[Closed] Is the African famine a natural cycle?

There's a 'my Dad's bigger than yours' kids' playground style of argument going on here:

Poster 1: I know more about Africa than you do.
Poster 2: Oh no you don't. I saw Africa on a map once.
Poster 1: Yeah? Well my Dad buys Fair Trade coffee...
Poster 2L Yeah? Well my Dad owns a Peter Gabriel CD...

PS. Willy still waving.

camo16, you make a wise observation.

i think i win though, my MD is from those parts and i've seen Ladysmith live 3 times.

and my willy is massive.

OK OP question Is it part of a "Natural Cycle"? Nope.
There is very little Natural about it, Somalia illustrates the injustices of the world and the jaw dropping ability of the "1st world" to ignore the plight of the "3rd World" until it is far too late...

My own take on it is that the current situation is a "Confluence of Circumstance" some natural: Drought, lack of natural resources, but mostly man made; 20+ years of Civil War, followed by a largely useless government, Militant factions hampering Aid efforts and those Governments with resources, both western and those in the region turning a blind eye where their interests weren't particularly well served, all of that has gotten Somalia to this point...

Thinking in the Wider global Socio-economic sense this is a massive Kick in the Knackers for everyone of course; what will of course follow is a decade or two of "Fallout"; Displaced people, Fighting, plenty of radicalisation, Resources Diverted to the region to try and Cope, and a couple of failed attempts to "rebuild" the country, all costing lives and Money...

Still once it's all shaken out in another 15 odd years, I'm sure some little corner of Somalia can be turned over to the production of Avacados for some smug ****er in the UK to add to his Salads, so it's not all bad...

i forgot to mention i've watched both, yes both 'the last king of scotland' and 'blood diamond' on DVD.

i also listen to 'urban music'

I lived in a proper African country for three years. I win.

Hang on a mo', guys... we'll need a mod to adjudicate on this issue...

philconsequence has impeccable credentials and, in my opinion, anyone who's watched the whole of Last King of Scotland should win outright, no questions asked. Having said that, clubber's actually lived in Africa...

Tough one to judge.

For my two pence, I know somebody from South Africa quite well. And I've got both an Ismaël Lô and a Hugh Masekela CD.

If only I had a massive willy.

I've designed mobile phone networks for most of them* - does that count?

* countries in Africa.

I know where Africa is.

Post re-calibrated.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14078074 ]Some self-calibration required on this thread[/url]

thank you camo, although i can imagine it wont be too long before a mod has to step into this thread anyway.

i'm also sensitive to the flight of the jews having watched schindlers lift... in fact i'm so damn sensitive i wear plaster on my nipples...but back to the point;

i've dated a south african (when i say dated... i mean 'inserted my penis into for several weeks whilst working out if i wanted to stop doing so cos she was racist' and sitting in the room next to me is a honest to god african.

did i mention the size of my willy yet?

You did and I believe you. Unless anyone else has a full house, first prize goes to philconsequence.

First prize is a crate of African export goods and a one way ticket to Addis Ababa.

OK OP question Is it part of a "Natural Cycle"? Nope.
There is very little Natural about it, Somalia illustrates the injustices of the world and the jaw dropping ability of the "1st world" to ignore the plight of the "3rd World" until it is far too late...

but mostly man made; 20+ years of Civil War, followed by a largely useless government, Militant factions hampering Aid efforts and those Governments with resources, both western

Bit of a conflict there, is it the militia & warlords shafting their own people and country and discouraging the '1st world' from acting in a stronger fashion, or the '1st world' fault to start with? It's like if you walk past people getting beaten up the street and don't do anything is it your fault it's happening?

The natural cycle I was referring to is if people in these countries have always had larger families knowing that things like the famine etc. come along and will take some of the children. If all the children were to survive would the country be able to handle the population boom? That coupled with advances in medicine meaning that people do live longer.

LHS - Member
Some self-calibration required on this thread

What the **** are you doing? - the STW comic collective on a roll the last thing we need is "Grown ups" reminding us that there are actually Toddlers wasting away and Dying...

Nah being a crass twunt is always, without failure ****ing Hilarious...

I just spat my donut over the keyboard reading your post cookeaa.

Its called self-calibration, if you want to continue being a fool then you can choose to do so, don't let the adults stop you having fun.

LHS - It's a bit like Comic Relief really, isn't it?

i was given a hug by an african this morning for being a good boss.

self-calibration sounds like a term used by some kinda engineer or summink, i prefer - "go reflect on what you've said you idiot and work on your self-awareness!"

calling someone a "crass twunt" is just offensive, if you reflected and worked on your self-awareness you wouldn't need to resort to personal attacks.

