and freedom of the press – for all Israelis – Jew, Muslim Druze Christian etc. Haaretz is particularly critical. Try having freedom of speech against the ‘establishment’ in downtown Gaza
You cannot help yourself to keep having the digs - FWIW - using your example - they can be as hard line as they like and say that Israel should be burned to the ground as they also have "freedom of speech" and extremists. Strange you dont praise them for being just like you and letting them into govt.
If you treat people like animals they will act liek animals
you then use that as your justification for their treatment
Like it or not, your average Israeli wants a peaceful future.
Both sides want peace ...on their terms
Both sides need to ask if what they are doing is likely to achieve it
No connection to the land of Palestine/Israel. Fact!
No relatives in those land. You are NOT Palestinians! Fact!
No religious connection especially the non-believers. You Don't believe in God! Fact!
No economy significance. Fact!
Yet, the lefties keep banging on and on and on about their rights to cause troubles in already troubled land ... that is the magnitude of hypocrisy.
No! No! No! (As Lady Thatcher once said to their face 😆 )
Yes I am such a warmonger that I'm using references from a Palestinian Human Rights spokesperson.
*sigh*
Human rights is only for Western nations.
That concept is shite in God's countries.
Oh thank god, the thread police are here.
lol I did laugh at that one! But seriously - you (in particular) can hardly complain about whataboutery when your cut and paste odyssey from Haaretz is classic whataboutery.
The point is that even if you think he is correct in saying that the Palestinians have made numerous mistakes, there is no basis for thinking that the results would be any different. If Fatah had not been corrupt and lined their own pockets would the Israelis have refrained from building one single house on occupied land? There is no point in a lengthy discussion and rebuttal of his points because the whole thing is built on a false premise.
Okay, I think that's more constructive. But I don't think that an alternate history based on Palestinian institutions being more resilient and unified is a false premise. If the PLO had maintained hegemony in Palestinian society, you wouldn't (or might not have) have had the rise of Hamas or the intifada so; if the PA had been less bent, it would have delievered more services to its citizens and Gaza wouldn't have collapsed; if the PA security services had been more effective, there wouldn't have been so many rockets and the Area A and B land would have been better controlled; if the PA hadn't been so useless and corrupt, there would have been more Israeli and international investment into the PA, and greater external resistance to Israeli destruction of property (oh, and a tax base that isn't filtered through israel, and employment, and economic growth).
Oh no you don't! 😛
You cannot twist and turn your words.
The bottom line is that you lot trouble makers, especially the lefties 😆 , are just escalating the problem for both sides.
Nobody in their sane mind would get involve in a problem that cannot be solved in a foreign land which has no significant value at all.
The hypocrisy is the fact that the non-believers want to solve the problem of God (other cultures and belief system).
What arrogance!
No logic at all. 😆
JY is that the same international court that the US, Russia, China nor any Middle Easten country is actually a member of ?
I've often said that to get a better understanding of the Middle East crises you need to see and hear what's being said in Arabic or indeed Hebrew. I came across this website yesterday, it's run by an ex US foreign service expert who recently gave testimony to congress on social media usage (linked to on the website, very interesting). They collect TV pieces and social media posts and provide translations.
Below is an interview with the mother of a Palestinian man who stabbed Isrealis and was shot thus becoming in her view a matyr. She says she'd gladly see both her other sons do the same. All very Islamist extremist stuff. The site also has some disturbing social media images of children posing with knives and a clip from another TV interview after parents in Gaza named their baby "knife of Jeruslam"
[url= http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5128.htm ]Middle East Media Research Institue - Plaestinian Mother[/url]
[url= http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5126.htm ]Baby named Knife of Jerusalem[/url]
JY is that the same international court that the US, Russia, China nor any Middle Easten country is actually a member of ?
No that would be the fictional one that exists only in your mind
FWIW the first three have judges on that court and , unless no middle eastern country is a member of the UN, then that but will be wrong to there is always one muslim/arab judge currently Moroccan FWIW]
Anyway thanks for yet another thrilling insight into your expertise 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice#Criticisms
I know how much you like to read up on things so here is the court in al its glory
One would think you would tire of self pwning but apprently not. Oh thanks for taking the time to copy JHJ and using the internet video resources to support your well documented and highly insightful views
FWIW wiki is rather insightful in your choice of source
The institute was co-founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli military intelligence officer and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-born American political scientist. MEMRI states that its goal is to "bridge the language gap between the Middle East and the West".[2] Critics charge that it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, through the production and dissemination of inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views of extremists while deemphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.
