...well hellloooo doggy-heaven
Yes. It's just [i]great[/i] that someone's hard earned cash is up the spout isn't it? Get real.
their worker's sons won't see a job at Foxconn as the best alternative in a bad situation
From [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19699156 ]a BBC Article about Foxconn[/url]:
Foxconn is famous for his industrial revolution approach to manufacturing; the workers eat, sleep and live in huge dormitories adjacent to the factories where they work round-the-clock shifts. The company even provides doctors.The plant in Shenzhen, which includes bakeries, banks and acupuncture clinics, for example, [b]employs over 400,000 people[/b].
..
[Foxconn] responded to the worldwide media attention by raising wages, shortened working hours and installed counsellors on site. It also installed suicide nets to factory living-quarters at its Shenzhen factory.And Apple sent independent inspectors from the US Fair Labor Association to audit their facilities, who found "significant issues" among working practices there.
Apple said it "fully accepted" the report's conclusions.
Despite being a lightning rod for criticism, [b]Foxconn is regarded as one of China's better employers by many Chinese labour rights groups[/b], paying workers on time and for all the overtime.
So... we should shut them down? Putting 400,000 people out of work (at just one plant!), and forcing them to seek employment at less reputable factories which haven't had the benefit of worldwide scrutiny.
Let me be clear: I don't approve of "the systematic exploitation of cheap labour" either, but people in developing economies do need jobs.
I think raising worldwide public awareness of conditions and putting pressure on companies we buy from to ensure their suppliers treat workers well and pay them properly is a much better way forward than just boycotting everything made in China or any other developing nation.
i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc
Let me be clear: I don't approve of "the systematic exploitation of cheap labour" either, but people in developing economies do need jobs.
I agree, I'm simply disheartened to see another economy becoming more and more westernised. This is purely emotional, mind you.
[b]I think raising worldwide public awareness of conditions and putting pressure on companies we buy from to ensure their suppliers treat workers well and pay them properly[/b] is a much better way forward than just boycotting everything made in China or any other developing nation.
This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with my posts, as well as my avoidance of products that produce [i]massive[/i] margins which do not trickle down to the workers. I've had to draw a line somewhere. I'm not advocating boycotting everything made in China, I'm suggesting that the way things are are not the only way they can be, and ultimately we are all responsible for this consumerist cluster-love-in. This was mainly in response to your comments along the lines of 'lots of other companies do it' and 'there isn't much I can do about it', as well as the general apathy you displayed.
my avoidance of products that produce massive margins which do not trickle down to the workers
But as that article states, it is one of the better employers and wages have been increased, so arguably it is the very kind you should be supporting as it IS trickling down some of those margins.
his was mainly in response to your comments along the lines of 'lots of other companies do it'
Fair enough, maybe I should have worded that better.
It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple (who actually responded to pressure by instigating the FLA independent inspection and trying to improve conditions) but make no mention of Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba or Vizio [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers ]who also use Foxconn[/url] and don't appear to have done anything.
as well as the general apathy you displayed.
There's a subtle difference between apathy and resignation.
i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc
Isn't this what drives employment?
It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple...
but make no mention of Acer, Amazon, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, Nokia, Sony, Toshiba or Vizio
I was just raising awareness.. where better to enquire about the issue in the image than a thread full of gadget obsessed fanbois..? as you said, by far and away the best policy..
thankfully you've filled the gaps very concisely Graham, and for that you deserve a big fat kiss..
(please make an effort to remember not to shoot the messenger in your frantic scramble for the moral high ground in future though.. hey kiddo..? 😉 )
But as that article states, it is one of the better employers and wages have been increased, so arguably it is the very kind you should be supporting as it IS trickling down some of those margins.
Long may these benefits increase, but the margins are still too large on many items of desirable consumer electronics for my conscience.
It just seems a bit odd that people post images like that deriding Apple
I view these images as a natural response to cult following that Apple products enjoy. There [i]are[/i] people that are complete 'Apple fanbois'. There is a stereotype that Apple users are smug about their phone and irrationally view it as the best-phone-ever, making them a preferential target compared to someone who shuts up about their phone. Coupled with the aforementioned media oversaturation of all things Apple, Apple products in general get an awful lot more exposure than other brands. Likewise, the negative impacts of Apple's choice of manufacturing [i]also[/i] gets greater attention. I feel Apple's praise and derision are linearly related. No one goes on about how bad Toshibas manufacturing policies are because no one goes on about how good their products are.
There's a subtle difference between apathy and resignation.
Indeed, my apologies
i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etcIsn't this what drives employment?
Maybe, but it also drives pollution and the consumption of resources.
Foxconn's suicide rate is estimated to be 4.7 per 100,000 per year
That is lower than all 50 US states, significnatly lower than China as a whole and the UK.
It is less than half that of working in the NHS.
So if you don't want to feel guilty for buying an iPhone (or any of the other tech they make) you don't have to. But if you visit the doctors your really should go with a guilty concience.
