[Closed] Is everything worse than it used to be?

Entropy innit.

It's your actual second law of thermodynamics kinda thing.

It is something personal. But it's called middle age.
Old enough to know it's all a waste of time, too young to be too senile to care

I think there is a tendency in the press/media to focus on the "bad" things, which then gets shared around social media and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There's a colossal amount of good in the world which gets completely overlooked.

I'm in no way suggesting that Boris is right in telling us that it will all be alright if we were just a bit more optimistic, but if you start anything expecting it to be a shower of shit, it becomes a lot harder to get a positive outlook.

I think there is a tendency in the press/media to focus on the “bad” things, which then gets shared around social media and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There’s a colossal amount of good in the world which gets completely overlooked.

Definitely - but was this not always the case? (replace social media with friends, tabloids, cab drivers, men with sandwich boards, town criers, depending on how far back you want to go.)

@MCTD - if you expect it to be crap and it turns out okay then that's a positive. A bit like the party you don't really want to go to but you go anyway and an average night out ends up being quite good 'cos you thought it was going to be crap....

They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.

(Aristotle), 4th century BC

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint".

(Hesiod, 8th century BC)

Is everything worse than it used to be?

Normal really with the constant ups and downs ... 🤔

(Aristotle), 4th century BC
...
(Hesiod, 8th century BC)
...

Wise words mate 😉

No. See Steven Pinker on this. He's kind of like a thinking person's Malcolm Gladwell.

Food is cheap, varied and plentiful

or put another way, meat (especially) prices do not reflect the full environmental cost of production, we fly in asparagus from Peru and apples from China, and waste huge amounts of perfectly edible food.

My Grandfather always used to tell my Father that things are getting worse, My Dad always was telling me that things are getting worse, i find myself telling my Daughter that things are getting worse...

If you look at the bigger picture we’ve been lucky enough to live through a (relatively) long period of peace and stability.

I know that democracy is throwing up some real weird shit right now but it’s not like we’re all starving in the streets, dying of smallpox or being shipped out to fight in colonial wars

Yes and No.

Compared to when I was a kid (1970s) we have
- an amazing array of food from all over the world
- new cars which don't break down and rust every 100 miles
- more money that we know what to do with eg my schools clothes used to have to last years and all my jumpers had holes in them etc
- paramedics who turn up with amazing life saving kit like drips, defibrillators etc (in the 1970s you got a stretcher, a blanket and a triangular bandage).
- double glazing / insulation as standard on all houses
- A phone line in every house (not shared lines) and internet

On the other hand we seem to have cocked up
- the environment
- financial equality

and generally decided that we can't be arsed to properly fund courts, schools, prisons, hospitals etc.

Just about everything is better now than it was at any point in the last hundred years. Not to be complacent, there are lot of people struggling, and a lot of people looking to turn clocks back in many ways, but generally… things are going in the right direction. Young people seem to be keen to keep progress going, which is always encouraging.

It’s the blue dot effect.

Worst thread ever.
I remember when this place used to be... (drifts off in carefully-edited nostalgia)

On the other hand we seem to have cocked up
– the environment
– financial equality

The first certainly although the process started in the past that many seem to feel was better.

In many places and across the world in general monetary inequalities are reducing. From reports I've seen it looks like the UK is bucking that trend though.

Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

Apart from that, things have got better at the expense of the environment.

Look at some of the recent things in the news....grouse shooting, all female emergency cabinets, banning use of hands free phones in cars(though how they'd ever police it is uncertain)...do they seem like the kind of headline news stories of a country where everything is turning to crap? No chance. It's proper first world, the point of the tip of Maslow's Triangle stuff.

Nah. The world has its problems, but in the last 100 years things have got a hell of a lot better for billions of people. We've moved from a situation where over 80% of the global population 100 years ago were living in poverty...now 50% of the worlds population are middle class...while the population has grown from about 3bn to over 6bn. That is an unbelievable achievement. And it has been achieved by giving people freedom and control of their own lives...empowering them to make their own lives better proving that individuals know what is best for them better than any government. that has to be the model we continue with and finesse and improve over time.