Imagine that eh you found a biased source ...I am speechless,as I am sure you are, at your bad luck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
I wonder if it has interesting social media clips of settlers views or those who are beating up innocent people for being a bit dark skinned and near a bus - perhaps you just missed them in your search for truth?
Respectfully this is all a very JHJ type exchange.
Even your appeal to its authority* - clearly you cannot learn- was factually incorrect so you are actually getting worse not better here.
* why do you keep doing these ?
😆
I apologise unreservedly and, out of respect, I will not make this comparison again.
The problem is in middle east related to Palestinian people and the Israeli so why are their problems so important to you lot lefties elite in BritLand? (Lefties elite <- 😆 )
You have no relatives over there ...
You do not have the same culture ...
You do not believe in their God ...
[b]You are merely trouble makers trying to intervene in others affairs.[/b]
You have No justification whatsoever apart from banging on about others affairs.
You lot are the fire starters adding fuel to fire creating miserable lives for others. 🙄
[b]
"You shall not pass!" said Gandalf the grey.[/b] 😛
All hail the kill-file.
Borders change with wars JY, Isreals neighbours (until they where defeated) and Hamas want to wipe it from the face of the earth via armed Jihad. I was referring to the court the Palestinians recently joined, seems your quote was from a different one then.
Did you watch any of the clips ? They are recorded from tv and social media posts. It matters not a jot who is translating them. Did you see the social media stills of kids with knives. All very reminiscent of the ISIS videos and Vicenews reporting. The MEMRI material mirrors exactly the Vicenews coverage in their recent series on the Intifada.
Very far from being "bad luck" the MEMRI site is a very depressing but totally expected verification of what's really happening. Did you get the bit about the lead journalist speaking to the senate ? Take the time and read the submission
deadlydarcy - MemberAll hail the kill-file.
Oh no you don't! 😆
Lifer - MemberChewkw.com
Is that a tribute to me?
I like! 
The MEMRI material mirrors exactly the Vicenews coverage in their recent series on the Intifada.
You mean that there is more than one source of biased zionist news that you have managed to source on the entire interwebz. The fact you use this as another appeal to authority is as predictable as it is risible,
the MEMRI site is a very depressing but totally expected verification of what's really happening.
Its not verification at all its biased and one sided reporting designed to appeal to folk like you who wallow in one sides confirmation bias. You really are blinkered
Could you highlight anything it says critical of Israel or of Jewish actions you now for balance ?
[b]Critics charge that it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, through the production and dissemination of inaccurate translations and by selectively translating views of extremists while deemphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[/b]
Prove that is untrue
TBH as both sides are killing each other i would have assumed by now most folk have realised that some folk, on either side, really dislike each other. I am not sure what you think you are proving here.
delete ....
[quote=deadlydarcy opined]All hail the kill-file.
Has anyone actually replied to anything he has said on this thread other than to point out they are not reading his posts?
The loon will even reply to this wont he - there is no emoticon for shrugging ones shoulders in a mixture of scorn and pity is there.
This is funny ... 😆
I've often said that to get a better understanding of the Middle East crises you need to see and hear what's being said in Arabic or indeed Hebrew.
Before you start confusing yourself with YouTube videos, having a basic grasp of the facts would probably be a good start for you. Your repeated factual falsehoods about the peace process, about the Palestinian constitution, about 1947 and now the International Court of Justice show that this is a particular problem for you.
What exactly do you think the MEMRI stuff proves anyway? That there are a lot of aggro merchants with access to media? I'm not sure that's really a great insight in the Holy Land, and it just leads to cut and paste wars with you and gonzy competing to find the most spittle-flecked extremist rhetoric from the side of which you disapprove most.
KOna nails it.
the real issue here, as in NI and everywhere elese it has happened is that we have polarissed communities who never mingle with large portions on borhs sides devaluing and hating the other.
Peace will only come when the people involved change
Both sides need to ask if what they are currently doign will bring about peace
Israel, and is zionist supporters, need to understand you cannot win lands in war then claim them as your own and that giving up what they stole is the only road to peace and Palestinians need to embrace a two state solution with boundaries based on international law
I dont think either side is anywhere near reaching that conclusion and some cannot even accept their side does anything wrong and of they do its because the other side provoked them even when they are bombing schools.
NO arab nation would be able to act like Israel has in that region with expansionist policies, assassinations abroad and secret nukes.
Deciding who is worse is pointless and it wont bring about peace but if you treat people like animals they will act like animals.
Oh no you don't!
You leftie women rights abuser ... Ya, you do. You do.
You condone it when you support those religious fanatics.
What a bunch of trouble makers who cannot even get their own priority and logic right.
🙄