Terrible roads, awful public transport, crumbling schools, squalid housing for millions of people, prisons so bad European states will not extradite criminals, councils going bust, a neofeudal land 'distribution' system, no tax for the extremely wealthy, the capital city awash with dirty money, criminally inept but unaccountable governemnt, etc., a captive media owned by a handful of billionaires, the list goes on and on. At the end of almost forteen years of 'austerity', Brexit, etc., the chickens seem to well and truly coming home to roost. Is this a terminal decline or are we at the crest where this wave of stunning decline finally breaks?
Not third world, but it has been noticeably slipping, imo, since 2018.
I return sporadically and am struck each time by the apparent decline.
A failed state. A banana republic without the sun
Most of the op has been true for many years.
Third world no, run down yes.
Banana republic, with highly corrupt politicians feathering their own nests might be a closer description.
Not 3rd world, but on a par with Greece or Italy.
i think we've had delusions of grandeur for some time
austerity was a terrible mistake
We were discussing this and agreed it probably peaked around 2012 at the time of the Olympics....been downhill every since sadly. At this point, I'm struggling to see how it can recover but I don't think it's hit rock bottom yet
The UK is definitely moving in that direction.
In real terms LA funding by central gov has been cut by 50% since 2010 and there's a continuing devolution of responsibility from central to local gov - do more with less.
Tory gov has no interest in slowing or stopping the decline - they'll be out at the next GE so, from their perspective...cream it while you can.
Starmer & co don't, I fear, have any real grasp of the scale of the problems they will inherit - nor does anyone else.
I'm not convinced by MMT but it's clear that adherence to 'balancing the books' will do nothing to help a Lab gov.
In some senses the dismal state of the UK and an electoral shagging for the tories could well lead to their return next time around - starmer/corbyn/wilson have had a go but we still haven't got to the sunlit uplands so...let the other lot have another go.
What a mess.
Terminal decline.
Banana republic - without bananas so here...suck these lemons.
A semi collapsed society, one step removed Mad Max.
We do now seem to be in a death spiral where 13 years of failed policy, flagrant corruption, rank incompetence and corporate profiteering are all coming home to roost at the same time
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down. The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet. Wibbling about failed states just shows you have no idea what a failed state is and haven't seen how people in poor countries live.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Its not a competition. Just because there’s a lot worse in the world doesn’t change the facts here
The present UK political and economic system is utterly dysfunctional and totally unsustainable, but we are ‘governed’* by utterly corrupt clowns who benefit from keeping it that way
* the word is used figuratively in this instance
shittier ice cream
If you insist on buying the runny plastic stuff from a roadside van. I buy tubs at my local farm shop produced by a company who makes theirs from their own cows, they’re about twelve miles from me. There’s another farm just outside of Lacock which produces their own as well, it’s of equally outstanding quality, it’s just further away from my local shop on the edge of town.
Like many things, there’s quality to be found, if you only look for it. Like beer, whiskey, wine… Which, by the way, France is struggling to sell, and is tearing up large numbers of vineyards as a result.
We also have some amazing food
And an amazing network of food banks to cater for the millions who can’t afford to buy it
Yay us!
Starmer & co don’t, I fear, have any real grasp of the scale of the problems they will inherit
I hope/think they do and this is why he's not making any real policy pledges yet with regards to spending.
For me the problem is that all these massive issues require long term planning and management but politicians of all colours are fixed on the next election cycle . The whole system is broken and and needs rethinking, put someone in charge of the NHS who actually understands what is required to run a health service , doesn't need to be a politician, and not just someone who is the prime ministers mate . What the hell does Grant Shapps know about national defense, what are his qualifications or experience that makes him suitable.
Might be time for a benevolent dictatorship.
The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet
Are those rose tinted spectacles available on NHS prescription ?
"we have fresh water on tap, good healthcare and good infrastructure"
... where 20%+ of the water piiiises out the pipes before getting to the user. Where that good heathcare is a location based lottery with the worst cancer survival rates in Europe, and where murdering staff go ignored by management
And the infrastructure? FFS. Have you driven on the roads lately?.or taken a high speed train anywhere (unlikely given we have a total of 68 miles of it when places like Turkey have 10x that?)
We're left behind by so called 3rd world countries for that.
We still have fresh water on tap.
We have good healthcare, it’s certainly not third world levels.
Drove to work tonight yes, used the trains yesterday.
None of those suggested I was in a third world country because the train wasn’t high speed.
Neglected by the rich elite landlords who govern us and lined their and their mates pockets. One of my mates came over from Oz last week, left in 2002, and commented how tatty the place looked.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
Is Mississippi Really as Poor as Britain?
i think we’ve had delusions of grandeur for some time
I think we’ve had delusions of adequacy for some time.
politecameraaction - you wrote...
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down. The UK remains one of the most developed and comfortable countries on the planet. Wibbling about failed states just shows you have no idea what a failed state is and haven’t seen how people in poor countries live.
Your post is complete
bollocksnonsense other than 'The UK is a shambles...'
How and when will it become less shambolic?
How close have you been to a failed state? No, didn't think so.I would say that, at best, the UK could be described as a second world country; a former third world country with ever-declining performance, structures, standards, economy and legislative standards.
Assessing whether or not the UK is becoming a third world country depends, in part, on what you're measuring against.
What's your reference point?
Measured against, say, North Somalia the UK would appear to be wealthy, successful, democratic.
That's not saying much, if anything, is it?
The town I live in has 40% of its children living in poverty.60% in my adjacent council ward.I call that third world.
I'll let you know in December, I'm coming back from Sydney for my first visit in 4 years.
looking forward to some percy pigs.
