Everyone belting along at 80 ish in mist, drizzle and general dampness, all a good two feet off each others bumper! Only the a38 in Derbyshire but still prompted me to say **** this, got off, and made my way on the country roads! Tools!!
ah but you forgot that it'll never happen to them!
yep whats the chances rugby club will get 100% of the blame for M5? 1 or 2 (or more) drivers too close to the person in front noooo not their fault.
I'm not saying smoke mist fog whatever wasn't a factor but that doesn't directly cause 30+ vehicles to collide and my experience of motorway driving says a little thing like visibility suddenly dropping to <50ft doesn't slow the majority down.
I'm not saying smoke mist fog whatever wasn't a factor but that doesn't directly cause 30+ vehicles to collide
Yeah - read one interview with a young lad who saw what was unfolding in front of him and pulled over into the central reservation only to then watch cars flash by him and crash into the back of the accident - too many people driving too quickly and not concentrating.
I agree with all of the above. Why wont people accept responsibility I drive 10's of thousands of miles a year and the amount of idiots overtaking whilst fiddling with their touch screen phones/drinking coffee and generally refusing to slow down regardless of other users and road conditions is staggering and is getting worse.
I can't believe the way people drive on motorways, drove the length of the country a few months back and where its busy the fast lane seems to be solid line of cars a few feet from each other, braking sharply and then accelerating sharply trying to get back to 80 whilst the inner lanes are much quieter and cruising at a constant speed. Even if the inner lanes are undertaking them they still feel the need to sit in the outer lane, idiots. 80mph limit will see everyone aiming for 90 and it will be hell.
Yup - I was tailgated by a bloke in a church-owned minibus (guess he wasn't feeling very Christian-minded that morning) a couple of weeks ago. It was early morning and the M1 was almost deserted yet he still felt the need to tailgate me, eventually overtaking and pulling into the inside lane (cutting up a van in the process) then realising he was in a (well signposted) exit junction filter lane and ended up cutting up the van again trying to get back onto the M1.
I just eased right off and let it play out as the van had to swerve across two lanes to avoid him.
Clown.
the fast lane
I think this is part of the problem with motorway driving. People don't seem to understand how they work. The fact that this has slipped into common usage says quite a lot IMO.
I think this is part of the problem with motorway driving. People don't seem to understand how they work. The fact that this has slipped into common usage says quite a lot IMO.
Yup - 'cos it isn't the fast lane anymore - it is usually slower than the slow lane and middle lane. 😉
if you're driving right behind someone, surely you're a little safer, as they won't decellerate much before you hit them, lessening the impact 😀
There's been a spate of accidents though - the big one on the M5, there was an 8 vehicle one the next day on the M6 up round Tebay somewhere.
Then yesterday a lorry fell off a bridge onto the M56 and there was also an 11-vehicle accident on the M6 around Staffordshire.
Early onset of darkness, crap weather, crap driving.
🙁
If someone is tailgating me then I need to make sure I have enough room in front of me that we can [i]both[/i] stop safely when he goes into the back of me - so I drive slower.
This seems to upset some people.
Brother in law works for Samworths.
They lost two drivers that night, and yet another is still in intensive care.
He said he was due to take one of the loads that night that was involved in the crash but they sent him north instead. A fully laden lorry would have had no chance of stopping at those speeds. To hear him sobbing in shock over the phone on saturday morning was a very sobering experience. He said that night that as the news came through as he was driving there were cars speeding past at 80 to 90 mph, he was travelling at under 60mph, but at those speeds and a heavy load if something were to happen he would not be able to aviod it.
[i]I was tailgated by a bloke in a church-owned minibus (guess he wasn't feeling very Christian-minded that morning)[/i]
There are as far as I'm concerned, two dead sure, 100% confident correct stereotypes for bad drivers in this world.
1. They have a fish on the back of the car.
or
2. They wear a hat when driving the car.
If someone is tailgating me then I need to make sure I have enough room in front of me that we can both stop safely - so I drive slower.This seems to upset some people.