@scuzz - it's economically beneficial for a Chinese person to work in a factory than it is for them to be a subsistence farmer. It's just the same revolution every developed country has been through. Did you see the program on the BBC last night about Marxism ? They pointed out that the Victorian mining employers who paid their workers more invariably went out of businesses vs their competiton. That doesn't really help the worker does it ? If the Chinese government doesn't chose to set national standards for pay and employee welfare a foreign company cannot do it alone.
it's economically beneficial for a Chinese person to work in a factory than it is for them to be a subsistence farmer.
Of course, I'm simply arguing for the more quixotic life where benefits aren't measured economically, that's all. As I said, it's my emotional reaction. There are many farmers who have been forced off of their land and have previously had no desire to chase a more economically viable way of life.
Apple have consistently shown that they can sell their product at a premium price compared to the competition; they have far more to offer a consumer than mining companies ever did, where I would imagine price pays far more of a factor - No one ever considered the mine from which the coal in their pocket originated as a lifestyle choice.
they have far more to offer a consumer than mining companies ever did
Eh?
One is a luxury item, one is a necessity. Not sure how you can compare?
i think re the foxxconn stuff the relentless pursuit of the newest gizmo is the problem, when theres nothing wrong with your previous phone/pc/tablet etc
While that may well be true, what is also true is that very many Apple products get passed along to other family members, or sold on to people who can't afford the latest version, and as such have a useful life many times longer than most such products. The phones go to spouses/children/relatives, as do computers and pads. I still have, and use, an eight year old PowerBook, at work we have three old desktop Macs, two in use, which date back to 2001, the other to 1999. In the last few months, I have personally seen nearly twenty gutted PC's go for scrap. This is no different to bikes, really, the buying of the latest whizzy new 'steed', and the re-cycling, (ha!) of the older, less whizzy bike to those less impressionable/fortunate. That's been going on on here since I first started using STW back in 2002/3.
Let's all live in mud huts and wear hair shirts, wailing and bemoaning consumerism, why don't we! 🙄
Ive just had a play on the Note II. Jesus the video definition is 😮
Zoom in to a playing vid and its ultra-sharp. Cant be good for battery life but boy for once I will pay money upfront for a phone (£69) and wait until the 17th. **** it feels quality as well.
A sort of Samsung S3 Turbo.
hora, I'm probably getting the Note II as well when I can find a grey one. What's happening on the 17'th?
Let's all live in mud huts and wear hair shirts, wailing and bemoaning consumerism, why don't we!
oooh, yes pleease..!
Will there be sexy hippy chicks, and and, getting mullered and repetitive beats..?
If so I'm in like Flynn 😀
17th is when 3 get theirs. Apart from their callcentres that sound like something off of Phonejacker its the best speeds/connection/tarrif for me
Let's all live in mud huts and wear hair shirts, wailing and bemoaning consumerism, why don't we!
will each mud hut come with its own straw man?
One thing regarding the Note2 versus the S3 - if you value the stylus, etc then will be tied to waiting for Samsung to provide updates to the Note OS - whereas with the S3 you can also update yourself if need be - I am thinking of longer term ownership.
I was thinking about a Note2 - the extra screen size is certainly useful and makes 'using' sites more viable, but I might just settle for an S3.
The S3 has the same screen resolution as the Note2, but the pixel density is greater as the screen is smaller. The Note2 has more memory and the processor is 1.6Ghz instead of 1.4Ghz, making it snappier.
TurnerGuy - I know however side by side the Note2 just seems to have greater clarity. Mad.
Never had a problem getting updates for the first gen Note, usually from SamMobile, so didn't feel the need to venture into the world of custom roms. Good review of the Note 2 from an Apple fan here (also mentions the iPhone 5 so almost back on topic)
Odd that he goes on about how it is [i]"already ahead of the iphone"[/i], then the first thing he does is benchmark it and geek out over the CPU speed and [i]"insane performance"[/i], but for some reason he doesn't mention that [url= http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/3206/benchmarks-samsung-galaxy-note-ii-vs-apple-iphone-5 ]the iPhone 5 absolutely hoses the Note 2 in side-by-side benchmarks[/url].
Not that it matters, Apple have never been about CPU specs and purposely don't publish them, but it does make me question the reliability of his review a bit.
TurnerGuy - I know however side by side the Note2 just seems to have greater clarity. Mad.
"the Samsung Galaxy Note II uses a completely new Super AMOLED matrix with three subpixels per pixel. It’s an unusual matrix for sure, but it might be the sign of things to come for future Galaxy flagships.
[url= http://android-emotions.com/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-preview/ ]from here[/url]
also the Note2 seems to be doing better in 'drop-tests' than the smaller S3, which is interesting.
[url= http://www.ibtimes.com/samsung-galaxy-note-2-vs-galaxy-s3-which-more-durable-worlds-first-drop-test-upcoming-phablet-video ]drop-tests[/url]
I keep looking for a decent 4:3 android tablet I can put an anti-glare cover on for reading technical PDFs, as the graphics get a bit messed up on an e-reader plus the lack of color doesn't help. but that might be a better option for me. Archos have one out although the spec is low.
