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It wasn't us that decided to pay nearly 2500 council officials over £150,000, it wasn't us that decided to privatise the NHS with private finance initiatives that would cost it a fortune for ever after, it wasn't us that decided to introduce student debt to University Graduates rather than have them do the jobs in the summer fruit picking that all these immigrants you moan about do, the point is, you all have so much more that needs paying for and it is your turn to step up to the plate and get taxed at the level we were in the sixties, no, I don't suppose you even remember at what level that was, all our poor pop stars had to leave the country, google the Beatles 'Taxman' recording of the Heath Wilson years, three day weeks, rubbish piled high, shitty cars, shitty industrial relations, it's in your history books now, but we had to live with it all, so lets have less of the soak the boomers, you lot haven't even begun to experience the sort of 'austerity' that we endured.
You do know that this started with Fatcha who was born in 1925 don't you? Not in the 80's - her policies were then carried on by Major...oh I'm sorry....wasn't he a boomer?
And your anecdotes belay the macroeconomic reality that is the ratio of people working and paying taxes - to those retired is becoming unsustainable. It happened in Japan, it's happening here.
Also, in terms of not paying enough Tax, we've always hovered around the same value in terms of % of GDP.
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Although income tax was higher in the 60's, especially for high earners - but boomers would never vote for a Tory party who brought back similar tax rates.
Interesting to note Millibands Labour stance was around about Hitler and the ground normally covered by true, one nation conservatism
I call Godwin. Close this thread of hate.
We are still ricocheting from the results of the war, really.
jamba> I have lost interest posting the same explanations again and again
You say that, but here you are. Still. As it says in the country song - "How can I miss you, when you won't go away?".
If I am totally honest I am bored to tears with this. I told @tmh if he stays away I will too, I need to be more disciplined. As you can see I am here much less as its just repeating the same stuff.
I told @tmh if he stays away I will too,
Promises, promises.
Jamba - leave then. It's what you do isn't it? 😉
Jamba is a worthwhile contributor on here. We need balanced opinions and he is always polite. Unlike THM.
Guys - I disagree with Jamba on virtually everything but you are verging on bullying him.
respect for those who show it as he does.
he wants to stay away but not half as much as he wants the thread to be about him 😉
As for polite yes he is but his views are not. THM, who i rarely agreed with him was a great example of how one could be right wing and reject nationalism and oppose racism.
I cannot say the same thing about jamby who views on Islam would leave him apoplectic with rage if I repeated them but about Jews.
Essentially jamby is more Trump in his use of facts than any other poster on here and that is why he gets the attention he does and for no other reason
I bet the trump points out he is always right as well 😉
If I am totally honest I am bored to tears with this
Maybe you should try listening for once.
ps did you ever find a reputable source to back up your French fascist accusations? or did you just decide to brush it under the carpet like every other time you are wrong.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/and-we-accuse-our-police-of-corruption/page/2
#jambaheroinhisownlunchtime
TJ - the last comment was me joking about a leaver (a Brexy) threatening to leave. Surely that's not bullying.
My earlier comment was simply pointing out that for all the protestations about people throwing the word racist out there, Jamba himself has made some comments that might be very easy to interpret as racism. I pointed them out at the time(s) and others who know him personally vouched for him not being a a racist. I'll accept that and just ask that he chooses his words wisely. Friendly advice isn't bullying. And if he is in any way feeling intimidated by my words, I trust he isn't, then one PM and I give my word I'll tone it down.
Now that said I do detest what the Brexies have done to a country that I care about in the name of (at best) nationalism. They have created problems that will last for generations and I hope they will go to their graves regretting it - but I doubt they will because I suspect they ain't that sort of people. Hope I'm wrong.
The "Hitler" aside was used to point out that his regime of pure evil is often trotted out as an example of ultra right wing authoratism, it was said to point out their place on the political spectrum. It was not meant to parallel Nazism to New Labour or One Nation Conservatism.
If one wants to draw parallel with how trades unions, unemployed and the disabled are currently treated, however...
igm - it was not aimed at anyone specifically - just at the "ganging up" appearance from multiple people attacking the man not the words.