Indeed - my general rule is "the closer you get, the slower I drive". It's amazing how some people don't seem to get the message.
samuri - Member
There are as far as I'm concerned, two dead sure, 100% confident correct stereotypes for bad drivers in this world.1. They have a fish on the back of the car.
Didn't take long to get into the usual STW anti-religion christian bashing!
Digusted of Trunbridge Wells
I have a fish on the back of my car!
[img] 
[/img]
there is an easy solution to this. Ban seat belts and fit all cars with a nice sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel. people would either drive carefully or die quickly.
Risk compensation is a part of why this is happening - people feel so safe they take more risks - so the answer is to make them feel less safe
Had to drive over the crash site on Monday morning. I was sickend by the terribly short piece of new tarmac that marked the site. So short! 37 vehicles... just terrible
I remember being in fog, doing 45-ish, this seemed to me the limit of visibility at quite intense concentration. I was passed by others doing about 80, but it's ok, they had their fog lights on.
I've see a truck wheel, a hank of rope and a pallet lying on the tarmac at night, avoided all of them. Perhaps a Learning Experience Weekend with obstructions like these every half-mile or so might change attitudes: I can't think of anything else that could. For the media seem to be blaming smoke now.
[i]Didn't take long to get into the usual STW anti-religion christian bashing!
Digusted of Trunbridge Wells [/i]
And yet you had no issue with my distrust of hat wearing drivers. Interesting.
Been my experience that the presence of breasts is often an indicator of poor driving; taxi drivers, lorry drivers, white van man, sales reps ...
the fast laneI think this is part of the problem with motorway driving. People don't seem to understand how they work. The fact that this has slipped into common usage says quite a lot IMO.
Yep, exactly! My dad worked in Germany for a couple of years, and the locals warned him about the police fines for staying out in the overtaking lanes on M.ways.
I guess the only way it's ever going to improve in the UK is to educate motorists better on motorway driving somehow (include it as part of a more comprehensive driving test?) - then introduce much heavier penalties for tailgaters etc. Personally, I'd like to see drivers re-tested every few years (including a proper eyetest!).
fit all cars with a nice sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel. people would either drive carefully or die quickly.
Don't forget the motorbikes 😈
motorway driving should be part of the test..
when I did my test I was offered and took a free post test motorway lesson with West Mercia Police.. very useful.
there is an easy solution to this. Ban seat belts and fit all cars with a nice sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel. people would either drive carefully or die quickly.
Alec Issigonis at his best!
+1 for TJ and the spike.
APF
...Personally, I'd like to see drivers re-tested every few years (including a proper eyetest!)...
probably a good idea, but...
i suspect the driving-cocks would be the ones to pass such tests, and then carry on as before (if not worse, now that their status as 'driving god' has been confirmed).
while my/your mum would probably fail*, as her reverse parking isn't what it was.
(*me too, i'm rubbish at reverse parking - it must be genetic)
😆 be quite 'interesting' to do an experiment where people all had to drive original Issigonis Minis. er..I guess there are all sorts of potential 'fatist' scenarios in that one though 😉Alec Issigonis at his best!
while my/your mum would probably fail, as her reverse parking isn't what it was*.(*i'm sure reverse-parking skills are genetic, mine's terrible...)
Not an issue for my parents, as they're no longer around - but I know what you mean. I think my eldest sis and my wife would both probably fail on reverse parking (just watching 'em reverse is WOAAHHH!!), and I think you're right aboyt the genetics thing, because my wifes dad is c**p at reversing - his car has so many retro-fit parking sensors, it's like a mobile radar station! I guess the threat of loosing their licence would force people to learn how to drive properly - I know it'd certainly improve my driving!
be quite 'interesting' to do an experiment where people all had to drive original Issigonis Minis. er..I guess there are all sorts of potential 'fatist' scenarios in that one though
He always said of the mini that it should be uncomfortable to drive so people did not nod off and had to concentrate on driving.
and yep they are bouncy and uncomfortable!
think actually it was Sir Stirling who first quoted the steering wheel spike idea and he def knows about crashing!
