Apologies if this has been done, yesterday - in which case Mods please close this!
How is the representation of women doing in the sport/recreation/utility cycling? The trade shows and the industry is dominated by men, the forums appear to be dominated by men and even the esteemed STW magazine and website is dominated by men.
Is our pastime getting better with the inclusion of all sections of our society or is it regressing into a tightly knit group of (mostly wealthy) white men?
A lot of issues there perhaps, but I, for one, miss the input from Hannah and Amanda.
In general a lack of safe infrastructure and lack of policing of driving means that cycling tends to be dominated by the least risk averse, ie. young men.
Cycling UK has been good on this
https://bsky.app/profile/cyclinguk.bsky.social/post/3mgjy5pkxo32j
How is the representation of women doing in the sport/recreation/utility cycling? The trade shows and the industry is dominated by men, the forums appear to be dominated by men and even the esteemed STW magazine and website is dominated by men.
In "new media" it's doing very well. Many of the YouTube/Facebook contributors I follow are female. I generally prefer their approach/style. I don't attend trade shows or have anything much to do with "the industry" these days so I'm not best placed to comment. I don't think you can have a legitimate pop at STW unless you have the idea that they've neglected to take on a good female contributor. That might be true of all the traditional media too. I guess it's just a bit of a cycle (see what I did there?)
Looking at it the other way, STW perhaps didn’t do enough to hang on to two good female contributors? I realise that people move on but perhaps if conditions and renumeration are good then they will stay?
The women's section of my local CycleUK group (Cycle Ayrshire) is well subscribed. There were 10 of us out on the ladies only ride on Saturday. The Max is 15, there is often a waiting list.
I will say the demographic is slightly older, this also seems to be the case for the men's section too. British Cycling & the other local chain gangs appear to be younger(ish) and more male when I've seen them out.
I prefer the safety in numbers aspect of it. I will go out myself to spin the legs, I definitely don't enjoy it as much. The leaders put a lot of effort into planning, recceing the routes, so I don't have to! The bonus of retirement I guess
It's obviously not a race group, the aim of the game is to get us all there in one piece, travel some quieter roads, pack in a cafe pitstop, check out the views (code for catching your breath again). These ladies are not feart of hills (much to my manual bike horror :))
Not many of the girls in my friends group cycle regularly, a few dabbled, but work, kids, dogs, life just gets in the way.
Any time any new cycle paths get mentioned on local social media, the trolls, the online abuse is beyond belief. I don't think there is a quick answer to changing that attitude.
Hang on, didn't we used to have a Women's forum? It seems to have vanished or is that some temporary glitch with the new forum software?
-- Edit --
Just had a quick look at the British Cycling website and I'm not seeing any mention of International Women's Day or indeed anything specifically 'female' (although there are pages for young people & disability/para-cycling in the 'Get Involved' menu).
[Edit again!]
I'm doing them a disservice, - https://www.letsride.co.uk/breeze
Looking at it the other way, STW perhaps didn’t do enough to hang on to two good female contributors? I realise that people move on but perhaps if conditions and renumeration are good then they will stay?
Why does their gender matter? A good contributor is a good contributor irrespective of gender. I would expect STW to make as much effort to retain any good contributors irrespective of their gender.
Gender matters, not only to bring a different perspective but also, if a section of society doesn’t see themselves represented then it can lead them to feel excluded and therefore not try an activity.
Why does their gender matter? A good contributor is a good contributor irrespective of gender.
I'd say it's about representation and the ability to shape provision and attract/retain female members. We could do with some female specific stories.
We could do with some female specific stories.
Would I read those? Maybe. Would I read good stories and articles by female contributors - more likely. I can see there is some benefit in appealing directly to female readers but I also think there's a greater benefit showing that those same folk can make content that appeals to everyone.
Biggest surprise of the day to me was WBD announcing that Elite Women will be the last race of the day at Leogang. Unfortunately I won’t be watching as they priced me out of the market 🙁
Why does their gender matter? A good contributor is a good contributor irrespective of gender.
I'd say it's about representation and the ability to shape provision and attract/retain female members. We could do with some female specific stories.
Female members of what? The cycling community, whatever that actually is. Most cycling groups I know of a basically groups of friends who ride together. What is a female specific story anyway?
What is a female specific story anyway?
Yes, that was clumsy wording, perhaps 'female interest' would have been better.
Very interesting video up there ^^.
