[Closed] I'm at the end of my tether.....teenager content

Introduce him to girls??

I'd be tempted to "call his bluff". Could well be grief related. At least look to find some professional help, and that might be social services. Let them chat with him.

wot scotroutes says

Grief does strange things to folk. He needs some help is my guess. His behaviour is a way of crying for help.

Sorry to hear that, in my limited experience I'd also be one for calling his bluff but not sure how you'd manage to do that given the situation / give the heads up to social services however you might need to involve them if he's being violent to younger siblings 😕 rest assured it will be just a phase that he goes through and there will be light at the end of the tunnel - you wouldn't believe how apologetic my oldest kid is about his past now that he has kids of his own

The down side is, he keeps blaming his behaviour on grief.

Probably a big part of it though, especially if it's unresolved and he's angry about the unfairness of it all, compounded by being a teenager (I certainly remember my teenage years being pretty traumatic).

.... and we would all be better off without him.

This would be a red flag for me too and it's not an uncommon thought process in depression.

I'm no expert & I don't even have kids but it sounds to me that he needs to offload with someone, and this often needs to be away from the family - tough to do if he's refusing to do so but would there be any support options through school/college? Are there any experts you can access for advice?

He is on anti depressants and has had grief counselling before but refused to talk. Each time I've set up in school counselling he refuses to go and tells them he doesn't want it. I've got someone at the moment trying to sort out counselling for him, just waiting to have the confirmation of it. I will literally drag him there if I have to and he knows I will. But I can't make him talk or listen to any guidance or advice he gets.

As far as friends and girls go, he won't go out. When he does he's usually back within an hour with all sorts of stories. He pushes everyone away with the way he's behaving and his attitude is unbelievably bad, arrogant and selfish. I don't like to talk this way of him as he can be a really good kid, but all of this is really dragging me down. He's been like this for a few years, since before lyanda passed away, but got a lot worse recently.

probably a blessing that he does not go out much as he may get in with a bad crowd at this time and may avoid you.

It's tough being a teenager, and especially with what he's been through it must be very tough.Same for you, it's tough being a parent to stroppy teenagers, and you've been through a lot.

Is there someone 'neutral' he can talk to, like a close family friend or grandparent. My sister was just a little cow at that age  and her and my mum were permanently daggers drawn; but our aunt became that rational person who she'd listen to and could phone when she needed to vent.

We also have a family friend, where the mother died 6 years ago due to a brain tumour. Their daughter's 15 now and largely out of the other side but at 13ish, which in girl years is about the same as 15/16 year old boys, she was also going astray, not in the anger and violence way but was walking out of lessons at any mention of families, death, anything. We were sure there was reason but equally she was using the 'I don't have a mum and when people talk about families....' or 'I can't discuss funeral rites in various religions because....' to just get out of lessons and go and sit in the pastoral office. With her it was one of the mum's closest university friends who stepped in and basically said that inevitably her life would be impacted by what had happened previously but it's her choice what that would be. She could choose to become a victim of it, or she could use it as the stimulus to make her mum proud of what she could achieve despite.

Is there someone he trusts and who he'll listen to who can be that voice?

And don't let him affect you. Teenagers are all little shits from time to time and you're not doing anything wrong. Keep calm, walk away when you need to and he'll come through it. By the time he's about 28 this'll probably be a memory 😉

He’s been like this for a few years, since before lyanda passed away, but got a lot worse recently.

That's your "get out of jail free" counter, then. "Don't give me that shit, you've been like this for years." Maybe with a side order of pointing out that he's not the only one who's grieving and how does he think everyone else is feeling?

Grief might partly explain his behaviour but it doesn't excuse it, doubly so if he refuses to accept help in dealing with it.

You’d think after everything that has happened he wouldn’t want any more drama

Not necessarily. Disruption can be reassuring.

That’s your “get out of jail free” counter, then. “Don’t give me that shit, you’ve been like this for years.” Maybe with a side order of pointing out that he’s not the only one who’s grieving and how does he think everyone else is feeling?