Thing is, poor parking rarely kills anyone, whereas driving 2 foot from the car in front clearly does.
I'm definitely all for semi-regular re-testing. Operators of other heavy machinery usually have to do some kind of retesting or refresher course so why not drivers?
I see there are currently quite a few [url= http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/search?q=driving ]epetitions about driving[/url] but the one about retests only has a few signatures (mainly because it is very poorly worded).
I went on a speed awareness course recently 34 in a 30 I'm a very bad man..
I was very surprised at the difference in impact speed in a motorway collision braking hard from 70mph and 90mph and for what appears to be a slight increase in speed you're taking a minor knock and making it a proper bad crash.
Also there was a video of a very similar crash to this one a few years back- in the fog, multiple cars and vans and then a big fire a horrible way to die.
People drive way to close and way too fast and all the time that cars are built that offer very high top speeds and apparent "safety" features it will always be this way.
What would make many people slow down is deterent penalties. Isn't that what they are supposed to be?
Instead of 60 quid how about 5 grand. Or the car. Yes it would cause hardship to a few but people would learn. Thats not as hard as a funeral because some f wit wouldn't slow down.
People drive way to close and way too fast and all the time that cars are built that offer very high top speeds and apparent "safety" features it will always be this way.
I can't really see why any UK road car should allow you to drive at more than 70 for any longer than a minute.
Doesn't solve the "60 in a 30" muppets, but it would at least ensure that folk stuck to the national speed limit and hopefully make them a bit more aware of their speed overall.
samuri - Member
"Didn't take long to get into the usual STW anti-religion christian bashing!Digusted of Trunbridge Wells "
And yet you had no issue with my distrust of hat wearing drivers. Interesting.
Actually I reported you for that.
(Currently wearing a Trilby)
Like Surfer above, I drive maybe 45000 miles a year, a lot of it for work. It's noticeable that since speeding detection has become better that the average speed on motorways seems to have fallen. 15 years ago, during the week you could easily get swept along at 90 in the fast lane with all the other "business" drivers and merc sprinters. Nowadays that speed is probably nearer 75.
However, the distance these guys keep still seems the same. i.e too short, totally irrespective of the conditions. I'm certainly capable of the odd driving error, but am hugely concerned when folk tailgate even in clear dry bright conditions and try very hard to make "personal" road space if the weather deteriorates. But, there's always some 'uckwit, happy to take your braking gap, or drive a foot off your bumper, no matter which lane you are in. No matter what the conditions around Taunton on the fateful night. Speed, distance , distraction, will all have played even a tiny part I'm sure. Sad all the same.
Didn't take long to get into the usual STW anti-religion christian bashing!
Apparently Christians are fair game. But nobody would dare make a similar comment about Muslims because they'd be lynched.
Anyhow, back on-topic.
Re. deterrents: every motoring offence (yes, even the piffling minor ones) should carry a [i]minimum[/i] penalty of having your car crushed to the size of a satsuma & being invoiced for it.
But nobody would dare make a similar comment about Muslims because they'd be lynched.
Do Muslims advertise their faith on the back of their cars? I've seen the Sikh crossed swords symbol occassionally, and the Darwin fish crops up every so often but most of the time it's the Icthus and more frequently these days the Nurburgring.
Sorry that was a bit OT.
Apparently Christians are fair game. But nobody would dare make a similar comment about Muslims because they'd be lynched.
🙄 dear oh dear.. it wasn't an anti-Christian statement, just an anti-folk-with-fish-symbols-on-the-back-of-their-car observation.
I'm not sure you'd be up in arms if he'd said the same about cars sporting Baby On Board signs or Chessington World of Adventure stickers.
Stop trying so hard to be persecuted.
I was being silly btw.
