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There was footage of England and Russia fans just as happy before the clashes, Bongo. Give them another five pints.
Your Express link is mainly hearsay, Badnewz. The guy in a critical condition was beat about the head with an iron bar not kicked according to French sources. I suggest watching videos rather than believe what journos say.
There was footage of England and Russia fans just as happy before the clashes, Bongo. Give them another five pints.
I am still confident those same English and Russian fans would be happily getting pissed together after 10 pints. I'd wager it wasn't the ultras drinking with the English early on, but normal Russian and English fans having a laugh.
Badnewz, this has nothing to do with ****s being English but rather ****s being ****s. No matter what way you spin this there is NO excuse for engaging in running battles, especially with police. Only a child thinks 'he started it' is a valid excuse for equally bad behaviour.
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Not going to comment on this, one way or another.
What I will say is that it's glaringly obvious from people's comments, exactly who has, and who hasn't, ever been to a high profile footy match, never mind an international.
French TV (channel 6 showing the England game) asked why there where only 6 British police advisors. Major security failings for the Russins to have flares etc in the stadium. Its not like the Russians don't have form for this sort of thing. No doubt guilt on both sides.
Mrs Vardy had some pretty critical things to say on Twitter, teargas for no reason etc
@Squirrelking, I suppose the question then is, what should they have done?
I think the English fans throwing bottles at the police were not victims.
But there were lots of England fans amid them who were victims, who were picked on, and that's what I've tried to point out. It seems to me you simply think anyone in an England shirt is a hooligan and deserves what they get.
This is the PC line to take - always blame the English, and frankly, it's boring as it is inaccurate. Infact, it arguably makes the England fans more of a target, as the attackers know they can blame it on the English.
For the record, I can't stand football, and you'd have to pay me to attend a tournament. I'm more bothered by the way in which the mainstream media always go immediately for the anti-English angle. How we ended up with such levels of self-hatred is beyond me.
How we ended up with such levels of self-hatred is beyond me.
South Yorkshire police might have had something to do with that one.
@badnewz care to point out where I said it was anything to do with folk being English? From the start I have been discussing the behaviour if those retaliating, not anyone else. And don't back pedal now, you have defended the aggressors umpteen times now.
As for what I think they should have done, close ranks, keep the provocateurs' at bay and then let the police do their job instead of fighting them. Hardly rocket science is it?
This is the PC line to take - always blame the English, and frankly, it's boring as it is inaccurate. Infact, it arguably makes the England fans more of a target, as the attackers know they can blame it on the English.
There's a long tradition of England going to major tournaments and being involved in trouble. It has its roots in a particular brand of oafish patriotism which is fuelled by a right wing media.
It's an arrogant, aggressive and xenophobic approach to the world. It's a hatred and distrust of anything 'foreign', an attempt to cling to the last scraps of the British Empire.
It's a boozed up extension of what's constantly preached in the media by Farage, Johnson and pals. And yet this is never the issue.
It's the Russians. It's the French police. It's French hooligans. It's the Muslims.
English hooligans are one of the world's most oppressed minorities - forever targeted and mistreated. Why can't they just be left in peace; free to get pissed in town squares and allowed to hurl abuse, hatred, bottles and chairs at non English people?
Can't the authorities organise a fake football match just for the thugs and let them fight it out?
Some pics doing the rounds of some lovely exchanges* between German and Ukrainians in Lille.
*Possibly debates on the merits or not thereof of joining the EU, although I doubt it. I did wonder about the risk of contagion from the clashes in Marseilles spreading to other cities.
I am just hoping Russia don't play Ukraine. People will probably die.
Link ?
This is fun! 😯
We don't need a Brexit to plunge Europe into all out war, we just needed the beautiful game to help it on its way!
@squirrelking, how exactly do you "close ranks" when the police are firing tear gas at you, and Russians are picking you off?
You've simply cast those who "retaliated" as villains, I've noticed you haven't said anything about Russian culpability either.
The Russians also attacked Welsh fans in Moscow a few years ago in their hotels.
England has historically had problems with hooliganism, but the main hooligans arent there, and it was basically a bunch of drunk england fans retaliating after being attacked. The vulgar songs are vulgar, the drinking is excessive, and people like your good self I daresay get a self-esteem boost from telling your friends how ghastly they anyone in an England shirt is.
My main point remains: the English fans were for the most part victims, and the media refuses to accept this as it goes against the politically correct narrative that white english men are basically the scum of the earth.
My main point remains: the English fans were for the most part victims, and the media refuses to accept this as it goes against the politically correct narrative that white english men are basically the scum of the earth.
A lot of reports in the media have stated that the English have been targeted. Which outlets are saying it's all the English causing the trouble?
The various analyses of news reports amongst the world's big media outlets show a fairly even split of blame-apportionment between Russian and English supporters. Even some Russian agencies were reporting that some of their fans had been a bit naughty. If I had some kind of obsession which requires me to blame everything on the PC brigade, I probably wouldn't bother checking what's being reported though.
[quote=mikey74 ]People seem to be blaming the French authorities and the poor security, but what saddens me the most is that people still go to these things with the sole intention of fighting: It is a festival of sport and you shouldn't need draconian policing.
No, but it's clear why it happens - because for those thugs wanting to go and have a fight with somebody foreign it's just about the best opportunity they get. They don't care that it's a festival of sport - just that it provides a ready source of opposition.
Badnewz - please quote where I have said anything like what you are accusing me of. Put up or shut up.
I'll make this easy for you - I never. I've actually categorically stated so as well before now.
You need to work on the victim complex because right now you are talking complete bollocks.
If I had some kind of obsession which requires me to blame everything on the PC brigade, I probably wouldn't bother checking what's being reported though.
Very well put, I have to say. I've already booked myself into therapy. Hopefully I will be reprogrammed to blame all the world's ills on the English.