The review seemed quite reliable to me. Clearly someone that appreciates a better product when he sees one 😉
Clearly someone that appreciates a better product when he sees one 😉
It's a nice bit of kit and no mistake.
I'd probably consider one if I wasn't already walled-up inside the Apple garden (and I knew someone handy with a needle and thread to make all my pockets much bigger 😉 )
I'm not fashionable enough to have pockets that small so have no problem with the Note's size. It's interesting how quickly you adjust to carrying a larger device around. Whenever I use what most people consider a normal size phone, it feels tiny to me. You just need to get used to holding something bigger than 4" in your hand 🙂
Depends, your own or other mens? 😯
I'm not fashionable enough to have pockets that small
Neither am I. But I take my iPhone out my jeans pocket when I sit down. Not (as some wags say) to "show it off", but purely because I don't like having it sticking into my leg and getting all sweaty. So I think something bigger than that would irritate far more.
I'm just not used to having more than 4" in my trousers.
It wouldn't fit in my business suit pocket either, which only just fits an iPhone.
the iPhone 5 absolutely hoses the Note 2 in side-by-side benchmarks.
don't think the margins shown on those graphs qualify as 'absolutely hoses', or even 'hoses'.
However imho Apple will always have an edge based on the fact that they have big usability labs and they actually take notice of them...
Apple Maps uses 20% of the data download required by Google
[url= http://www.techradar.com/news/software/applications/apple-maps-uses-80-less-data-than-google-maps-1101501 ]Tech Radar[/url]
don't think the margins shown on those graphs qualify as 'absolutely hoses', or even 'hoses'.
Okay well put it this way, you said the 1.6GHz Note2 was noticeably snappier than the 1.4Ghz S3?
Looking at those figures the iPhone 5 has at least the same margin over the Note2 as it has over the S3.
So maybe "hoses" is too strong, but it is "noticeably snappier" on the straight CPU thrashing and really quite a lot faster on the 3D stuff (more than twice the framerate on one of them).
Not that it matters. I agree with Apple's view that benchmarks are a crap way to grade a phone. Getting into number wars doesn't help.
I wouldn't have mentioned them at all, but I think it puts that YouTube reviewers comments about the Note2 being [i]"already ahead of the iphone"[/i] with [i]"insane performance"[/i] into some context.
Apple Maps uses 20% of the data download required by Google
Possibly because Apple Maps have 20% of the detail that Google has 😀
Actually it seems he is comparing vector to bitmapped, but I thought Android already had vector-based Google Maps?
Actually it seems he is comparing vector to bitmapped, but I thought Android already had vector-based Google Maps?
And some people think computer scientist apple fan boys are dull and geeky...you show them soldier 😉
re the benchmarks- plus Samsungs camera doesn't come with the [i]purple fringing[/i] that comes as standard on a Iphone5 😆
iP5 Camera.
Click on this and have a look at the full size pic....
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/8049846155_7055969b4c_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/8049846155/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr
It's a pic of a crap thing, but I think you'll agree its a bloody good quality one!
And some people think computer scientist apple fan boys are dull and geeky...you show them soldier
😛 For the benefit of the Arts and Humanities students:
vector: a line is described by two points (4 numbers, so maybe 8 bytes)
bitmap: you just get a picture of a line (so maybe 1000 bytes)
Samsungs camera doesn't come with the purple fringing that comes as standard on a Iphone5
Odd thing to get worked up about that - [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing ]purple fringing[/url] is pretty common on most cameras, even SLRS. Combination of chromatic aberration and lens flare.
I'm sure Samsung have reinvented optics though.
Sorry I don't know about benchmarking but walking towards, picking up and the first 5mins- first impressions count for me. The iphone5- I thought it was a dummy phone when I walked towards it. The NoteII just blew me away.
Based on hora's instincts, I've made my decision, it'll be the 5 all the way. I can live without the flash, because iOS7 will have it. 🙂
I haven't read the last few pages but does the fact that T mobile / EE are now selling the Samsung 3 LTE (4g capable) change anyone's mind? There's also a an HTC One X LTE on thier website...
Take a look.
I thought it was a dummy phone when I walked towards it
Wow, so light you thought it was hollow? Impressed!
😉
In a sort of related note, this post from Coding Horror might be of interest to smartphone/tablet fans [url= http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/10/the-pc-is-over.html ]The PC is Over[/url], his main point being that PCs are practically stationary in development terms but smartphones (on all sides) are improving exponentially.
[img] http://www.codinghorror.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b017ee3e42e5e970d-800wi [/img]
From your original link Graham, don't the Samsung products score higher on the geekbench tests?
And none of those tests are benchmarking the important functions: Speed of grot access and how close to booze I am at any given time.
^ Why do you think Im raving about the zoom/clarity soo much?