Though there is still a large gap between the richest and poorest in developed countries...there are less people in those two buckets with many more people in the middle. Things are becoming more equal too and there is more equality in the world than ever before.

People have more freedom. Are generally healthier. With increasing life expectancy.

Sure there are challenges, but they're largely as a result of our success, like overconsumption instead of world wars, disease and starvation, we're better equipped to face them than ever before so the chances of success are better than any other time in our history.

nah, whichever way you cut it things are better than they were and getting better. the only risk to the continuation of the progression is ourselves.

The first certainly although the process started in the past that many seem to feel was better.

But the huge disposable income we now have just creates vast quantities of tat that ends up in landfill / bobbing around the Pacific. Go back 30-40 years and we bought less rubbish and most of it wasn't made of plastic. Plastic has really taken over in the last 30 years, everything is made from it now.

On the other hand we seem to have cocked up
– the environment
– financial equality

The environment was overall in a much worse state 40 years ago, *except* for climate change. Even then there is some suggestion that it was only the dimming of the sun from all the soot we produced that was keeping a lid on temperatures.

We've cleaned up local environments beyond measure. There's salmon in the river Taff, which used to be a sluice for factory waste. Indeed, if you go back even further to when everything must've been even more marvellous, the environment in London was so bad that when people fell into the river they often died of asphyxiation from the fumes rather than drowning.

I am white and straight, but I imagine it's better in general to be coloured or gay now than it was 40 years ago. Things are obviously having a bit of a slump now but I doubt stuff like this would have happened in the 60s.

things are worse,

environment - is absolutely trashed, and is only going to get worse.

Politically - the rise of the right; divisive and hate fueled politics is doing the peace and prosperity we have enjoyed to now no good at all.

Education - worst in living memory
Police - as above
Healthcare - as above
infrastructure - terrible condition

Stability and optimism - probably at an all time low, primarily because of the above.

for comments about having great smart phones and disposable incomes that does make an improved society.

Pretty soon the influx of starving migrants from places decimated by climate change will drastically alter anyones idea of "things are better now".

Without pausing for thought, having literally just read the OP before typing a reply, my initial hunch is that we are at best in a plateau state in terms of the quality of life for UK citizens... If not declining.

If you think back to the 1970s, around the time a lot of us here were kids, the rate of positive change to our lives to ~2000 was amazing. Things like the internet, other electronic technology breakthroughs, home ownership and disposable income etc.

Some things have progressed on since ~2000, like faster internet and carbon framed bikes, but other things are now worse for us as a nation and internationally...
Pollution in the air from all those extra cars
Pollution in the seas from all that plastic
People now have a life expectancy lower than the previous generation due to less exercise and less healthy diets
Less of us owning homes and more of us paying ever increasing rents to have a roof over our head
Many people trapped in renting because they can't raise a big enough mortgage deposit
House prices spiralling out of control
Kids can't play safely on the street outside due to parked cars and other cars passing through
Smaller pockets of greenery to break up the urban jungle
A massive UK population increase, especially on the south coast
Throw-away society
etc.

I think we were overall in a much better place in the early 2000s.

The environment was overall in a much worse state 40 years ago

How many millions of tonnes of plastic were in the oceans 40 years ago?

We didn't have wide spread usage of pesticides and monoculture mass agriculture devoid of any wildlife which now dominates industrial agriculture.

Simply put time and experience... The world is a better place.. Especially in medicine my parents grew up with genetic disorders that haven't been treatable.. Yet I have a very manageable set of disorders thanks to early treatment... More money, food, shelter... Things are better easy to forget but they are.. And all this in about 20-40 years.. Surprising really.

Two things here.

1) Things were better when we were younger, because we were younger (something the brexiters could do to realise). Of course it was better in the 1970s when all you had to worry about was getting a clip round the ear because you were late getting home for tea, rather than having to hold down a job you hate in order to keep a roof over your head.

2) We are so much better at reporting bad things these days. I have no doubts that there were just as many nonces, rapists and general shitehawks around in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc as there are today, it's just that the tabloids like to get into a frot about it rather than everyone pretending that creepy uncle Gary just hung around playgrounds for the fresh air. Plus we've got on-demand social media for the occasional witch-hunt or two.

