[Closed] Is Gordon completly mad?

Like it or not most conflicts are only ended or reduced when you talk/work/make deals with the 'enemy.'

When you simplify it down to the one line stated above, it actually sounds like a fine idea: war is pricey and lives priceless so [i]if such a plan were to work[/i] then it's surely a good thing.

[center]Pour money into allied armed forces for not-guaranteed results.

Vs

Pour money into their armed forces to stop them using them.[/center]

Get rid of him, now.

Dont worry bout a ting.

In May, Dave will be our new Prime Minister. And all the issues concerning Afghanistan will be resolved.

I trust Dave. He looks so young in those posters. How could you not trust that face?

shortbread_fanylion - Member

Like it or not most conflicts are only ended or reduced when you talk/work/make deals with the 'enemy.'

Is the correct answer. You cannot win a war against an "enemy" that lives in that country. See Vietnam, Northern Ireland, Kenya and the mau mau etc etc etc.

You will only get a peace if you talk to the "enemy" I bet its not as simplistic as you make out. And war is expensive.

We (the West, well the USA) paid the Taliban the last time round and trained them and gave them the weapons. So no change in strategy - just we're the enemy now not the Russians.

And all the issues concerning Afghanistan will be resolved.

Ernie, you have a fine sense of irony 🙂

Gordon is so sane that he is going to let Blair election campaign as doing so will INCREASE votes for the New Labour. A delightful policy announced in the middle of Chilcot. Please note this is of course is for the benefit of Labour and not to polish Mr Blairs image.

Gordon, mad? No way, think of all those extra votes poised this week to fall upon him and TB. A deluge of them.

So Jenga - what is your solution?

continue as we are sustaining casualties, continuing to alienate the locals and pissing money away in an unwinnable war?

Bomb the place back to the stone age ( having bombed it back to the middle ages already?) the leave them to rot?

attempt to bring all the alienated locals to rejoin the society we have set up for them

World leaders pledged $140m (£87m) to win over low-level Taliban fighters.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has recently announced plans to encourage Taliban members to renounce violence and join in peace talks.

"We must reach out to all of our countrymen, especially our disenchanted brothers, who are not part of al-Qaeda, or other terrorist networks, who accept the Afghan constitution," he told delegates.

Seeing as we have helped royally eff the place up I would hope we can help sort it out

AN other bright idea?

Seeing as you don't like the plan put forward you must have one of your own?

The old saying is "you can never own an Afghan only rent him"

Its probably cost effective to bribe the economic Taliban in some way as long as they can be made to respect the Afghan constitution (bloody hell even Afghanistan has a written constitution unlike the UK) and it doesn't mean a return to banning the education of women etc.

You cannot win a war against an "enemy" that lives in that country. See Vietnam, Northern Ireland, Kenya and the mau mau etc etc etc.

World War II - Germany? Italy? Japan?
Korea?
Gulf War I and II?

Here's my bet. The taliban are really not that interested in money. I know Gordon probably sits in front of the TV every Saturday night with his lottery numbers in his lap but I think these chaps may well have a different agenda, you know, what with being occupied with various foreign military forces for the last 40 ****ing years.

I dunno, perhaps I'm being silly.

WW2 was not the same thing and it took years and millions of deaths. gulf war - We hardly won as its not finished yet as there is no peace. Instead we bombed themn back to the middle ages and ended up in the middle of a civil war. Millions of deaths there as well

Korea - ended up with a partitioned country so that went well as well.

The Korean war hasn't been won by either side. There is a ceasefire in place but no declaration of peace.

Germany, Italy, and Japan all got shed loads of cash spent on them to rebuild their economies. The 1st gulf war succeeded in driving the Iraqis from Kuwait but not in defeating Saddam Hussain and we (the west in general) are still embroiled in the 2nd gulf war precisely because there was insufficient planning that went into winning the peace by rebuilding the country.

Whatever we do - just make sure we don't give them any fire water

World War II - Germany? Italy? Japan?
Korea?
Gulf War I and II?

daffy, all your examples had a proper armed force.
the others are terrorist gorilla militia................who are pretty much impossible to beat, to be honest.

Dave will be our new Prime Minister. And all the issues concerning Afghanistan will be resolved.

Please please please tell me that was sarcasm?

So Jenga - what is your solution?

Firstly why are we there?

Gordon tells us that it's to stop the spread of terrorism to this country.

This week Gordon has hosted a conference (he's good at that) on preventing the spread of terrorism into this country from Yemen. How many more conferences on potential troublespots will he host? We will never ever win in Afghanistan, all we will get out of that country is more dead soldiers.

If Gordon seriously wants to stop the bombers and their sympathisers coimng into this country then he does just that. He stops them entering. Ports and airports. Don't lose many lives stood on a check in desk. It would re-inforce his desire to have control over every aspect of day to day life in this country, and provide employment for another multitude of state sponsored hangers on (guaranteed inflation proof pension for you sir!)

Of course he won't do that becuase he's frightened of upsetting his lords and masters in Brussels, which will queer his pitch for his lucrative employment when he leaves Downing Street. He's learned well from his "friend" Tone.

This week Gordon has hosted a conference (he's good at that) on preventing the spread of terrorism into this country from Yemen

I think you'll find he has focussed efforts on the threat from Afghanistan and ****stan. Apparently, Yemen isn't the threat....Erm.

I can't see the lot of Afghan women being improved when we do a deal with the pastun tribes. I thought that was one of the rasons we are there

I can't see the lot of Afghan women being improved when we do a deal with the pastun tribes. I thought that was one of the rasons we are there

Do you really believe that?

Here's a new law enacted by our buddy Karzai, bringer of liberty and democracy - saving Agfhanistan's women from the evil Taliban.