You’re ascribing a level of empathy and self awareness there that no 16 year old boy possesses.

They’re all little self centred shitehawks at that age

I'm not going to add much to what has already been said.
I do want to say that you are a great dad, that teens can vary between argumentative wind up merchants and sweetness and light within the same hour, and that you will come out the other side of this.

Matt, father of 3 boys who exhibit behaviour similar to your lads on an alternating basis.

You’re ascribing a level of empathy and self awareness there that no 16 year old boy possesses.

Perhaps. I'm not a parent and haven't been a 16-year old boy myself for 30 years. Probably best not to listen to me.

Sorry to hear this, sounds really tough.

Hope he gets some help soon Alan.
You are a good dad btw.

Even now, 27yrs on I find it hard to find the words to express my emotions and my experience of losing a parent in my teens. His friends won't know how to relate and he will find it difficult to control his feelings, having to keep up a cheery disposition when he really wants to breakdown. It will all come out when he gets home, it's where he feels safe and secure and you know the loss he's struggling to accept.
It sounds like some sort of intervention is necessary to give him strategies to cope with his feelings as there are always triggers and we may not always be able to identify them. What would have helped me when I was younger was if my peers were counselled in how to cope with the grief and depression of others, if we were taught how to listen it might perhaps be more useful than trying to pick up the pieces when someone breaks down.
Are there any support groups for teens who have lost a parent near you? It might be of help to him to receive support from a peer group rather than an adult who has a scripted set of outcomes.
Feel free to pm me if it would help

Our daughter can be a challenge- largely due jealousy of the care our son gets as he has CP, even though we try to balance the attention they get.

At school and cubs she is little miss perfect and has been praised for helping younger children.

It’s not much comfort when you’re in the eye of the storm, but we’ve been told that one reason kids will be worse at home is that they feel safer “exploding” there and getting the feelings out especially if they can’t do so in a rational way.

I've nothing useful to add, except perhaps to suggest that those close to me in vaguely similar situations have found https://www.widowedandyoung.org.uk/ useful. Even if he won't engage they may have ideas to help you help him.

However:

Creates arguments for no reason... ... won’t listen and involves anyone and everyone he can ... Then sits back and watches the carnage unfold .

did make me wonder if he should have a STW account... he'd accelerate to big hitter status instantly!

having to keep up a cheery disposition

That doesn't ring true. My 15 year old son is the most miserable bugger, and he doesn't have the justification of any family trauma to give him cause. I have appropriated the term 'funsponge' off here to describe his demeanour

Teens generally are bloody awful. Teens who actually have stuff to deal with must be utterly dreadful.

Soon to be 16?

How about the army, something to get his teeth into?

Didn’t read all the replies, you mention AD meds. Is there a possibility that he isn’t getting on with is prescription?

Counselling away from school may work better for him.

The “better off without me” bit is a worry.

How about seeing Your GP? The Dr will know the situation and may be able to advise. My last GP in the UK was superb.

Best wishes.

Sorry for the lack of replies, really struggling with it all today. I've wandered the same about the meds, trying to get him to go to the doctors is another battle though. I might have to go and see him myself and talk it through and see what he suggests might be the best way forward.

I have told him that he isn't the only one grieving and everybody grieves in different ways. Also said, rightly or wrongly, that he needs to remember this as much as he can as any of us could be having a really bad day too.

He has mentioned joining the army a few times over the past few years which I think would do him some good. He is one of those types that discipline would benefit him. Tried getting him to join the cadets previously, flat out no, despite the local centre being just round the corner.

As far as joining here goes, he might be a big hitter alright! Although he'd probably get banned in no time if he did here the same as he does at home.

Bereavement affects us all differently, hes is just failing to cope and sees asking for help and advice a s being a failure, an older family freind or a total stranger will be the best possible thing to happen to him to have a chat a way from home, to be listened to and respected.

There may also be deeper problems,eg sexuality problems, money worries, freindship/relationship problems,bullying,also non prescribed drugs, as well as prescribed drugs, all these things happen in teenagers worlds and they cant cope.

