germans getting absolutely blisteringly angry at this joke is funny every single time
You would have thought they would have some appreciation for how infantile the English-speaking world is by now.
And retired NHS workers, doctors and nurses last year…If only there some some way to allow people from other countries to come to work and live in the UK.
Yeah I forgot my Mrs got one ages ago.
People from other countries still can & do come here to work, India, Thailand, Philippines, to name a few.
When my Mrs was in hospital for 6 weeks there were more nurses from Kerala than the EU.
Surely it's only a matter of weeks before autonomous driving legislation is rushed through parliament and Elon Musk gets to beta test his software on HGV's carrying petrol and other chemicals across the country?
I believe they’re already testing autonomous HGVs in the UK
What other industry expects a 12 to 15 hour day to be the norm?
Dunno about the others suggested but I was up at 5 this morning to get to a 12 hour shift. I'm 2 weeks into a 6 week block of 7 days a week, before that was a 5 day week for a break but the days off were Thursday and saturday, and before that 11 days straight. Then a month of normal ish work and before that some "time off" to panic over my bank ballance.
I've got a day off scheduled for the 1st Wednesday in November.
Yours sincerely,
The camera guy from the airy fairy world of TV production.
I wouldn't suggest anyone puts up and shuts up if they don't enjoy it. But I'd object to the idea that it's an exceptionally antisocial industry.
I believe they’re already testing autonomous HGVs in the UK
By allowing driver to fall asleep at the wheel?
Yours sincerely,
The camera guy from the airy fairy world of TV production.
The problem for the film and tv industry is many of the dangers of long hours occur on the way to and fro from work, when you're not on the production's clock. I worked on a period drama a few years back with the unofficial working title of 'Death on the Motorway' because the hours worked and distances travelled before and after were completely out of control. Often for me its only when we have HGV drivers on the job - such as Genny Ops- that theres pressure on the production to keep the length of the working day under some sort of control.
What other industry expects a 12 to 15 hour day to be the norm?
Both my sons do 12 hour shifts
Both they and both parents have done things like split shifts at hotels - often in at 6am, finish at 10am, back in at 3/4pm to finish at midnight.
My old outdoor centre I would weekly do a 7am-11pm day, on expedition or similar it would basically be 48hr-week working and 'on call' overnight.
Young doctors.
Even one of my staff today left the house at 6am, got to worksite at 12pm, worked all afternoon and will fly back in the morning. (Barra!)
I believe they’re already testing autonomous HGVs in the UK
Meanwhile, when I was on a train a couple of weeks ago, it terminated after one stop due to a lack of drivers.
A train. Y'know, those things on rails.
Good luck with your driverless trucks, surely must be due any day now.
scud
Full Member
I did my HGV years ago in Army, so as ex-HGV and ex-army i am expecting a recall to ask me to drive lorries monday to friday, do the bins on a saturday and then maybe put some fires in a 60’s Green Goddess if i have some spare time…
I've seen you ride a bike. Driving a Green Godess would scare me sh!tless!!
I understand the situation may be about to get a whole lot worse as, from today, EU drivers will only be allowed into the UK with a valid passport. Many of the drivers from the Schengen countries have, up until today, been able to enter the country on a ID card. From the info I have been listening to it seems that many of these drivers do not even have a passport. So expect even more pressure on the haulage industry over coming months.
Really?!? No-one thought that putting an extra hurdle for European drivers to jump over in the way just at the time we're trying to encourage a few more over might be a bad idea?
What is the big game plan then? Because there is no way in hell this can be anything other than deliberate. Even the completely incompetent don't get things this wrong all of the time.
Germans on pre 1999 licences are registered with hgv entitlement on DVLA data base and have been sent letters:
One 41-year-old German man, who, along with his wife, received a copy of the letter at their London home on Friday morning, told the Independent: “We were quite surprised. I’m sure pay and conditions for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to carry on in my role at an investment bank.
“My wife has never driven anything larger than a Volvo, so she is also intending to decline the exciting opportunity.”
My brother keeps being offered jobs (he has class 1) … but who would do his job if he took a driving job? We can keep shuffling people around for a few years ‘till the public come to accept that we need workers to replace those we’ve told to…
And they say Germans have no sense of humour 😀
you're not selling the UK as a place to live and work 🙂
Why would EU drivers come back/over here to work when Europe are short of 400,000 drivers?
esselgruntfuttock
Free MemberWhy would EU drivers come back/over here to work when Europe are short of 400,000 drivers?
The EU had a driver shortage before when EU drivers were working here, it's not really much different now except that we've chosen to make ours far worse for lolz.