@squirrilking, I see you are based in Scotland. Now there's a surprise.
Anyhow, its clear this chat is getting rather nasty, so I'm off, I'm sure if we we're chatting in the pub, this conversation wouldn't end up getting so bitter.
Have a good evening all.
@squirrilking, I see you are based in Scotland. Now there's a surprise.
FFS
FFS
Shut up, Frenchy 😀
*lobs table*
I don't like to back up squirrelking normally, and have not looked back, but am struggling to see what he has said that is so bad. Anyone worried that people in Scotland can take a high handed approach should watch footage of the aftermath of the recent Scottish Cup final.
I think football has an issue. This is not snobbery as I used to love football, but am disillusioned by its tribalism. If asked if I would allow my kids to attend a top flight football match I would have to say no.
*fires tear gas*
Here I was minding my own business, helping the local boulangerie rearrange their tables, and I get hit with tear gas!
It's an outrage!
Circulez !
check out the drama queen! 😆athgray - Member
I don't like to back up squirrelking normally, and have not looked back, but am struggling to see what he has said that is so bad. Anyone worried that people in Scotland can take a high handed approach should watch footage of the aftermath of the recent Scottish Cup final.
I think football has an issue. This is not snobbery as I used to love football, but am disillusioned by its tribalism. If asked if I would allow my kids to attend a top flight football match I would have to say no.
Domestic "british" fitba is as tame as it comes. Your weans you be fine.
I am sure that my children would be fine, however the scenes at the end of the Scottish Cup final from both sets of fans were a disgrace. I would rather my kids partook in a sport where this degree of tribalism is not evident. Although this level of violence does not spill out week on week, it is a symptom of a degree of low level menace that you feel at football stadiums on a weekly basis.
I got bored with football when it was banter to suggest oposition fans pissed on the carpet and shit in the bath and fingered their grandmother just for a laugh. Youse weans are welcome to it seosamh
of the end of "domestic" Scottish Cup final. Who would rather have their kids watch or partake in another sporting event?
a 1 in 36 year event. catch yourself on! 😆
One thing I have learned, is you can spot the Russian hooligans by their bumbags/manbags.
Roberts, who is in charge of Britain’s police operation in France, said: “England has had its problems with hooligans in the past. But the Russians are entirely different – they are like nothing we have seen before. They are highly organised and determined to carry out sustained violent attacks at a level of aggression I have not encountered in the past 10 years.“Our spotters in Marseille saw them putting in gum shields and putting on martial arts gloves and bandanas before attacking England fans in the port.
“We know some were carrying knives because one England fan was stabbed. They wore a kind of uniform – all in black t-shirts and clothing and most carried bum bags, possibly to conceal weapons.
Catching up on this. I went to Marseille in 2004 for the Marseille v Newcastle UEFA cup semi final. As you can imagine, there was a fair amount of alcohol fuelled 'boisterous' behaviour going on. However the only conflict I witnessed was pissed-up geordies arguing with surly barmen about being short-changed. I remember (vaguely) having a pigeon-french conversation with a local in a pub in the old port who bought me rounds of pastis. Anyway, the point is that it's not impossible for football fans to go abroad and drink lots without having a riot, so I'm puzzled as to why followers of the national team find it so difficult.
Followed England home and away for 8 years from 2005 and have now binned it off for a few years whilst saving for a house...
The away game in Moscow was the single most unsettling experience I've ever had in 24 years as a regular attender at club/country level. When the draw was made for this, me, and all the lads I come to know from around the country knew it was the perfect storm and not many were rubbing thier hands over the trip even if it was the Euro's. I know from following Facebook and Twitter its been worse than feared and now even some of the most hardened chaps I know are already talking of sacking 2018 off...
The Ukraine by contrast was an absolute joy of an experience both for the qualifier and the finals. Sad to see the places we travelled are now blown to pieces.
Tonights Football Supporters Federation statement...
[url= http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fsf-statement-attacks-on-english-fans-in-marseille-euro2016 ]FSF LINK[/url]
Wouldn't be surprised if there was further bother from the Russians Wednesday night as they play in Lille, where a lot of England/Wales fans will be staying the night before the game in Lens on Thursday. Hopefully the police might try a little harder next time.
As for proposed alcohol bans... The Russians don't drink, they just want to smash everyone to pieces.
Atgray,are you ignoring the fact that English fans still knock lumps out of each other in domestic games? What about the international game;what's your opinion on the behaviour of the Folks who follow the national side Atgray,or do they not fit your tired,made up,bleating? Stick to posting claims about "Scottish white van man" that also don't bear up to any scrutiny. At least you give us a laugh then,oh;and it is snobbery on your part.
Atgray,are you ignoring the fact that English fans still knock lumps out of each other in domestic games?
Really? I haven't seen violence at a football match since the 70's. Not a regular attended but I'm surprised by your statement.
DrJ - Member
Really? I haven't seen violence at a football match since the 70's. Not a regular attended but I'm surprised by your statement.
Still going on.
Have a google for Millwall v Barnsley at Wembley last month.
I good article from Ken Early in the Irish Times:
^ That article sums up how I have been trying to articulate my views of what has been happening over the last few days.
ATG - how very dare you tickle the thin skin of those who cannot see hypocrisy in front of them?
Hope Uefa have the balls to kick us and the Russians out again if our fans behave like that again.
There are certainly some scary looking Ruski's setting about the English....thats for sure. I was studying some of the footage last night and its men against boys, plus you could see they were sober, whilst our drunken lot hardly knew what was happening.
Surprised there has only been one critical injury and not a few deaths!
if our fans behave like that again
Yeah, how on earth did the English fans have the temerity to innocently watch a football match and have a group of Russians scale a fence and start about them.