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/06/government-intensely-relaxed-traffic-deaths ]Grauniad comment piece[/url] about the reaction of politicians and the public to motoring deaths. It's really very interesting - 7 people died this weekend in Taunton and the road was open 48hrs after the accident and there have been no knee jerk changes to laws/policy. 4 died in the hatfield rail crash and there was disruption to the entire rail network for months afterwards to ensure similar accidents didn't happen.
about a thousand times more people die on our roads in year than other transport means, yet there isn't any where near the same regulation.
the M1 was almost deserted yet he still felt the need to tailgate me, eventually overtaking and pulling into the inside lane
sounds to me like you were hogging the middle lane for no reason...
my first impression from the pictures was that it was at the end of
a slip road, sorry could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise if if it was.
the list of bad drivers should also include those with those with the little extra mirrors attached their real wing mirrors.
It's noticeable that since speeding detection has become better that the average speed on motorways seems to have fallen.
...or is it simply down to pump prices increasing?
"I'm not sure you be up in arms if he'd said the same about cars sporting Baby On Board signs or Chessington World of Adventure stickers. "
A car with a "baby on board" sticker went through a red light on my commute this morning, as I was waiting to cross. Does thinking that owners of such messages are often selfish idiots make me stickerist?
Does *every* car driver you have ever seen with a sticker in the window display bad driving?
#Does *every* car driver you have ever seen with a sticker in the window display bad driving?
saw one the other day:
"How is my driving?
Tel 0800 - Like I give Sh1t!"
😆
about a thousand times more people die on our roads in year than other transport means, yet there isn't any where near the same regulation.
For some reason road deaths are an accepted risk.
If anything else caused as much death, injury & damage as motoring it'd be banned.
I heard the guy who opted out of it all on the radio, to be honest he was as lucky to have survived stopping in the central reservation and should definately be buying some lottery tickets with luck like his!
People drive like idiots end of.
All the talk of upgrading the A14 to make it 'safer', there's nothing wrong with the road, it's the tools who drive on it that are the problem.
sounds to me like you were hogging the middle lane for no reason...
Nope I was in the inside lane - why do you think I was in the middle lane?
I rode over the M6 just up from that lorry crash last night on the way back from work; the carriageway in both directions was totally dark and silent, it was very eerie indeed...
34 in a 30 I'm a very bad man
Stop lying. Police only do you at 35MPH, they won't issue a ticket for 34MPH
[s]Interesting[/s]depressing read pjt201
Sounds about rightBut the message from him [Hammond ]and other ministers is that road safety isn't a priority, it's OK to drive at high speed, and we should learn to live with death on the roads. The impression is reinforced by a £38m cut in the road safety budget; by a failure to renew the targets for cutting road deaths set by Labour; and by a dusty response to an official study which concluded that a reduction in the drink-drive limit, from 80mg per 100ml of blood to 50mg, could save 168 lives annually. As Robert Gifford of the parliamentary advisory council for transport safety observes, "road safety fell off the agenda". Ministers are nudging drivers in the wrong direction and, on a dark, autumnal Friday night in Somerset, that could just make a difference.
Funny as I have the ticket here. 34 in a 30 in Wokingham Berkshire. Obviously I'm going to believe you over my lying eyes.
Nope I was in the inside lane - why do you think I was in the middle lane?
because:
eventually overtaking and pulling into the inside lane
implies that there was a lane to your left.
I was done for 33 or 34, and the guy taking the awareness/getout course said that they had someone in who was done for 32 in a 30.
Best thing to do is run a satnav that has an ETA on it, shows how little gain you get from driving aggressively.
because:eventually overtaking and pulling into the inside lane
implies that there was a lane to your left.
Yes but it was a signposted and lane-marked feeder road for the exit to the Meadowhall Centre and I wasn't going off at that junction so the 'middle' lane was actually the 'inside' lane as the motorway at that point only has two lanes, the others being feeder lanes for the exit. I can see why my post might mislead though 🙂
EDIT - it is why the minibus driver then ended up trying to rejoin the M1 by driving across the hatchmarkings at the end of the exit and driving back infront of the van he had just overtaken.