I used to self-calibrate but now I've got someone to do it for me...

LHS - It's a bit like Comic Relief really, isn't it?

Yes, its exactly like it, good spot.

Dobbo - Member

Bit of a conflict there, is it the militia & warlords shafting their own people and country and discouraging the '1st world' from acting in a stronger fashion, or the '1st world' fault to start with? It's like if you walk past people getting beaten up the street and don't do anything is it your fault it's happening?

The manner in which the colonial powers ran the countries before independence played a massive part in the wars/genoicide which caused the displacement of people etc etc.

Belgium and Rawanda is a prime example of this.

Just popped back into this thread and I have two comments:

1. The African issues raised in this thread are, quite clearly, mind-bogglingly sad and even more mind-bogglingly complex. This much is clear.

My second comment is a little tricker. It relates to perception, self-perception and self-image.

2. The problem with a Chat Forum is that people tend to, well, chat on it. Normally this isn't an issue. But on threads relating to horrific events, such as the Africa famine, posters seem to divide into two distinct groups: (1) those who wish to promulgate their solemnity and broadcast their earnest quest for knowledge and (2) those who appreciate a more light-hearted method of communication.

That's all it is - a variance of approach.

Personally, I dislike the 'crass twunt' comment intensely. It suggests that a serious post is intended only for those who wish to broadcast their earnestness... which reduces this thread basically to an Open University platform or a preacher's pulpit...

BOTTOM LINE: I am not making light of the famine in Africa... but I cannot measure up to those who require earnest threads to have nothing but earnest posts by earnest people who want everyone on STW to understand just how earnest they are.

Being earnest is important. So I'm told.

A Haaaaaannnndbbbbbaaaaaagg?

Only if you're called Earnest.

camo16 +1

No one has said anything that I'd consider crass. I consider holier than thou slacktivism more offensive as it goes. You know, the sort of people who post things on their fb status asking people to do the same to show how much they care which does precisely nothing while many who might do much more but not shout about it (or come across all serious about it) are seemingly considered less caring.

how dare you camo16, that's 2 comments too many, how very dare you.

see, the thing is... like any horrific event, circumstance or experience; unless you've been through it personally then all you can do is comment from your limited contact with 'facts'. i've not been through what the many millions who have suffered in Africa and around the world have been through, so as a result i'm not going to sit here and pretend i know what's best or assume i know more than another poster on the subject.

i will however look forward to spending more time with people who have escaped the 'horrors' in their countries of origin and are now here in the UK, i value their opinion and experience as its their families who are back home in the situations that STW can comfortably comment on from their desks of righteousness.

calling someone a "crass twunt" is just offensive, if you reflected and worked on your self-awareness you wouldn't need to resort to personal attacks.

Boo ****ing Hoo...

It's OK to take the piss out of those who show an ounce of Empathy, but using a bit of strong language is an STW no no eh?
Best file a Hurt feelings form with your line manager, make a cup of Chamomile tea, and suck it up flower...

[I]"Reflected and worked on your self awareness"[/I] - Eh? What new age, double dutch manner of bullshit are you on about? are you trying to tell me to stop taking a subject which you quite clearly think is a bit of a giggle so seriously?

To be fair it wasn't strictly personal it was aimed at all of those acting like Crass Twunt, if you took offense that probably indicates it applies to you... Someone apparently unmoved by famine victims strikes me as a touch Crass.

I think the most dismaying thing is that the STW mods have failed to add "Twunt" to the swear filter, but I will no doubt get a curt telling off email in due course, all because of their oversight....

What new age, double dutch manner of bullshit are you on about

dont worry flower 😆

philconsequence - Member
camo16, you make a wise observation.

i think i win though, my MD is from those parts and i've seen Ladysmith live 3 times.

and my willy is massive.

philconsequence - Member
i forgot to mention i've watched both, yes both 'the last king of scotland' and 'blood diamond' on DVD.

i also listen to 'urban music'

philconsequence - Member
thank you camo, although i can imagine it wont be too long before a mod has to step into this thread anyway.

i'm also sensitive to the flight of the jews having watched schindlers lift... in fact i'm so damn sensitive i wear plaster on my nipples...but back to the point;

i've dated a south african (when i say dated... i mean 'inserted my penis into for several weeks whilst working out if i wanted to stop doing so cos she was racist' and sitting in the room next to me is a honest to god african.

did i mention the size of my willy yet?

