A golden STW moment as Zulu invokes a drawing from the frickin' bible. I think this can go in the column with "my racism hell".
Seriously, given your type, that'd just comedy gold. 😆
😆
and 😆 again
And a few more 😆 😆
Don't forget about ancient books and prophecies. They should also be an important guiding hand in modern day politics.
Well, precisely!
so why have we hung so much on wither the 1947 or 1967 borders?
Hows about the concept that Israel won gaza fair and square when they were attacked by a coalition of surrounding nations that wanted to wipe them off the map, and subsequently got their arses kicked?
Shucks, who needs family court?
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Whoa, it's all getting a bit "huntin' an' a 'shootin" now. Kicked their arses you say? I think I can feel the stirrings of an erection. Talk about fightin' and stuff some more. It's ever so sexy.
Well Sinn-Fein IRA like to go back to ancient history when reading maps so why can't that apply to Israel 😉
Here have one on me ...erm sort of 😕
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He is not impressed by you though 😳
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More insight from bloodynora as he throws a straw man in. (He does know what one of those is doesn't he?).
One of these days, it'll be something useful.
Hows about the concept that Israel won gaza fair and square when they were attacked by a coalition of surrounding nations that wanted to wipe them off the map, and subsequently got their arses kicked?
...because it doesn't solve the problem?
After all, following that logic why should we object if Iran dropped an A-bomb on Tel-Aviv. Might is surely right. N'est pas?
yep-- zulu -- thats it, the guy with the biggest stick must be right !!
Do you think the Welsh should have the right to occupy London?
Yes/ydw.
Next/nesaf! 😀
Oh give me a break, now you're sounding like one of those 9/11 conspiracy nuts. Seriously this is the weakest bs excuse i've ever read.By their own do you mean Israeli spies?
OHHHH yeah, those well known, highly dangerous Israeli religious extremists. Where's the video of them dragging a beheaded innocent man through the streets of tel aviv?It's interesting that you have this big diatribe about religious extremists, but no mention of the Israeli religious extremists, who hold considerable political clout.
Because as i've said before - this problem stems from before Modern Israel was formed. It was created within the boundaries of ancient Israel originally stood - modern israel is much much smaller, and that's where the grievance comes from. The Jews were displaced more than once and there are two main "branches" of jewish history. Mizrachim (Ancient history) and Ashkenazic (Modern jewish families whose forefathers spread around the globe after being displaced from the middle east). The Ashkenazic jews are decendents of the Mizrachim who fled to europe and the east during wars in Israel, they were then forced to flee back to Israel during the 2nd world war dodging persecution in Europe. The now palestinians subjected the returning jews to terrible conditions and thousands of families were living in cramped tents until the modern Israeli state was created in 1946 to house them. The Mizrachim were the "ancient" Jews who moved around Israel and the middle east dodging persecution and frequent invasions from virtually all of the arab nations until finally being able to settle (usually hiding their religious beliefs). Jewish families are still flocking back to Israel as it is something they believe they are supposed to do. It is their home as well after all and their ancestors have been there since the beginning of time. This is basic ancient history and it's why there is a problem today.Why would it go back earlier than Israel's existence?
Ill state this again though, I'm still on the fence, I just feel there is an imbalance in accusations and knowledge.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/11/2891585/report-violence-against-palestinians.html
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🙁
Jewish families are still flocking back to Israel as it is something they believe they are supposed to do. It is their home as well after all and their ancestors have been there since the beginning of time. This is basic ancient history and it's why there is a problem today.
Ancient 'homelands' and prophecies in books don't make for compelling arguments for current actions. You don't seem very on the fence btw.
Simply trying to address a balance of points because it's not black and white. I'm being made to appear biased because I find myself defending against such biased remarks. You are clearly staunchly against anything Israeli and especially the Israeli people. You are the one who is not on the fence, and your judgment is based purely on mass, stupid media. You don't intend to look at the issue any deeper than the surface, so your judgment is malformed and too early.You don't seem very on the fence btw.
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[/img] Bomb attack on the 21st, 24 seriously injured. All innocent civilians. By defending Hamas you are also condoning this action by the way.
This boy was recruited by Hamas. He's 14 years old.
I won't post anymore because they're too gruesome to be seen on a public forum in my eyes. But this is on both sides, so don't try to blame innocent Israeli's as if they are all a part of some consenting war/terror machine, because they are far from it. There is evil on both sides, and it's not for us to judge who is in the wrong yet.
Essentially it's and problem similar to lots of issues in the world, in that it's planting a new population in an area to the detriment of another one, there are loads of examples of this all around the world. Google it it's a recurring theme through out history.
But anyway the Jews have had a hard time throughout history, in relation to Israel I'm meaning particularly in Europe and Russia.
So someone comes up the the Zionist idea, concept of one ever expanding Jewish state. A few areas have been suggested through out the years btw, we'd have this same problem elsewhere if not Israel no doubt..
From around the 1880s we've had people starting to move to the area, the movement of people has continued until this day this day periodically and regularly through the years, firstly from Russia and latterly European refugees.
This creates a melting pot of Israeli terrorists and Arab riots etc as one side is promised land and the other is getting kicked from theirs.
We then end up with the creation of the Israeli state(ultimately the solution to the European problem) then a few wars ensue, Jewish and Arab tensions are ramped up in the region over all and you've more Jewish migrating to Israel due to expulsion and persecution in other Arab countries, which causes more expansion of Israel into what was Palestinian terrioties, which continues till today.
So this is where we are these days, with the added influence of however America see's Israel usefulness in what ever strategic power games it has in the region(see their funding of the Israeli war machine, their acceptance of Israelis extremist reactions against the Palestinians, see continual land grabbing, complete blockade and denial of basic human rights, versus a few rockets.