I cannot believe what happened during my nice countryside pootle!! Had to make a reasonably quick stop on a little section of narrow single track road!! My ****ing flask fell of the seat and smashed! To top that id already broken the other one getting in the van this morning! 👿
As I'm a builder does this mean I need two days of work now! 🙄
Bloody country roads!!
I would like to see far more policing with the emphasis on unsafe driving rather than speeding. Presumably most police cars on motorways are equipped with cameras so a fixed penalty for driving too close to the car in front would be easy to prove.
I don't do a huge amount of motorway these days but from recent experience, would estimate that at busy times probably 90% of vehicles are driving too close to the one in front.
Part of the problem is that sitting in your car is now virtually as comfy as sitting in your armchair in the front room and there are too many potential distractions from satnav, phones, ICE. Even the tv isn't missing in some vehicles.
Re prosecutions for exceeding 30 in a 30.
http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=24484&t=4
ACPO Guidance now revised and it's up to local forces when they prosecute. Avon and Somerset have recently decided they are going to prosecute everyone doing over 30 in a 30 but offer the option of the course to everyone doing up to 39.
I would like to see far more policing with the emphasis on unsafe driving rather than speeding.
+1
I got pulled a little while ago on the M6 for "having no insurance". Obviously I *did* have insurance, it was some sort of error in their ANPR database but it was all sorted with a friendly roadside chat. The police were on some sort of crackdown mission that day though, there were loads of marked and unmarked cars around.
If only there were the resources and the political will for that to happen on every motorway, every day.
I wonder the Gov are still considering raising the limit to 80mph?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15116064
It's not like there are more important things to sort out first...
Iknow, let's increase the motorway speed limit by 10 mph
No one involved in promoting Road Safety would want to try to capitalise on this incident but if it does make people think again about their driving then at least something would have come out of it.
Thousands are killed and seriously injured every year yet it takes an incident like this to bring things into focus.
AnalogueAndy - Member
Thousands are killed and seriously injured every year yet it takes an incident like this to bring things into focus.
Andy, read my [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/06/government-intensely-relaxed-traffic-deaths ]link[/url] above, incidents like this don't bring things into focus. If there was a train crash that killed 7 people large scale changes would be bought in. As it is, there were almost 2000 people killed on Britain's roads last year and the government have cut road safety budgets and removed targets to decrease the number of deaths on our roads. As it is, the m5 is open again 48hrs after the accident and nothing has changed.
Police only do you at 35MPH, they won't issue a ticket for 34MPH
Allow me to take that back.
APCO guidelines say that 35MPH is when tickets should be issued, but it's up to the individual to make the final judgement.
the list of bad drivers should also include those with those with the little extra mirrors attached their real wing mirrors.
As my standard wing mirror doesn't have a wide angle section like a more modern car or an hgv, I have stuck one of these on, I can now see more, which is obviously a bad thing?
I would like to see far more policing with the emphasis on unsafe driving rather than speeding.
I think thats a good idea, but compared to a speeding offence, its a harder one to police. How do you quantify unsafe driving? Such things come down to perceptions and opinions, where as speeding is a case of you were doing X in a Y. no if's no buts.
I think speeding fines could be better if they were proportional to the speed a driver was clocked at.
For example, the fine becomes the product of:
[i]
fine = mph over the limit * the speed limit of the zone you were in ( or a ratio of it ) [/i]
that way, higher speeds = higher fines.
crazy-legs - MemberI would like to see far more policing with the emphasis on unsafe driving rather than speeding.
+1
I got pulled a little while ago on the M6 for "having no insurance". Obviously I *did* have insurance, it was some sort of error in their ANPR database but it was all sorted with a friendly roadside chat. The police were on some sort of crackdown mission that day though, there were loads of marked and unmarked cars around.If only there were the resources and the political will for that to happen on every motorway, every day.
I couldn't agree more. A good friend of mine in Canada who served with the RCMP for years as an accident reconstructionist could not believe my descriptions of motorway policing here. Cameras are not, and can never be, a replacement for real police officers out there monitoring driving as well as speed.