OMG, just ten posts ago I thought things were bad, little did I know... those were the golden days, see what's become of us now, how things have degraded to such an extent I cannot even

I’d rather be alive now, born in the late 70’s, than at any other point in history. That in itself tells me that things are better than they were. Not likely to die from war, famine or plague. Livin’ the life over here.

Things always get much worse under the Tories.There only real care is for the rich and powerful.The rest of us are just disposable.

Depends entirely on what one means by 'everything'.

The environment was overall in a much worse state 40 years ago

How many millions of tonnes of plastic were in the oceans 40 years ago?

true, but on the other hand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London

up to 12,000 dead and 100,000 sick from one week of air pollution in one city in the UK. Can hardly imagine it

funkmasterp - would you like to have been born 15 years ago, or back in the 70s?

I understand the general "quality of life now vs 100 years ago" arguments - that's definitely a progressive move. But how about over the last 5 or 10 years?

Its like we are in the late summer, autum almost here and winter on its way. Its been pretty damm good for quite a few decades. But I reckon polution / environmental impacts are just round the corner. These will make recent problems seem non existant.

"The UK’s 10 hottest years on record have all occurred since 2002, the Met Office has said. Its statistics stretching back to 1884 reveal a worrying trend, as the planet as a whole deals with the climate crisis."

Things started going downhill when they stopped having those cheerful happy stories at the end of the news.

funkmasterp – would you like to have been born 15 years ago, or back in the 70s?

Back in the 70’s. No way would I want to be 15 again. Feel like I appreciate things like tech advances more too, knowing how things were in the 80’s compared to now. Just feel like it’s been a good period to live through to be honest.

Bikes are way better than they used to be. There’s more good stuff to watch on telly. It’s easier to find a passable espresso (though just as hard to find a great one). It’s easy to access P̶o̶r̶n̶ literature and music, in a way that would have seemed unimaginable just a few years ago. Women and gays have more rights now. Overt racism is much rarer.

On the other hand we had few homeless when I was a kid, and religious intolerance was something that happened elsewhere (apart from Northern Ireland). Our politicians seem to be idiots. Kids don’t play outside as much.

I’d say most things were better, but some things have got worse.

*i partially disagree with the person above who said education is worse - everyone thinks education was better in their day. We educate more kids to a decent standard than ever before. However, once they get to GCSE level and above all effort is in exam-passing rather than learning.

Pretty soon the influx of starving migrants from places decimated by climate change will drastically alter anyones idea of “things are better now”.

This will be the point when we finally get to realise if we are truly civilised. It is going to rain on everyone's parade.

We educate more kids to a decent standard than ever before. However, once they get to GCSE level and above all effort is in exam-passing rather than learning.

And the exams seem eve...

aaah **** it. Doesn't even matter compared with what is coming. Cherish your time with your children.

Things are more the way they are now than they’ve ever been.

For me:

some stuff is better - some is worse.

Some good stuff: Birds of prey while still under attack are far more plentiful than they were. Land is being managed much better than it was in Scotland.

The disabled get a far more positive portrayal in the media than they used to

Outdoor kit is so much better than it was

God no... If you get the chance have a read of 'Factfulness' by Hans Rosling, I think he's done some TED talks too.
Puts a lot of the 'worlds gone to crap' & 'it was better in my day' nonsense to bed.

On top of that, I used to ride a `proflex 995...!

How many millions of tonnes of plastic were in the oceans 40 years ago?

No-one knew. Look at what's been banned since the 60s. The UK burned no coal for two whole weeks this summer. That hasn't happened since Victorian times. Don't you kids remember the ozone layer hole/CFCs and acid rain in the 80s (both improved)? Also the very real threat of nuclear war?

Sure, we have problems, but things were definitely worse. People are starting to care about the environment now, which is a strong positive.

Pretty soon the influx of starving migrants from places decimated by climate change will drastically alter anyones idea of “things are better now”.