I have had bad experiences with road rage when I used to commute by bike. 3 times, all by men. 2 got out of their car and I really thought they were going to beat me up, one was when the children were walking to a nearby school and I had plenty of witnesses. The 3rd was a very overweight, unfit looking taxi driver who was driving 3 burly men at the time, oh how big he must have felt hurling abuse out of his window and calling me foul names.
All three of these particular instances made me feel incredibly vulnerable and very scared. Rightly or wrongly I really felt that these male drivers would not have used threatening behaviour had I been a male.
I could talk about this subject until blue in the face, but it all boils down to safety for women who cycle. Fear of traffic, fear of being attacked, fear of not being respected on our roads.
All 3 of my road rage moments were when I was a) making a right turn, b) staying in the centre of a narrow part of a road for 5 metres and c) just riding along.
There have been many, many minor instances, but these would apply to all people who cycle.
Even as a hairy ar$ed bloke I've been threatened, attempted mugging by four 'blokes' etc etc numerous times, so god knows how it must feel being a female cyclist.
Rightly or wrongly I really felt that these male drivers would not have used threatening behaviour had I been a male.
Sorry Bunnyhop, do you mean that you think that male cyclists don't get road rage aimed at them? I'm sure that's not what you mean? I've had plenty aimed at me - so often that I lost count years ago. That's maybe what I get for commuting in a fairly rough city, or maybe because I often react. It's also regularly inflicted by women, not just men.
yep, actually two women sharing their experiences on this thread. I was expecting 100% late middle aged men like me. Anyway, I don't think stw is very reflective of cyclists generally. It's some years since I was last on a club road ride but my impression is that these days there are now more fast young women about on the road. No idea how this would be borne out in any figures.
I don't have a similar feeling for off-road though that's pretty much all I do, as you don't see folks from the car. Have ebikes had much of an impact?
Guys - someone is giving you their experience as a woman & you're saying yeah I get that too, rather than just listen & agree that that sucks & yes it probably is much scarier being a woman in that situation.
Why is having someone aim their car at you and try to run you over 'much scarier being a woman in that situation'. Because I'm a big macho manly Kurt Russel sort of man?
Is it helpful to pretend that, as a man, road rage doesn't scare me? To pretend that I've never got home and said to my wife that I'm amazed that I make it home alive sometimes?
Bunnyhop can speak for herself, and I don't think I'm reading her comment correctly. Her experience, as described so far, is not as a woman, but as a road user being intimidated by other road users. Maybe there was a specific element of her experience that is relevant to being a woman, in which case I'll sympathise, but not otherwise - I've been too bullied on the roads by all sorts of motorists to take sides in this debate.
Guys - someone is giving you their experience as a woman & you're saying yeah I get that too, rather than just listen & agree that that sucks & yes it probably is much scarier being a woman in that situation.
Why is getting threatened by 2 tonnes of car and verbal abuse any more or less threatening by gender? I don’t suppose the abuser knows or cares what gender the cyclist is.
I like the premise that women will be safe on dedicated protected cycle lanes. My partner has be cycling to and from the MRI (Hospital) to visit her mother. She has had three incidents where she felt unsafe in the past few days. These include having car driven into the cycle lane to get past another vehicle, being overtaken at close quarters by one of the delivery riders travelling in the cycle lane at speed and being nearly taken out by a DHL driver turning right into a petrol station across the while steering with one hand and talking on a mobile phone.
This is all in the curry mile in Manchester which has a full set of cycle lanes.
Do you still feel safe in cycle lanes?
I think that almost every cyclist experiences some level of aggression on the roads and I believe that women are targeted more than men.
I think that it's not just about cyclists it's about general driving behaviour. Some car drivers will pull really stupid stunts to get to the back of the standing traffic quicker.
I chose to drive my partner to the hospital as it was late at night. We stopped at the red lights only to be overtaken by 2 cars, at speed which cut in front of a car waiting to turn right. Steps need to be taken to make the road fit to cycle and drive on.
My partner and I have cycled for commuting, utility and recreation around South Manchester for years and are not going to be put off by bad road behaviour, but as traffic levels and congestion increase driver behaviour becomes more impatient and dangerous.
Time to get a grip.
In case of doubt, this view is coming from a middle aged bloke so maybe totally unconnected to how ladies feel about things.
I only recently (last year or two) grasped the fact that women feel more vulnerable on isolated cycle facilities than men do, which is my own failing. And this was a woman who solo bikepacks in the wild, but didn't like proposed unlit cyclepaths through slightly isolated suburban areas.