On top of which, such policing would also mean catching more real criminals as they spot them on the move.
If only governments and police forces would listen to me.
Some Police forces do listen, the issue is resources, if you see the different directions that traffic police get pulled in that takes them away from, yes, road policing.
[b]TJ[/b] only a day or so ago you were railing at people who made ex cathedra assertions for which they were unwilling to supply evidence...
there is an easy solution to this. Ban seat belts and fit all cars with a nice sharp spike in the middle of the steering wheel. people would either drive carefully or die quickly.Risk compensation is a part of why this is happening - people feel so safe they take more risks - so the answer is to make them feel less safe
sad to see this ancient Clarkson-like cliche trotted out. Just think about it for a minute or two...
Look at the design of American Cars of the mid 1950s and you will see that is pretty well exactly what they did have. And then look at the death rates then in those cars, and then look at the work of Ralph Nader et al. and then you can try and prove that seat belts and/or airbags have led to an increase or even a stable risk of death-per-road-user mile, rather than being part of a safety movement which has led to a huge fall in deaths... and breathe...
Risk compensation behavior changes can occur, but in this field the overall net safety effect is still massively positive.
To declare an interest, my life was saved 18 months ago by an airbag when hit head-on by someone who had fallen asleep.
The issue isn't speed per se, its inappropriate speed.
Trouble is there is no way of enforcing inappropriate speed with just speed camera's. More police on the roads is what's needed but we are unlikely to get them anytime soon
Staatsbrother do you really think I was making that as s serious suggestion? However it is proven that safer cars lead to more risk taking by car drivers. Drivers of cars with ABS go faster in the rain and leave less gaps for example. The car drivers kill more innocents as a result of this behaviour - they are safer but others around them are not.
The real answer of course is to test drivers far more thoroughly, retest regularly, make them pay the full costs of driving and enforce driving law much more harshly. Lets see jail terms for drink driving and for dangerous driving. Lets see more bans for speeding.
To declare an interest, [b]my life was saved 18 months ago by an airbag[/b] when hit head-on by someone who had fallen asleep.
TJ will be along shortly to ask as to why you think that... 🙄
and the Edinburgh defense is wheeled out...
And how many cars do [i]not[/i] have ABS now?
I will be hitting the M3 in around 40 minutes time and I guarantee that I will see people driving too fast, too close together with very poor lane discipline and plenty of people on the phone etc.
I may well get to see an accident which on average occurs at least once a week on my stretch between Bracknell and the M25. Until people have a bad crash they just won't listen.
Stoatsbrother get a grip man. If you really think that I was being serious then you really have lost the plot. Yo are accusing me of lying with that offensive canard "the edinburgh defense"
its a flippant way of making a serious point - risk compensation occurs and is one of the reasons that people follow too close.
I would like to see far more policing with the emphasis on unsafe driving rather than speeding
+1
As my standard wing mirror doesn't have a wide angle section like a more modern car or an hgv, I have stuck one of these on, I can now see more, which is obviously a bad thing?
possibly not but imho there does seem to be a correlation - just like passats and middle lane hoggers (had to get that dig in there for molgrips benefit:-))
maybe it is something to do with the driver not being comfortable enough to actually look into his blind spot to look for something - my mirror has one of these enhanced edges but I will still glance round to check.
A bit like a cyclist not being confident/competant enough to glance round.
[b]TJ[/b]
ah ha...
so how exactly are we able to tell which things you are saying are seriously meant, and which ones are meant to be humorous ? Not even a 😉 to tell us, let alone anything funny in your text...
Trouble is - that tired old cliche you trotted out - I mean - [url= http://tinyurl.com/burlpug ]even here is quite common[/url] - seems to have become a meme, something trotted out all over the interweb as substitute for thought.I've seen it raised repeatedly on other forums.
You do seem to be over-reacting to being challenged here. No one said you were lying - just implied you [i]might[/i] be backtracking when your statement was challenged.
I'd get those anger issues dealt with... xxx