I know it’s difficult but is there a way of spending some Dad time with just him - camping or mtb,ing away or something? Not putting any pressure on him to talk but just spending some dedicated time? Am thinking he’s feeling ‘on his own’ and sometimes just sat there with your Dad can help

It's a terrible time when you're that age. How is he with personal responsibility? I used to push this quite hard with my two. He'll get bored of you asking, 'what are you going to do to sort out your problem with my help"? The grief can't be helping either of you and you will probably have days when he needs help and you really don't want to deal with it due to holding your own problems in check. I suspect you won't be found wanting though it will help if you point out in plain terms that you will always be in his corner no matter what.

Good luck and this too shall pass.

I went through all the resentment when I was 15 - 16, I hated everybody and was moody and introverted. My sister's kids went through it all with alcohol thrown in. I got back on track and so did they, eventually. But it was tough for my sister and BIL.

My guess is that he actually wants attention so it becomes the same reward/ignore that you use to socialise younger children - ignore the bad behaviour no matter how provocative and reward good social behaviour.

Firstly, I hear you. It is very hard with a teen disrupting your family and soaking up all the attention. I understand that you feel like you're the only one who can help him. It will absorb all your effort and perhaps be unfair on all the other kids. That balance is very difficult. At some stage you will decide that there is only so much you can do. He has to accept responsibility. Without wishing to sound like I am blaming you, it might be that you are co-dependent, he knows that you you will always pick up after him and he will indulge himself because he knows you will always be there for him, and that's good but as a teenager he will take the pee. It's very hard but you might need to enforce some very difficult ground rules. Even very indulgent ones, but you need some lines on the sand.

Your lad does sound like he needs some help. I've not read all above, but have you tried CAMHS? They can be very good, a psychologist as opposed to a counsellor, so more expertise. The problem is that there was the often long waiting lists, bit if he talks of
“better off without me” this might be called 'suicidal ideation' and you would both be fast tracked'. Not a great way, but it might be better sooner rather than later.

Most importantly, you need to find a way of letting it go too. If you don't keep yourself healthy, you won't be able to support all those that need you, including your boy. It's like the oxygen mask. Make sure you have yours before helping others.

The army is often promoted as a solution for boys needing 'discipline' that might work whilst he is on. But remember that when many who lack structure in their lives leave the army, the lose that structure again and can really suffer as a result. Only be careful.

I used to work for Cyrenians who also do this. There might be similar in your area. I don't think a referral is required:

https://scottishconflictresolution.org.uk/

It is entirely set up for people in you. And your lads situation. There might be similar in your area.

He really needs to see a counsellor, as Charlie above says CAMHS can be good but the waiting list I found was too long and ended up going private. It needs to be someone he feels at ease with otherwise he'll not open up, it will take time but I totally understand half the problem is getting him to go in the first place. See if there is a counselling service available locally that is reasonable. For reference, the counselling service I use for my daughter has fees based on earnings, so it can make it affordable rather than waiting for NHS.

On the off chance you have private medical cover they can be very good at getting you to see the right people. Who were the meds prescibed by, a doctor? If so, try and get him to a pediatric psychologist for assesment, they can also suggest counsellors they work with.

Stay strong and good luck.

Lol at anyone who suggested the army.

Losing a parent as a teenager is really hard. I lost my mum when I was 13 and don’t really know how I dealt with it.

My mum and dad divorced a few years before she was diagnosed with cancer. The only thing my sister and I knew was that we didn’t want to live with our dad because he was an a-hole (alcoholic, abusive etc).

We ended living with my grandparents (on my mums side). They did a great job although my sister was a bitch to my Nan. We were doing Ok I think but my Nan became ill and passed away three years later which was when the wheels came off really. My grandparents were never that close by my grandad was struggling loosing his wife of 40 years and dealing with two teens (16 and 14). We certainly clashed a fair bit; I was angry, generally pissed off and headstrong. Lots of shouting, swearing, slammed doors etc. Right though until uni I was pretty petulant and could be a dick. Luckily I had an uncle (youngest of four) who I was very close to. A few harsh conversations, lots of tears etc and I seemed to get on a better track with life.