The law gives a husband the right to withdraw basic maintenance from his wife, including food, if she refuses to obey his sexual demands. It grants guardianship of children exclusively to their fathers and grandfathers. It requires women to get permission from their husbands to work. It also effectively allows a rapist to avoid prosecution by paying "blood money" to a girl who was injured when he raped her.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/08/13/afghanistan-law-curbing-women-s-rights-takes-effect

It wasn't Brown's idea.. when I heard it on the radio it was being talked about by experienced military leaders who'd been in Afghanistan. Brown's now mad for listening to his experts? Dear me.

Can I ask how port security will prevent the home grown terrorists like the ones who bombed London?

Todays's terrorist tomorrows corrupt blood sucker, sorry politician.

In many cases the best way forward is to find a way to talk. It would seem that whilst many conflicts have raged, behind the scenes talking has gone on at some level that eventually brings peace. Takes time though.

Very rarely is there a genuine case for war and even then there has often been a missed opportunity.

The law gives a husband the right to .....

Democracy - great, ain't it?

it's all bollocks, isn't it?

all ican do when i hear it on the radio is shake my head and shout abuse.

we'll leave with our tails between our legs.

Does he think a Taliban fighter is dreaming of a 3bedroom house and a nice VW Golf as their ideal life?

Quite probably, Hora.

Can I ask how port security will prevent the home grown terrorists like the ones who bombed London?

Are they like organic and free-range?

Of course he won't do that becuase he's frightened of upsetting his lords and masters in Brussels

Urghh.....those damn Brussels bureaucrats - always calling the shots 😐

We want to stop Afghan terrorists from entering Britain, but can't - thanks to those meddling Europeans.
I guess it's probably to do with some fancy so-called "human rights" legislation.

.

"Dave will be our new Prime Minister. And all the issues concerning Afghanistan will be resolved."

[b]Please please please tell me that was sarcasm?[/b]

Not at all. I'm sure that when Dave is our new Prime Minister, he won't stand for any of this foolishness. The first thing he'll probably do, is to tell the EU to go and sling their hook. Next, I suspect that he will put lots of people at the "check in desks" at all the ports and airports. Any terrorist trying to enter Britain will be told, "we won't have any of your nonsense here", and put on the first plane back to Afghanistan.

Just a few more weeks/months before sanity is restored 8)

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Hold on - we armed, trained and funded the Taliban and they now want to kill us.

Has anyone wondered how many years it'll be before the folks we're now arming, training and funding will turn against us?

In May, Dave will be our new Prime Minister.

no he won't,he will get more votes but no majority nor potentially be the largest party in Westminister

as for the original question, it happened in Ireland already

he will get more votes but no majority nor potentially be the largest party in Westminister

Well I'm glad that the detailed results of the next UK general election have already been thrashed out.
I hate the anticipation.

We've obviously learnt a few lessons from how the Afghans do this sort of stuff.

You can pay as much as you like to the Taliban, but it will never be enough to compensate for all the money they make out of refining heroin.

The people who need the money will not be the ones who receive it, the local Governers will do what they do know, keep it for themselves.The Afghan Government is corrupt, officials buy their jobs, ie the head of the airport in Kabul buys his job from the Government in 2006 he paid $250,000 not easy achievable on even a Colonels pay in Afghanistan, incidentely the same guy was in charge of the Poli Charki prison in Kabul when the Taliban run the show, nice bloke !!so much for a new regime.

The people in Afghanistan live for today, there has never been a tommorrow so they will take and take and take and never be happy so will
fight you or the ones who have so they have more.

Unfortunately IMO if you pay them you are paying twice as the heroin will still find its way into Europe and continue to be responsible for 90% of the crime we have. I see the future as only one of conflict, slight troop reduction in numbers but constant training teams in theatre and selective operations against key targets.

I have worked there as a soldier on several tours and as a member of SOCA and was in Khandahar with the USMC when they captured it, i took part in poppy irradication operations a year later, we paid them to not grow poppies, guess what the crops have increased since then as the Taliban do not control the whole industry and those we paid just moved the farming to another field, no easy solution but long term occupation and conflict for a long time yet.

ernie_lynch - Member

Get rid of him, now.

Dont worry bout a ting.

In May, Dave will be our new Prime Minister. And all the issues concerning Afghanistan will be resolved.

Well I'm glad that the detailed results of the next UK general election have already been thrashed out.
I hate the anticipation.

oh the irony....

anokdale - it has been proven time and again that you cannot reduce drug usage by supply side. Stop it from Afghanistan and it will come from somewhere else. You only stop drugs trade from supply side. The taliban did slow the drugs trade enormously when they ran the show.

The taliban did slow the drugs trade enormously when they ran the show.

Well that makes the Taliban alright fellas in my eyes. 🙄

The taliban did slow the drugs trade enormously when they ran the show.

They did more than "slow" the drug trade.

[i]"In 2000, the Taliban government banned poppy cultivation, which led to a 96 percent reduction in acreage devoted to the crop in last years growing season, according to UN and US drug agencies."[/i]

Does it make the Taliban "alright fellas" ? Well possibly not. But it definitely makes Tony Blair a calculating liar.

Because when he came out of Number 10 to inform the assembled TV reporters that the bombing of Afghanistan had began, he gave the fact that 90% of the heroin on British streets came from Afghanistan as one of the justifications for attacking the country. He knew damn well that practically all the poppy cultivation was occurring in the tiny enclave controlled by the Northern Alliance. But that didn't stop the deceiving little sh*tbag.

http://www.rawa.org/opium3.htm

Well we got peace in Northern Ireland (almost) just needed a bit of cash...