I would say that there are noticeably more women riding - road, off road, social, commuting - than there were 20 years ago. I think gravel riding has seen quite a lot of women in my riding circle go that way as it's away from the perceived threat of traffic without needing you to huck yourself down mountains.
Think our club still runs 20-25% female members, which I believe is quite good for a BC affiliated club, but still not high enough. Most ride in mixed groups, some meet separately for women only rides, which is their choice.
Lots of local groups around us do women only rides, or women only repair sessions for punctures and such like - the club has done similar in the past. Great to see that practical support available if that is another potential barrier to supporting women to get out and ride.
Why is getting threatened by 2 tonnes of car and verbal abuse any more or less threatening by gender? I don’t suppose the abuser knows or cares what gender the cyclist is.
Possibly they don't, but the fears a woman faces whilst dealing with strangers out and about are vastly different to those faces by men. If you can't extend your imagination to what that might mean, probably don't post on a thread about gender diversity and how the world is a different place for 51% of its inhabitants.
On a more positive note, Pinkbike has a good thread for Women's Day. Amazingly for that place, there contents are all pretty upbeat. This one stood out for me
Why is getting threatened by 2 tonnes of car and verbal abuse any more or less threatening by gender? I don’t suppose the abuser knows or cares what gender the cyclist is.
This article articulates a lot of the issues far better than I can here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5z5z7ey4o
Oh & another article here...
As a man I have never felt threatened when someone comes & sits beside me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jvy4xn0l4o
I knew when I posted that someone would come up with the usual ......
However in my case (and I ride stoker with a bloke a lot), 2 of the experiences I described above happened imho because I am a small female and unlikely to be able to hit back. My many male friends really wouldn't have had the idiot getting out of his car to smack me just because I was signalling to turn right, in that particular instance I had a lot of female witnesses who were really shocked. At the time I hid behind a few of these women with their small children on their way to school, or the taxi driver crawling along shouting sexist abuse.
I have witnessed quite a few road rage scenes while out riding with others, but not the type where the driver got out of the car to clobber a male and yes I know this type of thing does happen.
I only recently (last year or two) grasped the fact that women feel more vulnerable on isolated cycle facilities than men do
Oh, I absolutely understand this bit, even if I didn't immediately agree with the premise that car drivers are particularly more aggressive towards women. However, there has actually been some analysis of why this might be the case.
https://www.womensgrid.org.uk/groups/?p=3324
The thread did start by discussing representation of women and I'm not sure it has stayed on that track but there you go 😉
The relatively low engagement from women on the website doesn't surprise me. Whilst there are less women in cycling than men, most cycling websites are actually bike websites. Looking at the homepage the articles are predominantly about bikes and bike parts.
Women, even those into cycling, are generally less into nerding out on bikes than men. Its anecdotal, but as an example of this there was a bike check video ahead of one of the XC world cups last year. There was a clear difference in the level of obsession with the kit between men and women. That's probably why YouTube sees a higher number of female creators; the platform is more suited to cycling content rather than bike content.
In my experience women are a lot more likely to get verbal abuse, threats, and worse than men are. Irrespective of whether they're cycling or not. I appreciate that this is in no way scientific. Incidentally I once pursued a range Rover that caused me to fall off. Red mist descended and I took off after them as they had stopped at the lights Turned out there was 4 guys in the car, red mist vanished so I turned around and went back the way I came because I 6ft 4 and 17.5 stone was scared
The relatively low engagement from women on the website doesn't surprise me. Whilst there are less women in cycling than men, most cycling websites are actually bike websites. Looking at the homepage the articles are predominantly about bikes and bike parts.
Fair point - be interesting to know what participation is on the womens page, and what the thread titles are!
Why is getting threatened by 2 tonnes of car and verbal abuse any more or less threatening by gender? I don’t suppose the abuser knows or cares what gender the cyclist is.
Because I'm an easier target. You can accept that or not. I have been on the receiving end of it twice.
Front and rear cameras now.
be interesting to know what participation is on the womens page, and what the thread titles are!
Going back to my earlier post, the Women's Forum doesn't seem to be there anymore. Not sure if it's been taken down or it's some sort of glitch.
I'm with Dolcered. Riding or even once walking on my own I've had abuse. While riding the tandem with a male pilot, virtually no abuse.
We are an easier target.
Once while on a group mtb ride, an idiot in a car was a little annoyed that several mtbers were holding him up on a road for a couple of minutes. He waited for the only female in the group, who was riding a little off the back, before letting rip with the abuse. That female rider was me.