I don’t think my sister has dealt with it very well and still seems to struggle an awful lot.

I don’t know how close your lad was to his mum, but I’m not sure it’s ever something that gets dealt with entirely. Although I can openly talk about it, key life events become tough. For example, I found the birth of my little boy really tough etc.

Getting back on topic, a close relative / family friend who he looks up to could well help.

A bit of relaxed ‘dad’ time could help too if there is something that you both enjoy. It doesn’t need to be loads, just some.

Good luck.

He sounds very similar to one of mine, and also to the eldest son of a friend of mine.

It might be worth talking to him, that worked surprisingly well for my friend.

It didn't work for me, that just ended up with shouty arguments. In the end he left home of his own accord, and I think everyone is actually a lot happier now.

A friend of ours is involved with this lot.

https://www.naotp.com/

They promote P.A.C.E -  a method that works with children who have suffered trauma. It's counter-intuitive for most people, but is working for our friend.

They have a free to join FB group with practical tips / things to try.

Hi Gnusmas, firstly good to read that you're not blaming yourself for his behaviour, as you really shouldn't be.

Not sure if you remember my story from your previous thread, but basically my mum died suddenly when I was sixteen and my brother had to tell me that she had just died. I never put any blame on him for the way he told me, but like you, he worried about what he had said for years.

What helped me get through was having three older brothers who I looked up to and who were incredibly supportive. Whilst I didn't go overboard, I struggled with not having a mum to be..... 'a mum'. My dad wasn't as good as you, he was out of his depth and pretty soon after, moved another woman in to replace his missing wife (not something I blame him for btw).

In a longwinded way I'm trying to say, your son is probably still suffering, not because of what you've done, but because he's lost his mum. I think, as others have said, he needs someone outside of his immediate situation to talk to. But it has to be someone he trusts. That sadly won't be a stranger, unless they can be introduced to him slowly and without any preconception on his part. He probably wants to talk but is scared to confront his feelings as they hurt big time.

As I have said I had brothers who all lived away from home and so, as far as I was concerned at the time, they weren't suffering as badly as I was and so I could talk to them. Funnily enough it was the brother who told me, that was the easiest to talk to. As I did at the time, your son probably wants the 'cuddle', the support, the reassurance, of his mum. If my dad had tried to do that at the time, I probably would've rejected it and rebelled against it.

He might also want to forget the life he finds himself in and make it all go away..... Would seem a logical way of thinking in his situation. You and the rest of your family are a constant reminder of what he's lost and he doesn't want to be reminded. His behaviour might be him lashing out at what life has dealt him.

You are probably too close to him for him to talk freely to, and you're grieving too, so in his mind you can't help.

Sorry I can't give any real answers but I think you speaking with a doctor, or even a counsellor, might be a good start. Ideally, if you have someone in the family, or a friend, that he likes and trusts, they would probably be the best person for him to talk to.

Teenagers can be sods, but remember, they know not what they do! As before, one day he will thank you for the love you have, and are, showing him. Stick with it, don't be too soft with him, nor too hard, try to detach yourself from the situations he causes (he doesn't mean it) and don't react badly. In a way he wants the bad reaction as that's what he thinks he deserves.

As before, you are doing a truly brilliant job, one that you should be proud of.

Hi

Have you spoken about your son to a mental health professional? You've been able to express the situation eloquently here so I have every confidence you could talk in more detail to someone with experience in this area. They may be able to give you some useful guidance and advice on how to talk to your son and help him through this.

The no longer wants to be here conversation sets a little alarm off in my head as does the physical harm of his siblings. I don't want to cause undue alarm but could he be suicidal? My instinct is that you should seek out professional help now. Getting a handle for yourself on why he is behaving as he is may help you to better understand and support him. Right now, the immediate issue is the physical violence. Does he recognise that that is unacceptable? I would suggest tackling that is probably the most important issue for you as a family to deal with.

Hope this helps?