My point is that as he shows respect by not being intemperate nor attacking people then surely he is worthy of the same respect - unlike THM who used personal attacks all the time
TJ 's reet ya knaaaa
Something is happening- Jamba flouncing! Labour/Corbyn must be doing well!
I disagree, I think THM and Jamba play from the same "debating club" rulebook, winning is more important than being right, and they are very successful at undermining their opposing viewpoints by attacking the man, while claiming to be the victims. I think they also know very well what people care about, so quite deliberately choose to ignore which points are being made against them.
That being said it was quite interesting to see them go head to head in the brexit debate.
no to earn respect he needs to use facts, accept when he has got them wrong and as IGM notes stop using language that has led some to mistake him for a racist[ he did play the race card on the EU thread and shamelessly] as I said he is trump like and he gets treated like trump would if he gave up twitter and joined here.as he shows respect by not being intemperate nor attacking people then surely he is worthy of the same respect
Yes he is not rude whilst doing all this but that misses the point.
I also think you should stop bashing THM at this point i would not have tolerated him doing this to you when you were banned and I wont this way round either. STOP its not fair.
defend jamby if you must [ its one the daftest things i have seen you do] but leave THM out of this he is not here to defend himself and we all know what you think of him
Indeed teej, enough of us defended you when you weren't around. You'd do well to keep your counsel on this one as JY advises.
Point taken chaps.
Something is happening- Jamba flouncing! Labour/Corbyn must be doing well!
🙂
As I posted a few weeks ago politics isn't that interesting at the moment. The election is going to be an easy Tory win, its's a case of by how much - 50, 100 or 150 seats ? Nothing is going to happen on Brexit till after the German elections in October.
Au contraire, politics is very interesting at present. Yes the Tories look like getting a landslide, but something else is happening.
The landscape is shifting somehow. This might well be the last Tory government for s long time. In simple terms the will win, they will fail, and they will be consigned to history for sometime.
But if by boring you mean, who's going to win in June. Fair enough.
And that many Brexies are that old they probably don't care about the next election.
Au contraire, politics is very interesting at present. Yes the Tories look like getting a landslide, but something else is happening.
One of the biggest things that happened was people felt more comfortable expressing what used to be extreme or unpleasant views post Brexit, problem is people are pointing them out for what they are now. Hopefully a backlash against the sort of xenophobic and racist beliefs will kick in, it will probably be too late in some areas where they wills till be blaming the wrong people as their communities die.
tjagain - Member
igm - it was not aimed at anyone specifically - just at the "ganging up" appearance from multiple people attacking the man not the words.
Look, I'm all for playing the ball and not the man. However, Jamby uses lies and mistruths to deliberately derail and undermine debate. He openly supports public figures who continually espouse racist, or at the very least, xenophobic viewpoints. There eventually becomes a point when the ball and the man become one and the same. I really struggle to see how someone who so openly understands and supports the socially destructive and harmful policies of the Tories / UKIP can be a pleasant person to be around. For me, his apparent lack of empathy for the less fortunate is unconscionable.
As far as I, and it appears many others are concerned, he's shot his bolt when it comes to political threads. The reason it appears that we're ganging up on him is that he's one person exhibiting behaviours that an awful lot of us are frankly more than a little tired of. I accept that without opposing viewpoints then any debate becomes a bit of an echo chamber, but there are ways of putting those viewpoints across, and also ways of accepting criticism when it's due for holding said points of view.
I'm OK with Jamba's comments. He can say what he likes, I don't have to believe it if I don't want to. I'm not sure what the problem is tbh.
Yes. I'd love there to be proper constructive political debate from both sides.
@molgrips - that would be nice, but i found a quote online which summarises political threads on here quite well.
“Supporters of Labour and other left wing parties are convinced they have the moral high ground and that any disagreement is inhumane, as a result any confession of Tory support is shouted down and abused.”
Just because someone shares some beliefs with UKIP or the Tories doesn't make them inherently evil, it probably just means some life experience has shaped their views that way.
I'm OK with Jamba's comments. He can say what he likes, I don't have to believe it if I don't want to. I'm not sure what the problem is tbh.
