[Closed] If not the UK, where ?

I think it's the self destructive negativity that puts me off the UK 😉

Stay here and do something about it.
I should imagine the rest of the world has got its arse holes , they just haven't been given a platform to let everyone know it.

Canada would be my choice. Australia always an option but too far and too expensive these days.

I reccommend NZ if you can afford it. Went there in 2003 for six weeks, visiting friends/biking. Beautiful, relaxed, friendly. No worries.

I'm heading for the Spanish Sierras myself.

Don't blame you. Good luck.

Neither Canada nor NZ are in the EU and both have far lower population densities than the UK. Sounds like your aspirations of a nice place to live are identical to a Brexiteer.

Depends on what you want. Relaxed, quiet life = New Zealand, definitely. Canada is also amazing, although the winters can get a little wearing after a while! There is also, of course, a great deal of variance within each country too course!

Plus, of course, NZ is a good distance away from the sh1t if we get Trump pushing the button or Clinton failing to stand up to Putin...

I'm heading to Germany in Jan 2017 to be with the other half, just on the Swiss border. Beautiful place, nice people and work available, weather similar to uk but generally has proper seasons - instead of the thick dull cloud overhead all the time.same thoughts as Kimberly re kids etc...

Make the leap.....

[can of worms]

Independent Scotland

[/can of worms]

there's nothing wrong with the UK (apart from the weather) you worry too much. 🙂

Aside the outward view that this country is going to the dogs in terms of politics, press etc, id think about what for you personal to your family is encouraging you to leave...employment, health, lifestyle etc

For me personally I think its very easy to look outwards and *think* everything is going to the dogs but then I walk away from the media and realise everything is pretty much same as, same as and, although I'm not happy with some aspects of this country's direction, i know at present i can't think of one country where the advantages of leaving the UK outweigh the disadvantages

NZ would be great, but it's a very, very long way away. With ageing parents it's a tough decision to make.

BC in Canada would be my first choice, somewhere around the North Shore area. Close to Van for decent work & transport links, plus all the outdoors you can handle on the doorstep. I really do like the ideology of a more off the grid, self sustained lifestyle.

I sometimes wonder why we're still here (parents & family mostly).

I don't think i've liked the UK for a while.

If you're concerned then why not organise a march or invent a wrist band?

Ask yourself, does NZ want you and your negative attitude?

As someone who took the jump, you have to remember that no matter where you are you are still the same person (at first) and that if you are moving for a negative reason then maybe that negativity is actually inside you and you need to resolve that first before than looking for positive reasons to move.

Beer talking IMHO etc

If you're concerned then why not organise a march or invent a wrist band?

So last year. You need a petition and a hashtag these days.

Or, just do a faux flounce, a la http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paul-ogrady-says-hell-leave-5633834

and that if you are moving for a negative reason then maybe that negativity is actually inside you and you need to resolve that first before than looking for positive reasons to move.

And consider the ex-pat community will be a concentrated version of what you dislike here...

Just ignore the media, it's actually not that bad out there.

Somewhere else in Europe? 😉
My brother and family are at Eden Park (of U2 One Tree Hill fame) just outside Auckland and love it. Not perfect, he says it can be small town mentality like us as well, school system can be a challenge at first, land access is poor.

Scotland: stay in the EU, and get awesome mountain biking as a bonus.

"Just ignore the media, it's actually not that bad out there."

I think Britain's a great place to live and the people I meet are lovely pretty much without exception.

There are people in France risking their lives clinging to lorries to get here which says to me we're very welcoming and life here is very good.

And consider the ex-pat community

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Anyhow the press may be *slowly* improving, e.g. the guardian finally reports on muslim paedophile gangs instead of denying their existence for years and shouting 'racist' at anyone who spoke the uncomfortable truth. So chin up, chap.

I had the chance to jump ship and did , there are positives and negatives and it's very personal as to why you would want to move and whether it would work .

There are things I miss about the UK but I do feel that where we live now gives an improved chance of a 'better' life for my children than they would have in the UK . What is 'better' , that's a very subjective point and down to you to work out, and it's an improved chance to have it, it is not guaranteed.

Belgium? Cyclocross, beer, and......that's it really. Two pillars of a civilised society, though.
Plus they didn't have a government for abar two years so politics can't be much of a distraction there.

Yeah maybe I am being too negative.
Wife and I both feel that our kids might be better served elsewhere. (It was a very depressing QT that started the discussion)

Considering Europe, wife's lived in Spain and liked it, I have friends in Germany and France that could help with job etc too.

Have lived and worked in USA and loved the outdoor lifestyle while I was there. Trump vs Clinton doesn't indie, tho friends have just moved to California for others to new Jersey, both seem happy.