There's little reason for EU drivers to come here now, and plenty of reasons not to- we literally just made it harder- but this isn't really much of a factor.
unulales
Free Member
It would be nice to think that the benefit to come out of this crisis is that it forces UK employers to invest in employing local people instead of expecting qualified/trained cheap foreign workers.
That would improve wages and conditions if you take the pool of cheap labour away.Of course it would initially mean higher prices for consumers having to cover wage increases, but soon this would result in less profits for employers as other less greedy companies undercut them … market forces would prevail.
You have a lot not confidence then me in that happening.
Ah, “the chosen one” is here to stay. That’s great. Expect plenty of “Brexit is great” repeats.
We can keep shuffling people around for a few years ‘till the public come to accept that we need workers to replace those we’ve told to…
There are currently 2.2 million people in the UK claiming unemployment benefit - Costing £1.5bn of tax payers money that could be better spent on things like the NHS for example if we could get these people back into work.....there is no need for us to be short of staffing our own domestic jobs if they were not undercut by cheap labour making it more lucrative to claim benefits rather than work...Of course paying people a fair price for the jobs they do wether it be nurses or HGV drivers means we all have to pay a bit more for the products and services we buy....but if we're really serious about paying those on the lowest wages a higher and 'fair' living wage rather than talking a good game, then we all have to pay a bit more for our products and services. People talk a great game about doing more for the least well off, but short of suggesting 'Those with the broadest shoulders' to pay more in tax they're fresh out of ideas. God forbid it is suggested getting those on benefits off benefits - which would benefit them more than anyone. Far easier to bring in the cheap Bulgarians to do the jobs for a pittance. Doesn't do any good for our own economy or the Bulgarian economy.
Sorry to cross post but EU drivers will be allowed to stay till end of February now.
Wonder if that February date will lapse, then lapse again?...
Brexit is very good at that after all. Delay, delay, postpone, delay.
The good thing about Baroness Vere of Norbiton is that she really is in touch with the working classes.
2.2 million people in the UK claiming unemployment benefit
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Do you mean JSA? If so, it’s 0.3 million. And are they where the jobs are? Are they looking to do the jobs you have in mind for them and starting from scratch, rather than getting back into another job akin to the previous job they were doing?
Even in “soft” areas like software development, accountancy or law it won’t be that unusual to find people doing 12+ hr days, .
True but at least in the area of software development I work in its a occasional thing (games dev for example tends to go a lot more for crunch time) but the thing is I can look back at my commits and when they were done and one thing stands out.
After about 8 hours or so the quality drops dramatically and once I hit twelve or so unless I am in mostly just monitoring the quality absolutely sucks and if I look at other peoples commits and their timezones it is pretty consistently poor once it hits that time as it might sort of fix the immediate issue but misses a bunch more.
Whilst some rare people might be able to keep up on minimal sleep for a sustained period its not what we have evolved to do. Whilst sleep is still somewhat of a mystery as to its purpose that it is essential when we go way back on the evolutionary tree gives a hint its kinda useful.
I might be being selfish here but if someone is in charge of a 40 ton lorry on the same road as me, especially if it is loaded with 40 tons of fuel, I would like them to be semi awake.
There are currently 2.2 million people in the UK claiming unemployment benefit – Costing £1.5bn of tax payers money that could be better spent on things like the NHS
You should put that on a bus
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
or
Baroness Vere of Nobriton
wobbliscott
Full Member
We can keep shuffling people around for a few years ‘till the public come to accept that we need workers to replace those we’ve told to…There are currently 2.2 million people in the UK claiming unemployment benefit – Costing £1.5bn of tax payers money that could be better spent on things like the NHS for example if we could get these people back into work…..there is no need for us to be short of staffing our own domestic jobs if they were not undercut by cheap labour making it more lucrative to claim benefits rather than work…Of course paying people a fair price for the jobs they do wether it be nurses or HGV drivers means we all have to pay a bit more for the products and services we buy….but if we’re really serious about paying those on the lowest wages a higher and ‘fair’ living wage rather than talking a good game, then we all have to pay a bit more for our products and services. People talk a great game about doing more for the least well off, but short of suggesting ‘Those with the broadest shoulders’ to pay more in tax they’re fresh out of ideas. God forbid it is suggested getting those on benefits off benefits – which would benefit them more than anyone. Far easier to bring in the cheap Bulgarians to do the jobs for a pittance. Doesn’t do any good for our own economy or the Bulgarian economy
As we have seen over the last few years a certain section of society find it more convenient to blame others (migrants, Brexit, government, old people) than to take some responsibility themselves and pay a little more towards supporting those doing essential jobs for low pay and poor conditions.
