[Closed] How can we get rid of this government?

Unfortunately they are a reflection of a large percentage of voters.

What legal means do we have beyond protest?

Very few people actually get a say at the polls.
In my adult life I have lived in three constituencies, and voted in every general election for 4 different parties. Including the blue one.
Not once have I voted for the winning MP.

Why does legality bother you? The precedent has been set.

Engage and persuade people to get off their backsides and vote instead of whinging and bitching on vox pops forums

A good dose of the Poll Tax spirit might have some small effect, but (bizarrely given the absolute state of things right now) we don't have enough people feeling disenfranchised and angry enough to take to the streets or even to just be openly defiant.

I am with you on it all, I just don’t understand this bit -
“I realise we have a number of threads which were initially set up in a bemused haze that their featured foci could potentially make high office.”

Are there any Conservative Party voters on here?

It's one of those things where the solution is to not get in the mess to begin with.

But unfortunately there's too many racist bigoted moronic fhoookwhits in this country who are allowed to vote and voted Con (how apt an abbreviation).

Con (how apt an abbreviation).

Totally. Without (I imagine) a hint of irony or self-awareness, the Conservative Club in our nearest town has a big sign outside that proudly rebrands the establishment as "The Cons".

Unfortunately it will have to get a WHOLE lot worse before it gets better I think. The state of the populace is a mixture of people with their head buried in the sand, people who think 'theyre all as bad as each other', people who don't vote because they don't think they have any real power anymore, people living in a cloud of reality TV, the internet, and other things that blur the reality of life, and a larger than you think group of people who are really very well off and the state of the country doesn't have any true impact on them (or so they think).

Don't get me wrong there's a huge amount of people like us who believe real change is needed and are in despair about how things are, but the voting system is frankly rigged to be honest.

Today struck me just how bad things have got in this country. I attended a primary school to do a condition survey and the place was falling apart. Literally had holes in the roof where water runs through, teaching spaces that haven't changed since I was a child at school 20 years ago, caretaker in despair at the state it's been allowed to get to due to lack of funding provided. I also did a couple of social housing surveys and they were in a worse state than some photos I've seen of third world nations. I'm sat at home now watching a police TV show where there are so few police officers in the station that they can't respond to some emergencies. Then the news at 10 flashes up and it's about our prime minister being fined for a criminal offence and talking about how we'll ship refugees off to Rwanda.

I really, really do despair.

Move to Scotland. I've always been Pro union but I now just view that as staying aligned with populist tory voters. I'm being pushed towards voting yes in a referendum and I suspect there are lots like me, probably / possibly more than is needed.

I just don’t understand this bit –

The 'Boris!! Johnson!!' thread was started when he was an amusing candidate.

Then he got in.

@pook I didn’t/don’t understand the bit I quoted!
I realise we have a number of threads which were initially set up in a bemused haze that their featured foci could potentially make high office.
I genuinely do not understand this! Please explain for me.

Unfortunately they are a reflection of a large percentage of voters.

The Tories themselves don't reflect that many voters. Most voters would not want their government to act like that. The fact they are in government though reflects how dim and thoughtless most voters are, because they can be duped so easily by people with no morals who are prepared to lie through their teeth.

People on the whole aren't rational, they are a mob (if they care at all) and this means they are very easily led by people who will say absolutely anything. Unfortunately, the worse a politician is, the more likely they are to say anything.

What legal means do we have beyond protest?

Give it time and that will be illegal too 🤔

Why does legality bother you? The precedent has been set.

Careful now, you might get reported to the Thought Police.

Have a listen to this. https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/how-to-change-the-world/

We need a critical mass of critical, engaged and active people. How many have we got here, I wonder?

I think @binners nailed it in another thread.. 52% of British people are complete arseholes. So we're pretty much knackered.

Indeed.

I hate to break this to you, but…

Unfortunately the majority of people - 52% at the last official count - on this nasty, spiteful, backward-gazing deluded backwater are absolutely *ing horrible, and will elect people who reflect that

You’ve had 6 years to adapt to the new reality and it’s only got worse since then

We are governed by this cabal of utter *s because that’s what a majority in this country see when they look in the mirror in the morning. A total **** staring back at them.

Pfft... bunch of show flakes all of you.

Next you'll be saying it was right that this chair of the London Conservative Association resigned after this piffling photo of him was dredged up.

Mind you, he doesn't even remember wearing it he says, which is entirely believable as its pretty much standard attire when going out for a meal or whatever.

Anyway, resigning is sooooo 2016 darling and went completely out of fashion after Cameron. This guy deserves a promotion instead, surely? Perhaps a well paid job in, oh, I don't know, Rwanda?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61112219

What legal means do we have beyond protest

the list of legal means doesn’t include protest

Merak
Free Member
Are there any Conservative Party voters on here

The majority, I would imagine.

I'd like to think they don't mention it because of shame, but I reckon they're too busy not giving one single toss about anyone but themselves.

Unfortunately they are a reflection of a large percentage of voters.

Yep. If there was an election tomorrow my MP (Tory Desmond Swayne) would get in with the same 60% he has got for the last 20 years. He even won with 50% with Labour getting 14% in 1997!
Doesn't matter how much shit the Tory party gets up to some people will have it no other way as they don't want those lefties in taking all their money, giving it to poor people etc,.

I just don’t understand this bit –

What i mean is that the various threads started regarding people like Boris Johnson were originally set up as a laugh, but then they got in and the joke instantly wasn't funny. Happened with Trump too. And Liz Truss.