I don't see that any of those comments could tell you that he's "Someone apparently unmoved by famine victims"

All the joke comments on this thread as far as I can see are aimed at those that are trying to portray themselves as more empathic/involved/knowledgeable than everyone else. Not at the plight of those affected by the famine.

Isn't this old news?

I suppose this is the natural cycle of mankind.

Where is Bob Geldof swearing on telly?

🙄

Oh I see Clubber...

My mistake then, foolishly I thought that taking the piss out of those who state an actual opinion, and then implying that their being "Earnest" or taking something seriously was just knee jerk political correctness, might mean these hillarious ****ers don't really give a shit...

But clearly this is my mistake, how dare I hold an opinion...

Don't worry though I promise to even it out, I'll drop in to a cancer ward on the way home and Laugh long and hard in each and every patients face, When the staff ask me to leave I'll just tell them to "lighten up, it's only a ****ing Joke"...

Dobbo - Member

.....leaving out the emotional aspects

Why on earth would you discuss an issue such as famine and leave out the "emotional aspect" ?

Unless you are indeed a "crass twunt".

Famine and its tragic consequences to humans, plus the response of other humans to it, all require an emotional reaction.

If you can't consider the "emotional aspects" when discussing famine, then it would probably be better if you didn't discuss it all.

yes it is its been repeating its self thorough out history, why the **** its the western worlds responsibility to sort it out i could not tell you... probably middle class guilt or some shit like that, though i could never figure out why so many middle class people felt guilty as they ant got **** all them selves.

yes it is its been repeating its self thorough out history, why the * its the western worlds responsibility to sort it out i could not tell you... probably middle class guilt or some shit like that, though i could never figure out why so many middle class people felt guilty as they ant got * all them selves.

I can see your sociology PHD Thesis is going to be a masterpiece...

though i could never figure out why so many middle class people felt guilty

Has anyone ever said to you that they feel guilty?

cookeaa, your 'oh I see Clubber' post is bewildering in the extreme.

1. There was no p•ss taking about those who hold opinions, but maybe a little gentle commentary on those who use this forum to underline their earnestness. In this sense, earnestness is an appropriate word, not a term of abuse.

2. "How dare I hold an opinion?" I don't think I can even comment on that one...

3. Comparing the STW Chat Forum to a cancer ward? Really?

Without wishing to start an argument, can I suggest that you reread all comments in this thread again?

My mistake then, foolishly I thought that taking the piss out of those who state an actual opinion, and then implying that their being "Earnest" or taking something seriously was just knee jerk political correctness, might mean these hillarious **** don't really give a shit...

That's not what was being taken the piss out of.

foolishly I thought that taking the piss out of those who state an actual opinion, and then implying that their being "Earnest" or taking something seriously was just knee jerk political correctness, might mean these hillarious * don't really give a shit...

But clearly this is my mistake, how dare I hold an opinion...

that is a mistake.. its an assumption, not an opinion.

I'll drop in to a cancer ward on the way home and Laugh long and hard in each and every patients face, When the staff ask me to leave I'll just tell them to "lighten up, it's only a * Joke".

laughter is pretty good for relieving stress, and stress impacts negatively on those trying to not die from cancer... unless you mean you're going to go and laugh AT the cancer patients? which, unless i'm missing something, isn't comparable to what's happened in this thread so far.

you seem to really care about this subject which is commendable i suppose, i hope you turn that passion into action to help.

unless you mean you're going to go and laugh AT the cancer patients?

you seem to really care about this subject which is commendable i suppose, i hope you turn that passion into action to help.

First sensible suggestion, you know what I think I actually will...

As for the rest, I'm sure your pedantry is spot on, and all the ****tery was "Meant in jest", just don't think you lot are particularly funny, personal taste and all, Group Hug?

TTFN...

I was hoping for a daisy chain but a group hug will do. Kiss kiss.

it was my only suggestion 😀

i dont normally hug people who refer to my work on here as '****tery', but if you promise to make it a proper man hug with the compulsary awkward 3 firm pats on the back then i promise not to whisper something sexy in your ear

😀 fair play to you dude, its evident you feel strongly about it all and its refreshing to engage with people who care!

Why on earth would you discuss an issue such as famine and leave out the "emotional aspect" ?

Unless you are indeed a "crass twunt".

Perhaps so you could look at the some of the facts that lie behind the issue that emotional input is not needed to view at times, and does if anything tint. I would have thought that all subjects can be looked at with and without emotion, and benefit from doing so, unless you are indeed a thick twunt.

And here we go...

Hugs from me... to all.

Oops, forgot to add a 🙄

Hugs from me... to all.