The problem, as zokes said, is not that jamba has differing opinions or philosophies. It is that he presents fibs and half-truths as facts and then runs away. Whether that matters on an MTB website is debatable, but we can see the results of the same process on politics on a large scale and it is quite worrying.
It is that he presents fibs and half-truths as facts and then runs away
I agree that is kind of disappointing.
And his bizarre opinion that just because he predicted the results of recent elections and votes, this somehow makes him right all the time about everything
“Supporters of Labour and other left wing parties are convinced they have the moral high ground and that any disagreement is inhumane, as a result any confession of Tory support is shouted down and abused.”
It really does sum things up very well, doesn't it!
You only need to look how so many of them get upset about being disparagingly referred to as 'lefties' to see the hypocrisy in action.
Just because someone shares some beliefs with UKIP or the Tories doesn't make them inherently evil,
I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just leave it as ignorance.
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They are picking on me again
It really does sum things up very well, doesn't it!
It certainly sums something up. What that something is - that's another matter.
It really does sum things up very well, doesn't it!
You're right, it does some it up well: It sums up the arrogance and prejudice of Tories and UKIPers very well indeed. I suppose you had to be right about something at some point.
Just because someone shares some beliefs with UKIP or the Tories doesn't make them inherently evil,
Not evil, just prejudiced and lacking in any empathy. I suppose as more empathetic people we should feel for them due to their genetic issues or bad life experiences.
“Supporters of Labour and other left wing parties are convinced they have the moral high ground and that any disagreement is inhumane, as a result any confession of Tory support is shouted down and abused.”
A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there's a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.
If that's not cause for quite correctly claiming some form of moral high ground, then I don't know what is.
Given the number of studies highlighting that those of a right wing disposition are on average educated to a lower level, I might also accept ignorance rather than a lack of empathy for defending Tories.
A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there's a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.
Well, there actually _is_ a magic money tree. Now that no-one is on the gold standard anymore, the Bank of England (and all other central banks) are essentially magic money trees, backed up impressive looking buildings, the paraphernalia of a modern nation state, and trust. Deserved or otherwise.
Amazingly, it seems to have worked tolerably well.
i.e. it's perfectly OK to be right wing.
i.e. it's perfectly OK to be right wing
Yes, because printing money has never caused any problems for anyone before 🙄
Just because someone shares some beliefs with UKIP or the Tories doesn't make them inherently evil,
Not evil, just prejudiced and lacking in any empathy.
UKIP believe in both leaving the EU and nationalising British Rail - I suppose that makes Corbyn a **** as well?
UKIP believe in both leaving the EU and nationalising British Rail - I suppose that makes Corbyn a **** as well?
Nope. It just further demonstrates your inability to comprehend all the facts associated with a discussion point. Sadly not surprising.
Just had a chat with my neighbour about the election. He said they were all clowns. I suggested it better to vote for a clown who at least wants to do good things...
Well, there actually _is_ a magic money tree.
True, but in the fairytale tradition, magic comes with a price 🙂
A significant portion of right wing policy has the ultimate aim of making the rich richer. Unless there's a magic money tree somewhere, that means they aim to do so at the expense of others, which is pretty morally reprehensible.
If that's not cause for quite correctly claiming some form of moral high ground, then I don't know what is.
Given the number of studies highlighting that those of a right wing disposition are on average educated to a lower level, I might also accept ignorance rather than a lack of empathy for defending Tories.
Chapeau zokes 😀 with your self righteous arrogance, you single handedly demonstrate why so many people don't want to engage with more left wing politics or those who peddle it.
Oooh it's like tennis as taxi returns the compliment using right wing self righteous generalisation and arrogance!!!
I'm impressed.
Oooh it's like tennis as taxi returns the compliment using right wing self righteous generalisation and arrogance!!!
A little bit perhaps. But the point I'm trying to make is when someone says.
"Torys mostly make money at others expense.
Because they supposedly do the left has moral high ground.
People vote Conservative out of ignorance."
The reaction of many people who aren't already committed to the left is, WTF where's this guy coming from and switch of, the message however good it might be gets lost.