Its easy to come on here and rant and moan but that won't change anything. You need two things to happen: more people voting for other parties and less people voting Tory. Get out there and convince people. If you have elderly Tory relatives convince them to change, if you know apathetic non voters convince them to vote.

Tory voters, and brexit voters are a minority. Its just our system that makes it happen and our media that fuels it. It won't need a massive shift for things to change.

You do realise you can't convince a lot of people don't you? I am surrounded by Tory voters (in my village and at work). I live in a very Tory area.

They simply won't have it that any party but the Tory party is best for them. Note the "for them" as when you are starting from a position of being well off and voting based on what is best for you then Tories do a good job for you

I'm struggling with it all too.

Mrs_oab and I have some family who voted for brexshit, some have voted Conservative all thier life, others who don't vote at all. Interestingly, most of them have or do read the Daily Mail. This then is the 52% - and they are lovely people.

But fundamentally, even if 'my' 52% changed thier minds and vote, the electoral system is broken and unfair.

Beyond that, the professional standards and processes that are supposed to hold our politicians to a standard of behaviour are ineffective - particularly when people choose to have no integrity beyond thier own gain.

I honestly don't know what the catalyst for change might be. Perhaps the living standards squeeze might be enough to start it. Perhaps.

What legal means do we have beyond protest?

Is that still legal?

It needs street protests highlighting the lies and failings to get some momentum behind the message.

The problem is any such protests will be hijacked by the extreme ends, rightly or wrongly, and reinforce the government's anti protest rhetoric.

It also needs the opposition parties to stop fighting each other and unite in an anti-Tory coalition, with electoral reform a key policy.

Vote, write to your mp and give these people money.
https://goodlawproject.org/
My money helped them to give Dumbojo a criminal record.

We'd probably need to do something about the pro-tory media outlets who for many years have done a great job of convincing us there is no viable alternative. Look at how hard they went for Corbyn as evidence of just how viable the opposition actually were and how much they were shitting themselves about it.

Unfortunately we can’t get rid of them.

There’s a hard core of 30-35% of tribally committed Tory zealots, largely consisting of racist pensioners, whipped up by a far right press, and that’s enough to keep them in power.

Not many options. Write to your MP a lot, particularly if they are a Conservative.
When the inflation costs hit home I think we might start to see more protesting.

There are still people who think Johnson is doing a good job. The idea that the Conservatives are their team so they must support them. I don't get it.

FWIW they are losing their core vote. My MiL is a traditional conservative voter. Member of the party, honorary life member of the Carlton Club. She voted lib dem as she can't stand Boris. Many other like her. The rest of their vote cam on the back of Brexit. When those people realise they've been shafted by mismanagement of covid, law breaking, corruption and theft of public finances they will turn.

In my mind, the Tory Party aren't the problem, the problem lies with the voters.

I've watched the Tory Party morph into the BNP over the last decade as they've learned that the voting population sees the world through the prism of division, spite, greed and hatred. A worldview made more toxic by the universal return of Nationalism.
The Tories are just giving the public what they want.

I've watched the Labour Party lose 2 elections where they've campaigned on a platform to change people's lives for the better and they've been thoroughly rejected by the very people they're trying to help.

We're stuck with them because of the people around us.

Where’s Hugo Weaving when you need him?

I think we need also to push the idea that FPTP gives us a minority government, which benefits a minority of the electorate.

Yes, I know we have a terrible fear that PR will result in coalition governments putting through compromise policies in the interests of the majority and it will never catch on.

Go on forums and rant how much you despise the Tories, voters in general, and this country.

If that doesn't do it I'm not sure what will.

You might feel better afterwards though.

Or you might get some ideas to coalesce behind. Or against.

the voting population sees the world through the prism of division, spite, greed and hatred

Non-tory voters on this thread are ticking 3/4 of them.

We need a winning team to challenge the Rot.
Can you see anyone on the horizon?
We need societal change ,and to reverse the 'greed is good and I'm alright Jack' mentality.
I wonder who set that in play?
We need realistic,well planned and long term investment (in business and our citizens) rather than all the 'get rich quick with your mates' scams.
How can we make this happen?
I have less than half an idea how,but chipping away in your local community is a good place to start,and can be very rewarding,so that's what I am doing.

We have to give them a strong message in the upcoming local elections.
We have to convince the core Tory voter that they're wrong.
We have to keep the media stories about the corruption and lying in the main news.
We have to keep writing to our MPs about how disgusted we are about all of the rule breaking and inhumane policies.

Doubt any of it will work though so we'll just have to blow them all up, Guy Fawkes had the right idea.

As has been alluded to, joining, funding and campaigning for one of the alternatives is a good start.

It's a bit naive to think voting for a different party will make a substantial difference. Starmer is offering 'get a grip' and Reeves is into austerity. Having said that, I did read somewhere that disillusioned Red Wall voters would now prefer Corbyn to Starmer. Spreading class consciousness through workplace and community organisation can lead to effective action for change, it ain't going to come from bloated politicians bought off by whoever and living comfortably on exes. Look at how Labour have responded to the Assange affair and the Coventry binmen.
Historically more strikes occur under Labour governments and that's one of the few reasons for voting for Starmer. In the council elections I shall vote Green (they've got a slight majority around here) as a protest vote.

The cost of living crisis will sway some people I expect. Combine that with the various scandals we've already had and the inevitable ones to come over the next three years and they may have dug their own graves. There are parallels with the financial crisis and expenses scandal which got labour out. Plus general fatigue, by the next ge we'll have had 14 long years of the nasty party.

One can only hope. If they don't get booted out at the next one I don't know what it would take.