This will be the point when we finally get to realise if we are truly civilised. It is going to rain on everyone’s parade.

People have been predicting this sort of thing for decades now (the cause du jour of climate change being a more recent addition). Funny how it hasn't happened, isn't it? (or any of the other apocalyptic scenarios mooted over the last few thousand years).

I think there's a real need in certain sections of society to believe that everything is coming to an end. Eschatology certainly dates back to pre-Christian times, and seems as strong now, albeit in a more secular variety.

Getting back to the original point - yes, things are generally better now than they were in the past, at least in the developed world.

JP

10-15 years ago or so, loads of people were saying everything was broken because of the Iraq war and George Bush etc. and then we had the crash and a decade of austerity. But all the same, those days were ok from day to day for most of us, now we have worries about the environment and extremism, but everyday life is still better than ever overall.

We have always had a 'life's not what it used to be' syndrome, but currently the press seem to be looking for the negative and are adding to the problem on all sides by pushing narrow ideological arguments whilst calling the other side extremists....

The state of the media is one of the things that's worse than it used to be.

We used to die of infectious diseases. Then we died of cardiovascular disease, then we died of cancer, next well die of dementia. So yes things have got better. Unless you fancy a dose of antibiotic resistant yersinia pestis. When that comes look for the other three horsemen.

interesting topic and views

There have been mentions of how the UK environment is cleaner in our post industrial era and this is true. This is only because the industry has moved to somewhere else and is polluting other rivers and cities. Though probably not in the same way as we polluted ours.

Today it probably is better in many ways than it was. Unfortunately, I think our prospects for a better future are worse than they were.

I also wanted to say that I feel that people not dying of infections diseases and having more money to spend doesn’t necessarily make the world better. It certainly makes life more fun and comfortable. The flip side is that it puts greater demands on finite resources which means the fun and comfort will end sooner. Or maybe it doesn’t. We’ll find out.

Facebook and 24 rolling news can't be helping the perception that things are getting worse. Every little annoyance or local incident is shared giving the perception that it's all going to shit. FB and the national news also share shocking stories from around the world that have no international relevance, e.g. "Two babies killed by [insert a stigmatised group] in revenge attack". Yes, but in South Sudan.

Our local town FB news pages are a daily barrage of
"WARNING DOG NAPPERS three guys in a van looked at my dog I think they wanted to take Fluffy. Stay safe out there people" or
"Some youths stole my gnome and swore"
"Dead cat on high street. Driver drover off [angry face]"

That sort of stuff would only have been via word of mouth or maybe the odd local paper story. Now it's a constant list. Our town news page (population 10k) has at least 3 wining "news" posts a day that would give the impression of voyaging towards hell in handcart.

“The UK’s 10 hottest years on record have all occurred since 2002, the Met Office has said. Its statistics stretching back to 1884 reveal a worrying trend, as the planet as a whole deals with the climate crisis.”

I do wonder about the Met Office sometimes... this planet has been doing weather for getting on for billions of years and our historical observational data is being taken from the last 140. Even core drilling hasn’t really enabled us to look at trends in the longer time frames. Geologically speaking, the last ice age was yesterday.

I know that will get the sciency lot frothing a bit but it was only 60years ago that smog and pea soup fogs were all the rage in the UK conurbations.

For sure, we have no or little idea as to how much our presence and activities affects climate on the grander scale, apart from possibly air travel... but then again, 40 years ago air travel was not as accessible as it is now, for better or worse.

I'd say the best time for many people was the 1980s, but a lot of the wealth created was phantom and the optimism didn't last.
Things are still getting better but it isn't very obvious, but some of the healthcare technology coming along has the potential to alleviate a lot of regular human suffering. There are some major things which need to change, specifically about how much we consume, our culture is too materialistic.
The main thing we lack is hope.

my life's better.

sample size of 1 though, and mostly because I get the whole garage to myself.

I think we reached the best point in the early 2000s. Technology was useful but not intrusive (no social media), racism was more under control, housing was sort of under control. In the last 10 years it feels like it is going backwards from a society point of view with more division, racism coming back, poor government, more selfish attitudes.
Probably no coincidence that when tories are in government things tend to be worse.