Greas is greener etc just feel that the kids are young enough to benefit now, so it's a good time

We are also in a good position financially at the moment and have good qualifications etc

Switzerland
California (San Francisco)

Visited both many times but lived in neither place (did live in NYC for 3 years), mix of outdoor lifestyle and work opportunities

Kimbers one regret I have is not living a riad more, always interesting to get to know a place. Take care re Europe many French have been coming here as their economy is so weak. As you know Inthink Europe is standing on a precipice and it's a very long way down

Have lived and worked in USA and loved the outdoor lifestyle while I was there. Trump vs Clinton doesn't indie, tho friends have just moved to California for others to new Jersey, both seem happy.

But the real question is who would have you 😉

The comments about the nature of the "ex-pat" community say more about the commentators and their prejudices. You get all sorts, same as anywhere else.

For instance, the majority of the "ex-pats" where I'm trying to move to, would find an immediate soulmate in the likes of jhj...

France or Germany I think. Maybe HK but not long term

California??? I know you think a bit differently Jamba but that is the maddest statement ever. Lovely to visit but wouldn't live there. Cost, pollution, the huge inevitable earthquake and the biggest problem Californians all bikram yoga, designer coffee, knitted yoghurt, empty headed vanity.

Kimbers, you're in MK I believe. As a fellow resident, it's difficult to imagine a better urban environment for kids to grow up in. Tons of green space, great cycling, easy access to London...

(It was a very depressing QT that started the discussion)

MK? Anywhere will seem like paradise.

Why not ask all the optimists how they got on? Those that stayed behind in:

Germany
Italy
Soviet Russia
Quiet a few Balkan countries
... you get the point.

Only pessimists survive.*

*But who'd want to live with a grumpy guss anyway? 😀

Canada. Big place, few people. Civilized. Has snow for skiing and mountains enough for riding bikes.

But yes the winters do get a bit extreme. Though west coast round Vancouver is more like British weather (rains a lot), and Whistler is just up the road.

Other place is Utah, because it's awesome for skiing and mountain biking 😀

But I'd have a hard time living in the US. Chances are I'll be shot for being a cynical non-patriot. Though they do seem to love Brits. Always been friendly when been over there. Just when in a bar and discussion gets to flag waving level it's tricky.

Also US restrictions on where you can ride is worse than UK, and riders also have a no riding off road in wet weather policy.

It would've been Canada for me if I'd been younger except I wouldv'e gone when we joined the EU.
Been telling my kids to emigrate for years.

I'd be steering clear of europe, seems to be trouble brewing in many places, rise of far right etc, even before taking potential economic meltdown into account.

Have to question US too given the two candidates they have chosen for president.

That leaves NZ,Aus,Can. Think NZ would be my choice.

I grew up in NZ and have lived in Australia. Both, IMO, are wonderful places and I'd go back if work allowed me and I didn't have ageing parents in the UK. The lifestyle is much more outdoorsy than the UK. I have friends with kids who have settled in both countries and the kids have thrived and made lots of friends, play Aussie Rules, swim and surf etc. Generally, I find Australia a more open, friendly and upbeat sort of place than here.
Canada too cold for me...

@ 5thElephant.

MK. Ever lived there ? It's crap to visit (unless you like shopping) but excellent for living. Huge, easily accessible green spaces, great traffic free cycling, and (mostly) decent housing and schools.

I can ride the 4 miles to Waitrose without going on a single road, and mostly through parkland. Kids can do that to school. Woburn on your doorstep. etc. etc. But if you've never lived there there's no way to understand.

Andyt, that sounds like our area, we are in Black Forest, near Basel...
It's very nice indeed.

Whoops! Wrong thread! 😳

Kimbers, you're in MK I believe. As a fellow resident, it's difficult to imagine a better urban environment for kids to grow up in. Tons of green space, great cycling, easy access to London...

Yes we moved here last year and it's a brilliant place, weve got our perfect house surrounded by green and trees, right next to a lake, good schools, great riding at woburn, no traffic, miles and miles of segregated cycle ways

If we could just replicate all this in a country that's a tolerant leftie utopia my angst would be over

I'm half an hour south of Vienna. In the wine region. I'm near the eastern border of the Alps. Nearest bike park / ski resort is 35 minutes by car (Semmering). There's a huge lake (Neusidlersee) 20 minutes in the other direction. Hungary is 15 minutes away and everything there is so much cheaper (food, clothes etc).
Austrian health system is amazing, quality of life is good with zero stress and as long as you learn the language, Austrian people are very friendly.
I love it here. I still have a place in Snowdonia but my sister lives there now.

Surely anywhere in the Utopian EU would be better than here