But regardless the solution isn't about who started it all, as we can answer that right now, the Europeans. Nor is it about what was right or wrong in the recent past or distant past.
It's about how do you solve the current situation. And that has to do with israel taking a step back and offering a true hand of peace out, and western aims in the middle east changing towards peace rather than aquisition of wealth and resources.
Clearly that's not going to happen though, and in 30 years time, we'll be talking of this issue in historic sense, and we'll be talking about isralies expansion in to lebananon etc..
but anyhow, sure the palestinans are evil nasty people... 😐
It's a s*** state of affairs, we've replaced the persecution of one people with the persecution of another. and who only knows where that will ultimately end.
My fathers side of the family were jewish refugees,fleeing pogroms in Romania and Lithuania over 100 years ago. They ended up in manchester, where they re-settled and became integrated into 'british' society.
I don't know of any who wished to return to their 'roots'-- or head for Israel to partake in that business.
They have all been assimilated and for all intents and purposes are British. You can not help which fanny you drop out of, but you can decide if you wish to be a progressive human being or a reactionary bigot.
You can not help which fanny you drop out of
Beautifully put there Rudebwoy 😆
I can see an 'Ebony and Ivory' style song, utlising that line...
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Because as i've said before - this problem stems from before Modern Israel was formed. It was created within the boundaries of ancient Israel originally stood - modern israel is much much smaller, and that's where the grievance comes from.
It was created by taking land from the Palestinians. The new state of Israel subsequently took much more land. I think the Palestinians have much more reason to feel aggrieved than the Israelis.
What seosamh77 a nice summary of a shitty situation
I'm being made to appear biased because I find myself defending against such biased remarks. You are clearly staunchly against anything Israeli and especially the Israeli people.
GO kaesae Go
FFS you appear biased because you are
You are the one who is not on the fence, and your judgment is based purely on mass, stupid media. You don't intend to look at the issue any deeper than the surface, so your judgment is malformed and too early.
Crosses fingers insults help folk see the clarity of your argument
Bomb attack on the 21st, 24 seriously injured. All innocent civilians. By defending Hamas you are also condoning this action by the way.
Non sequitor. You can defend Hamas without defending everything they do - Give it ago with the IDF or would you like me to out up some nice videos of their assignations of civilians and accus eyou of condoning that? You can support Israel and not agree with everything they do. You may wish to try and see this issue in slightly less black and white [ no racial references meant] terms and without so many falacious arguments then again you may wish to rant on whilst claiming everyone else is biased and you are neutral
This ever expanding Zionist state? How fast is it predicted to keep expanding then?
Because I drove through Prestwich earlier this week, and to be honest, after reading all this, I'm quite concerned now. If the American's are supplying them with arms too, and they think they're fulfilling a biblical prophecy, then I may be driven out of my home, at gunpoint, by next Tuesday! 😯
I won't post anymore because they're too gruesome to be seen on a public forum in my eyes. But this is on both sides, so don't try to blame innocent Israeli's as if they are all a part of some consenting war/terror machine, because they are far from it. There is evil on both sides, and it's not for us to judge who is in the wrong yet.
I'm well aware that there is evil on both sides and I am certainly no 'fan' of Hamas. However they are a product of the desperate situation in Palestine, and as I said there is only one side holding all the cards. By the way, we get it, you've got a history degree (so have I). I don't really think that makes you an expert, do you?
Bomb attack on the 21st, 24 seriously injured. All innocent civilians. By defending Hamas you are also condoning this action by the way.
Wow, what grade did you get in your degree with this level of argument. 😕
I'm not at all 'anti-Israeli', but I am anti-Zionist.
GO kaesae GoFFS you appear biased because you are
Don't even know who Kaesae is but you wouldn't last very long on the playground would you?
Mindset of JunkYard: *Flawed argument has been broken down by a list of FACTS* *RESPONSE NEEDED* "You are someone else! Using a different user name!"
Very intelligent.
If you think that's an argument I hate to think what grade you got in anything.Wow, what grade did you get in your degree with this level of argument.
I love how all these threads end up in a load of "old boys" from the good old days of STW ganging up on anyone not afraid to post an opinion that is not the status quo. I apologise if my realistic and balanced view on world events doesn't suit all you fashionistas who would rather read some hipster blog post about "currently fashionable political views" than a history book. You guys are meant to be the old timers, not me.
anti-Zionist.
Who isn't? But anyone who thinks that some zionist world state taking over the world is a possibility in the 21st century is frankly a crack pot who's no better in my eyes than the next 9/11 conspiracy theory nut.
If you think that's an argument I hate to think what grade you got in anything.
That doesn't make any sense. What else do you call it then? 😕
Who isn't? But anyone who thinks that some zionist world state taking over the world is a possibility in the 21st century is frankly a crack pot who's no better in my eyes than the next 9/11 conspiracy theory nut.
Another absolutely pathetic straw man argument there. 🙄
Don't even know who Kaesae is but you wouldn't last very long on the playground would you?
Lost me there tbh As a grwon up why would I want to have the skills to survive in aplayground where everyone acts in a childish name calling manner? having you considered growing up and leaving it behind you now you are an adult?
Mindset of JunkYard: *Flawed argument has been broken down by a list of FACTS* *RESPONSE NEEDED* "You are someone else! Using a different user name!"
Wow such unbridled arrogance [ Stupidity}
Degree standards have seriously slipped since I got mine then
Bomb attack on the 21st, 24 seriously injured. All innocent civilians. By defending Hamas you are also condoning this action by the way.
Its still a non sequitor not a fact and you cannot win arguments using flawed logic - well maybe in the playground
and...
Now that predictably, this thread and the main protagonists have demeaned their arguments by deciding to start getting personal with the insults, it's now being closed.