Edit: oh..... and seeing family.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
but according to that article britain is outperforming most of europe including germany, so is germany also poorer than mississippi? the author is a former conservative MP, criticises policy to reduce carbon emission because it makes british exports to expensive to be competitive even though, as he states, british exports are increasing outside of the EU and finally, was a founding member of the leave campaign.
he could be right, though.
The UK is a shambles at the moment, and there is some appalling poverty, but some of you melodramatic people need a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
This.
Also, lots of people need to do some reading and apply some more up to date terminology than third-world.
The town I live in has 40% of its children living in poverty.60% in my adjacent council ward.I call that third world.
Poverty is not the same thing the world over.
That level of poverty is totally unacceptable but it doesn't put us on a par with the least developed countries.
I think we're seeing the results of, since 2010, a concerted effort by a group of politicians who are venal, corrupt, self serving and have no other plan, or manifesto other than to horde power, line their pockets and those of their friends and benefactors with obscene amounts of cash while starving the nation of the funds it needs to run its institutions and public services properly. And simultaneously enacting a failed fantasy policy that was never tethered to reality and who's obvious hypocrisies are coming home to roost.
Let that stew for a decade or more, and no country can carry on forever.
Having said that, there'll be a peaceful exchange of power next year to a different govt, and the work to slowly rebuild will start. Which is the tell that we don't live in a failed state. I think what has gone wrong is that we've revealed that if a govt is determined enough to go beyond the norms of behaviours (breaking international law in a limited and specific way...etc etc) that we don't have strong enough public institutions to hold them account while they they're in power, we should probably do something about that.
We're definitely not 3rd World, nowhere near but we are slipping back rapidly from being a developed country to one that needs redeveloping to catch up. Our whole infrastructure needs urgent overhauling, the NHS is in danger of collapsing at the next crisis, our political system is severely broken and law and order are close to no longer fully functioning. All issues that can be solved with the correct political will but unlikely to be a short-term project.
We are a victim of thinking (as a whole) that we are great since around the 80s when other countries have been overtaking us while we stood still. We have lots of catching up to do and it's going to be a hard effort to do that as the target is constantly moving.
I would say that, at best, the UK could be described as a second world country;
Assessing whether or not the UK is becoming a third world country depends, in part, on what you’re measuring against.
What’s your reference point?
Have a look at this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
We have indeed fallen by that measure but we're still in the top bracket and still 18th in the world.
Things aren't great here right now but lets not get cartied away and in particular, lets not belittle the suffering of those who really are at the bottom of the global pile by suggesting that what we're experiencing is the same.
The UK is still one the of the better countries but what has changed is that it has got worse than it was say 20 years ago. It is now a place with worse services and a higher cost of living (driven primarily by ridiculous house/rent prices using up so much income and very difficult to reverse)
It is simply just a more expensive place to live while also being not such a good place to live.
If the UK was a US state, it would be right at the bottom of the heap.
High school geography tells us why comparing single indicators (GDP p/c in this case) is misleading. If you look at the HDI rankings the UK is above the USA as a whole.
Some people really don’t understand the world if they think 1. That the uk is 3rd world or 2. The Conservative Party has made things as bad as they are and Labour will make everything rosey again.
Take a trip to the USA to see a country much more screwed up than we are and that is the richest country in the world ? People living in wooden shacks, clear racism around jobs that people do, ping out shooting your fellow citizens is almost considered a sport
Humans as a race are greedy we want more. How far you get up that greasy pole depends on where you are lucky enough to be born.
When Labour come in next year (if they have a single policy) they could tax all income ant 60% and solve all our issues. Except that’s not what everyone in this country wants.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Its a shit state of affairs but it doesn’t indicate a failed state. In a failed state a regional government that was bankrupt would be left to its own devices. That won't happen here.
The biggest council in the country has just declared itself bankrupt. 20 more are said to be on the brink of doing the same
I’d say that’s the very definition of a failed state
Absolute rubbish. By definition there even being a functioning legal process to declare bankruptcy precludes it being a failed state.
"Failed state" is a specific term for the most extreme examples of state collapse where the state has lost control of security (not a rise in an antisocial behaviour, we're talking warlords and guys with guns on pickup trucks), it's borders and basically has no functioning institutions of any kinds. To even seriously suggest the UK is a failed state or close to a failed state is hysterical nonsense. There are very few truly failed states and when it happens it's terrifying.
There are many deep, systemic issues for sure but this kind of hyperbole is just ridiculous.
It sounds like it’s poor Labour management though (just for balance) that has caused the issues in Birmingham
All issues that can be solved with the correct political will but unlikely to be a short-term project.
Yep, it’s all solvable but the people at the top have no intention/desire to sort it out.
It’s fine if your not on the bottom 🙁
"austerity was a terrible mistake"
Very much this, and corruption of the politicians during covid, and that politicians are so focused on ideology they can't/don't see the fact they need to invest to make services work. Or cynically they need to break the systems in order to wholesale change them (local authorities, social care, NHS).
Yes services are far worse now than about 20 years ago, and there could have been improvements then. But I'm with spin and politecameraaction, how poverty is determined here is different to elsewhere, and while not acceptable in our society, it is comparable to other countries. We are definitely not in the so-called 'third world' or developing country bracket for quality of life and services. There are a lot of very rich people and a lot of people struggling to put a roof over their head and feed their kids, but pretty much every society has that. I think we should do more, but that will mean Government spending your hard earned as taxes.
Let them eat cake.
Third world is being overdramatic, by quite some distance.
Its certainly a failing state, failing it's people, failing it's potential, and storing up future problems.
It sounds like it’s poor Labour management though (just for balance) that has caused the issues in Birmingham
LA funding has been cut by 50% under austerity, at a tume when they were expected to deliver more and more services. That's not the councils fault, and previous council failures have been led by both parties.