Sanny

Just a few ideas to give you some inspiration.
Buy a knackered stripped out motorbike and 'help' him re-build it ?
Football / Rugby club?
Road cycling club?
Take him to a rugby or footy match with a couple of his mates, can be lower league , still fun
Watch some rallying or other motorsport event

I appreciate that with other kids your time is very limited but it sounds like he could use a distraction

There must be something he is vaguely interested in. The guy in the unit next door lost his wife to Cancer this year and his son , abit younger , took it badly , but another guy in a different unit breeds Budgies and this lad showed an interest . Now they have full on avairy and it has brought the lad out of himslef. What about a dog?
Fishing ? Good way to get some time away from home and relax and contemplate stuff
Falconary day ? bit spendy but flying an owl or Hawk could be something different

Surfing, where all the cool girls go . Gower i think even a boogy board can be fun if its rough , need a wetsuit though .

Gnusmas,

I have started writing this several times and I know you have gone through hell and sometimes it feels like it never ends. I am currently in the middle of something similar that involves teenage mental health and while I can’t offer any solutions I have a few suggestions:
1 CAMHS are great, but overwhelmed. Get him on the waiting list, but don’t pin your hopes on it. You can do this with a docs appointment and referral. The suicidal thoughts are key here, but a note of caution in how you express it can be a trigger for him, so make sure you figure out how to talk to the doctor about that (possibly him not there). You tend only to get fast tracked on to CAMHS if suicide attempt actually occurs, or other life threatening health issues such as self harm/eating disorders. I hope it never comes to that.
2 A lot of what you are saying about his behaviour can be complex as you have the teenager bits mixed up with some obvious mental health possibilities. My daughter just withdrew more and more and stopped socialising, which we now see was linked to a lack of self worth, anxiety, depression and lots of other things. You are also being pushed away mentally and physically, which is a deliberate isolation strategy, which we had and we have had to try different strategies to communicate. Now we can text if things are really rough, even if we are in the same room and cannot communicate any other way. Text to voice was also a way of talking/not talking, but it has been ruined as it is too reminiscent of Lost Voice Guy. We have even had emails to us (some of the he key breakthroughs have been through that, but it does tend to be one way). You just have to find a small way of getting through and then keep trying.
3 This may be a breakdown of trust where your son feels everybody is untrustworthy and you have to find some way of building that back up. If there is anything that you do together, especially if you don’t have to talk, you just do then that can be the start. We also ended up getting a low maintenance pet, a rabbit in our case, as my daughter was housebound and the rabbit was outside. It provided a trigger to be able to experiment with getting out of the door. It also gave a focus and a cuddle that was not human that calmed the mood down, or changed the focus.

Above all it all takes time and energy. I know I just have to keep being thankful for each day and being able to start afresh each morning. That gives me just about enough to get through, but you need your support network as well. If it isn’t there then keep using this place if ever you need. I am constantly amazed how this disparate but of bike enthusiasts can pull together when we really need them to. If you ever want to chat off line then DM me.

Andy

Apologies for the radio silence, I have read all your replies and I thank you all for your input.

Quite a lot of other things have happened too which I haven't put on here, so spent the past couple of days trying to get my head round everything.

He saw CAMHS briefly earlier this year and was discharged after 2 sessions, they said he was fine and didn't need their input. Been trying to talk to anyone to see what help is available but keep getting nowhere. So I took drastic action on Sunday, at least where he is concerned. I completely shut down access to everything online on his devices. He is currently extremely limited to what he can do.

As a result, last night he actually came and talked to me. He even revealed a few things I didn't know about, even asked for counselling! It seems like we've turned a corner slightly. I know its early days and there will be a lot of difficult ones ahead but one step at a time and hopefully we'll get there.

I have also sorted a family membership at the local leisure centre. Not cheap, and probably not something I can realistically afford but it gives all of us access to lots of activities. The benefits of this should dramatically outweigh the money side of things. So some weekly family swimming ahead as well as gym time for me and him amongst other things. Just got to get motivated enough to do it all now.

Trying to keep positive and trying to keep moving forward. Not easy, but I need to and I have to. Thanks again to you all, your support is once again amazing and greatly received.