[Closed] Is this racist? Warning: carnival content!

^^^ 😆

[img] [/img]

This always seemed a bit racist to me.

Not trying to fan the flames.....this is a genuine question:

Would it be OK if they had used cardboard masks of the original characters from the film, rather than actually using make-up to make themselves appear black?

While I understand (partly) the history & connotations this may be invoking, surely the context has a lot to do with it?
They are clearly trying to replicate the film Cool Runnings, in a celebratory manner. Is that racist?

If they had decided to do an Absolutely Fabulous float & 3 men had dressed as Patsy, thingy & whotsit from Ab Fab, would it be sexist because women have a history of being discriminated against, harassed, abused and downtrodden by men?
I know this is hypothetical & whatabout-ery, but I was just trying to think of similar situations where people would probably just think 'ah, that's just people having a laugh & dressing up', rather than them being racist/sexist/homophobic etc....

I was just trying to think of similar situations where people would probably just think 'ah, that's just people having a laugh & dressing up', rather than them being racist/sexist/homophobic etc....

[img] [/img]

They are clearly trying to replicate the film Cool Runnings, in a celebratory manner. Is that racist?

I dressed up as Mr T once as a kid, complete with make up to make me look black. I loved A team and Mr T. To tell some kid nowadays they couldn't dress up as their favourite character because of their own colour is racist.

I bet if some black londoners had driven a float through the same parade.... dressed up as welsh militants singing something about owain glyndwr.... whilst ****ing sheep.... the welsh would have been nationally offended.

Id have ****ing laughed though. I mean, its not racist... right? Its just a bit of a laugh.

Drac, see also Ed Balls.

[img] [/img]

What crap.
What this implies is that its not possible any more to create a character that you are not.
I completely fail to see why its wrong. If they want to create that float and are not Jamaican then why not? Its in no way insulting any more than wearing team kit might be. That could be suggesting that you are as good a cyclist as a pro rider or that they are as bad as you.
I would assume that those objecting also object to hair being coloured. All those fake blonds out there are obviously being unpleasant to those of a Nordic background. Is my beard a way of getting at those who wear beards as a religious statement?
Farcical.

Hire a blavk character to play black parts?

Is that so hard?

Also, last time I checked only gingers suffered actual prejudice.

those of a Nordic background

that is too good

What's that white men can't [s]jump [/s] understand racism.
How very unusual...

I frequently dress up as a cyclist.
If any proper cyclists are offended by that I apologise.

I bet if some black londoners had driven a float thtough the same parade.... dressed up as welsh militants singing something about Orwain Glyndur.... whilst * sheep.... the welsh would have been nationally offended.

Id have * laughed though. I mran, its not racist... right? Its just a bit of a laugh.

Well, that would be offensive, because it's offensive.

If a black person had dressed up as Llwyellyn would that have been offensive as the Welsh were oppressed throughout history?

I bet if some black londoners had driven a float thtough the same parade.... dressed up as welsh militants singing something about Orwain Glyndur.... whilst **** sheep.... the welsh would have been nationally offended.

Which well known comedy film would that be from ?

PC GONE MAD, BRO.

Can we just fast forward to the point where everyone accuses everyone else of being racist and close the thread?

Which well known [b]comedy[/b] film would that be from ?

The entire history of welsh nationalism?

I completely fail to see why its wrong.

Yes, you do.

It's not malicious racism. It's extremely poor taste. Read some history then come back to the thread.

How many other things are we going to attach the prefix casual to, in an effort to curtail, control and confine how other express themselves, their creativity, etc. Yes, we can all perceive things differently and be offended, but then, some of us are a bit dim-witted.

Sat here with a Jamaican colleague this morning and showed him this, he laughed, loudly. Is he prejudiced against his fellow countryman for laughing at some white welsh blokes who decided to emulate a pretty amazing achievement and entertaining film?

I would say some need to take a day off, but then the constant high blood pressure may bring about an early demise, which for those of us who have to deal with real issues would be rather nice.

[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface ]Start here[/url]

Blackface is a form of theatrical makeup used predominantly by non-black performers to represent a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the spread of racial stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon".

it's a question of intent and reception.

intent not racist, reception racist.

I love cool runings, i'd definately dress up as Derice or Sanka (they were the cool ones). I definatley would not blackface.

molgrips - Member
I completely fail to see why its wrong.
Yes, you do.

It's not malicious racism. It's extremely poor taste. Read some history then come back to the thread.

So? Taste is subjective. We're going to redefine illegal behaviour within the boundaries of what is tasteful now? Seriously, take a day off.

I love cool runings,

That's the Welsh Druid version, so all you need is the robes and sense of superiority.

I would say some need to take a day off, but then the constant high blood pressure may bring about an early demise, which for those of us who have to deal with real issues would be rather nice.

That's a very arseholey thing to say.

I'm not personally offended. I'm trying to educate you as to why this is poor taste. My blood pressure is fine - not angry just weary.

We're going to redefine illegal behaviour within the boundaries of what is tasteful now? Seriously, take a day off.