Aside from the traffic / abuse / safety stuff, my observation is that females are generally less keen to get cold and dirty than men.
Please note, generalisation, not accross the board. This is based on the active ladies I know personally.
I just yesterday came back from a week in Gran Canaria, which included a couple of days on hired bikes. My wife would be a regular roadie if we lived there, she really enjoys it. In Scotland, not a chance.
Riding up to the Pico, it's great to see so many women out on bikes. It's a long way off 50/50, but much more than you'd see on a day out in the UK.
Late comment on this ... I noticed a few bike companies celebrating Women's Day online are massive majority male employees - yes it's good to recognise it but a lot of it looks like a token gesture. Every bike company I worked for has been male-dominated and the only one where significantly senior or influential positions were held by women had a female CEO. Another company had a good balance within engineering, although that's another male-biased line of work they actively encouraged a balanced department. If we wonder why cycling is male dominated I think the industry is part of the reason - cause and effect - historical factors in cycling culture, products and environment made for 'us' because a lot of the industry is boys playing with toys. How many bike brands have female product managers or product leads? Very few.
There can be great workplaces or teams of any gender mix or balance, personalities count most, I do think cycling could do with a shake-up though. New ideas and influences.
Why is getting threatened by 2 tonnes of car and verbal abuse any more or less threatening by gender?
What we experience as a threat level can be equally stressful but surely a man who will verbally or physically threaten a woman is a different level of aggressive arsehole entirely and women must realise that. A man threatening a women has got real issues, a lack of filter at least or real anger management issues at worst.
How is the representation of women doing in the sport/recreation/utility cycling? The trade shows and the industry is dominated by men, the forums appear to be dominated by men and even the esteemed STW magazine and website is dominated by men.
Is our pastime getting better with the inclusion of all sections of our society or is it regressing into a tightly knit group of (mostly wealthy) white men?
Back to the OP, tbh I'd say little has changed in the 20+ years I've been working in the bike industry. But I expect it will start to change from the outside in, in time. There are growth areas in cycling that have far more gender-balanced participation than MTB - gravel/adventure and road riding. Cycling brands will hire in riders and people who know the scene as well as have relevant experience and there are more women who would qualify than there were 10-15 years ago. And the brands / companies need to be places they'd want to work, of course.
Perhaps @IdleJon is just expressing a different point of view?
I worked in a bicycle shop for a few years after retiring from the fire service. A woman was taken on who had the aptitude and interest to become a mechanic and I tried to encourage the shop owner to take the leap (for him) and train her. That was all a bit too much of a radical idea for him, he was awkward around female customers at times and when some of our “special” customers came in he used to disappear!
I always tried to give people with no mechanical ability a bit of guidance, if they needed it, or wanted it, whatever gender. I always thought a female mechanic would have been a great asset to the shop and encourage others to try it.
On topic post - I did a 100km audax on International Women's Day. It was organised by a woman and about a third of entrants were female which was more than the normal 10%'ish which I see on typical audax rides in my area. with
The ride had been advertised as being on IWD with females encouraged to ride it. Listening to conversations at the finish I think quite a few of the older female riders were involved in womens cycling through leading rides etc. They has encouraged females to ride and were successful in that.
The organiser - Karolina Deutsch - has four rides from late April to July starting from Tadpole Garden Village near Swindon. The distances are 50, 100, 150 and 200km.
Ideal events for anyone wanting to try audax of either gender.
“Bloody hell gents,” - a quote from the forum today. We have a way to go yet!
An uplifting short film from that there “USA”
I think the link should work!
There's an interesting article on the BBC News website at the moment, it's about female runners but presumably perfectly relevant to female cyclists and a sad indictment of what women can be up against.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2xrzm8dpvo
I saw that too. Parents have a responsibility to educate their children, as well as us men to call misogynistic behaviour out.
I did 32 years as a Firefighter. When I started extreme bullying was rife, lots of ex forces were employed at that time. With pressure from the FBU and forward thinking County Councils’ behaviour changed, mostly through education - those much derided diversity courses - they did help. When women and ethnic minorities started to be employed it briefly got worse and then better with people enabled to challenge.
In the last ten years of my employment (2000-2010) it got worse again with a new “macho”culture, bullying increased, partly encouraged by management as a dividing tactic.
I’m still an FBU member (since 1978!) and reading the newsletters the problem is as bad as ever - a reflection of society?
I’m still calling out misogyny, racism and bullying too, wherever I encounter it, I consider it my human duty.