Compared to when?

Compared to almost any previous point in history people aren't dying of childbirth, preventable disease or war. We are generally healthier, wealthier and better educated than nearly everyone ever has been, or would have been the sole preserve of Kings and Emperors only a few hundred years ago.

We didn’t have wide spread usage of pesticides and monoculture mass agriculture

Erm, yes, yes we did.

DDT, amongst other Stockholm Convention listed compounds.

No, just miserable ****ers think it was and want to drag you down into their gloomy world.

For sure, we have no or little idea as to how much our presence and activities affects climate on the grander scale, apart from possibly air travel

You know your whole post comes across as "science, all of it, that's wrong - but I know what's happening".

Just saying.

And what's with singling out air travel?

Makes you think.

I do wonder about the Met Office sometimes

You honestly think that a whole agency full of scientists and researchers hasn't thought of this stuff - but you have? You think you're THAT much cleverer than basically everyone else?

The reason you wonder is that you haven't really gone into the science in depth and understood the research that's been done and how they arrive at their conclusions.

Well, yes and no.

Bad stuff is happening due to our over consumption, but the things we consume are generally getting better. Not that long ago 30mpg was considered pretty decent from a family car, Boxxers had 150mm of travel, my 80mm Judy's lasted 6 months and had a "long travel" sticker on, and disc brakes on MTBs were considered unnecessary weight by most.

But then you didn't have to spend as long picking the right tyre. It was a fire XC pro whatever and whenever you were riding.

I think we reached the best point in the early 2000s. Technology was useful but not intrusive (no social media),

Apart from forums, bulletin boards, Facebook and twitter.

Altho I did put a positive post in earlier I must say that overall I am very pessimistic for the future. We are already seeing effects from climate change. Billions of people worldwide do not have enough food or access to clean water - and these things will only get worse. another 30 or so years and large parts of the world will become unihabitable

We are like the proverbial frog slowly being boiled in the pan.

Climate change and the refugee crisis is happeing now in the several places - Sub Sahara / Alaska, Greenland, Siberia / Central America etc already. Pop down to Italy / Greece and try to suggest the refugee crisis is not happeing.

We are shielded by both denial and the Channel, but sooner or later that wont be enough.

We are shielded by both denial and the Channel, but sooner or later that wont be enough.

We'll need Danube as well?

coat, got

I think you are all forgetting about Great Britain. You know, the greatness Boris and Nige want to wish us back to.
Pissed up blokes in brown overcoats making truely horrible cars like the TR7 , Austin 1100, Princess , etc
The 3 day week
The miners strike
The power cuts of the 70's
15% mtg interest and loosing our shirts in the EMU debacle
The cod wars , we have caught all our fish and now we want yours.- not so fast sonny
The IRA bombing alot of stuff .- One massive improvemement
Drunk drivers everywhere .- Better, buut replaced with mobile phones
Raw sewage discharge out to sea, better but room for improvemnt
Adult men condemned to 40 years hard labour in a steel mill, mine, coalery , who were totaly broken at the end of every shift , week, month etc but always went back then either retired through ill health , had an industrial accident or got out only to live another 2 to die of a work related illness
Asbestosis
Thalidomide babies / Aids / HIV / Hep C
Lunchtime drinking , Unions , Labour , domestic violence.
Selling all the council houses and replacing them with nothing
Football hooliganism , was rife , still about but massively reduced

Most of the above has gone , been reduced
We keep people alive , mass deaths through war and infectous disease etc gone ,

So the good stuff we have now .some questionable
Affluent society
Consumerism
Multiple foreign holidays ( screws the environment )
NHS is well equipped but needs staffing differently, same as doctors imo
Internet , wifi , smart phones , smart tele's , smart cars , E-cars , cheap flights , recycling ( moot ) renewable energy ,

Billy Joel must be bricking it right now ^^^

Relevant article to the thread:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/14/britain-social-infrastructure-money-national-grid

So yes, much is improved, but perhaps if we had better social infrastructure we'd feel better? Maybe that's what we are missing?