I'm not the one calling it a hate crime. It clearly isn't.

If there were two little schoolkids, one black and one white, both dressed up as there favourite characters who happened to be opposite colour to themselves, would either of them be upset at the other?

I highly doubt they would see anything racist or upsetting in this. This is where we as a society need to get to. Sure bad stuff happened in the past, better to leave it there and let the younger generations get on with things rather than hold them accountable for the generations before them.

Older people may get offended in the meantime, I say let them get on with being offended. They will die off eventually as will the racists leaving everyone else free from the baggage.

molgrips - Member
It's not malicious racism. It's extremely poor taste.

And I still think it's a shame folk can't disguise themselves as their favourite characters without being called out for it.

This may well be true, but they weren't mocking anyone, they were celebrating them.

oh dear, we're descending quickly, get out while ye can, abandon hope all ye who post here...

Checked this with my Mrs. In her opinion, the problem is exaggerated by history of white treatment towards black people where historical portrayal of black people by white people would be derogatory at best.

It's therefore in bad taste. They could have easily portrayed the film as white people and everyone would have got the message.

If there were two little schoolkids, one black and one white, both dressed up as there favourite characters who happened to be opposite colour to themselves, would either of them be upset at the other?

I highly doubt they would see anything racist or upsetting in this. This is where we as a society need to get to. Sure bad stuff happened in the past, better to leave it there and let the younger generations get on with things rather than hold them accountable for the generations before them.

As long as they didn't use memes?

km79 - Member
If there were two little schoolkids, one black and one white, both dressed up as there favourite characters who happened to be opposite colour to themselves, would either of them be upset at the other?

Simple enough terms for you?

They could have easily portrayed the film as white people and everyone would have got the message.

Wow, I bet you're fun at parties...

...jokes, I know you don't get invited to them.

There's a reasonable school of thought that says that a forum that is predominantly white, and therefore has very likely never been or will be subject to racism, shouldn't attempt to define what is or isn't racist.

Doesn't mean it's a bad idea to discuss it rather than hide it under the carpet until it goes away though.

No, it's pointing out that being black is still a disadvantage in many areas of society.

Then that's what needs addressing, rather than a couple of Welsh lads cosplaying in a carnival.

I completely fail to see why its wrong.

I completely understand why people think it's wrong. I just disagree.

It is perhaps ill-conceived as it was surely going to get this reaction. But screaming "racist" because folk used to use ridiculously over-the-top blackface make-up to parody / stereotype / oppress black people two hundred years ago is something of a stretch. If anything, it dilutes and diverts attention from people who are actually racist.

you know this for a fact? How? Could equally be a bunch of lads taking the piss because they think it's funny, and that they think they can get away with it.

Of course I don't. Do you know it isn't?

It seems the most likely explanation to me. It would seem unlikely that a group of lads would go to the trouble of building a float based on a movie celebrating the success of a Jamaican sporting team and dressing up as the characters in the film because they hate black people. TBH I doubt that a bunch of racists would have even watched the film in the first place.

[quote=thestabiliser ]Can we just fast forward to the point where everyone accuses everyone else of being racist and close the thread?

racist

Depending on where they live one of them would have a much higher chance of being stopped by the police for no reason, be attacked or abused, in the US being shot while innocently going about their business, being harassed and discriminated against by a society still run by white men.

Does that mean I can't cosplay as the 13th Doctor because of the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia?

As long as they didn't use memes?

It's therefore in bad taste. They could have easily portrayed the film as white people and everyone would have got the message.

Bloke paints his face to look like movie character? Check.
Misappropriates an oppressed culture to which he doesn't belong? Check.
Does it purely for the enterainment of others? Check.
Throws in a big chunk of historical inaccuracy for good measure? Check.

[img] ?resize=1100x740[/img]

To be fair, Mel Gibson is a bit of a racist

nah, it's only racist when you use them.

Thought so cheers for the clarification.

Bloke paints his face to look like movie character? Check.
Misappropriates an oppressed culture to which he doesn't belong? Check.
Does it purely for the enterainment of others? Check.
Throws in a big chunk of historical inaccuracy for good measure? Check.

Loons think it's a documentary. Check.

😉

[quote=Drac ]It's a bit of an odd thing to do as society has moved on

The trouble is that society hasn't moved on sufficiently far. If we lived in a society where there was no discrimination and there weren't people wanting to abuse other people simply because of the colour of their skin then it wouldn't be a problem.

It shouldn't be a problem and it shouldn't be any different to people doing blueface to be smurfs or yellowface to be minions. I'm sure those doing it meant no offence and most people took none. I'd certainly not be at all offended and I doubt any of the non-white people I know would be either. But unfortunately you can't simply ignore the historical context of blackface when the background problems still exist.

It seems the most likely explanation to me. It would seem unlikely that a group of lads would go to the trouble of building a float based on a movie celebrating the success of a Jamaican sporting team and dressing up as the characters in the film because they hate black people.

Did they find a skinny black man to put on a fat suit and pale makeup to be John Candy's character?