In our contemporary society, where it's easier to buy a new shirt than sew on a new button; where it's easier to import cheap labour than train a domestic workforce. I am hopeful that society as a whole can see the quick fix option is not a solid foundation.
Kelvin - why do you feel a need to Troll?
I can see you are unable to provide logical counter views or opinions - therefore identifying yourself as irrelevant - so please explain what benefit Trolling gives you?
You are funny “chosen one”.
Currently listening to this, you’ll probably agree with lots of it:
02/10/21 - Farming Today This Week: The Food Supply Chain Crisis
We have manufactured a situation where the pandemic and cutting out workers have occurred at the same time. I can’t take responsibility for that, no matter how much I pay for food and goods. Only the government can. Our supply chains will have to be transformed to deal with “our” choice to keep people out, and realistically that probably means more food and goods being produced abroad. A lack of workers will eventually just mean the sectors hit will contract and we will lose out to other countries, we simply won’t have as many people working here as we could have had. A reduced workforce and a diminished UK.
What is it about my singletrackworld username that bothers you so much? maybe you should reflect on this and it may help you address your motivation for Trolling complete strangers on the internet.
So you only believe in democracy when your winning?
Well, out of a total electorate of 46,500,001, 16,141,241 voted remain, 17,410,742 voted leave, a turnout of 72.2%. I’m not entirely sure the majority of the UK’s eligible population voted to leave, but even given those who did vote, the actual difference was marginal.
What is it about my singletrackworld username that bothers you so much? maybe you should reflect on this and it may help you address your motivation for Trolling complete strangers on the internet.
To me it seems clear that Kelvin feels that it is his role to keep the stw echo chamber squeaky clean and challenge any political variants of concern.
I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.
He often initially engages in half sensible debate but when he runs of things to say, or simply can't provide a convincing counterargument, will resort to purile schoolyard taunting, as you have discovered.
It is a quite effective tactic, if the aim is to stifle political views which don't conform to the stw consensus. I certainly can't be arsed debating politics at that infantile level. So ultimately he wins.
Trolling complete strangers on the internet.
You might not be of course, but rather than a "complete stranger" you display many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user. It's not unsurprising to me that a long-term user might be pulling at a thread.
I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.
He isn't, unless he's been appointed in the last few months. Your long assumption is incorrect I'm afraid.
It is a quite effective tactic, if the aim is to stifle political views which don’t conform to the stw consensus.
I get accused of "far right" views and I occasionally vote green. Consensus on the politics threads is definitely left of centre/ remain/ everyone who votes conservative is a neo racist xenophobic bigot etc
I certainly can’t be arsed debating politics at that infantile level.
And yet, here you are, following him over from the Kier Starmer thread, to continue your little campaign against him.
Cougar
Full Member
Trolling complete strangers on the internet.You might not be of course, but rather than a “complete stranger” you display many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user. It’s not unsurprising to me that a long-term user might be pulling at a thread.
I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.
He isn’t, unless he’s been appointed in the last few months. Your long assumption is incorrect I’m afraid.
Of course I could be absolutely anyone if your imagination was allowed to run away with yourself.
Can you identify the many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user please? that comment seems to me like an excuse for Kelvins continued Trolling of myself.
Thank you @ernielynch - I am not intentionally political in my replies; although may express opinions that may be taken as one way or the other.
I would be hopeful that singletrackworld would ensure their mods on this site were not Trolls as Kelvin continually demonstrates himself to be; that he spends a lot of time on singletrackworld forum is probably typical of Troll behaviour too.
And yet, here you are, following him over from the Kier Starmer thread, to continue your little campaign against him.
That was such a bizarre claim Martin that I had to double-check the Keir Starmer thread.
And no, it's been a long time since I've responded to a comment by Kelvin. He responded to one of my comments, I ignored his.
It's in your imagination I'm afraid.
To bring things back on track a bit.
This week is the first week where the agency has drawn a blank for any HGV work for me. All the companies that want a Class 2 driver either want extra qualifications or are refusing to take someone with less than a year's experience. I know that three of the companies are just not sending the deliveries out instead this week! So a recent pass Class 2 driver (me) is having to spend the week driving vans for under £10/hr, Brexit may have cut off the supply of European drivers but the companies aren't helping themselves either.
Don't worry, I still hold Boris responsible for the current chaos but something has to be seriously wrong when the government are sending out begging letters to all HGV license holders but if one tries to get work they're essentially told they're not wanted.
or are refusing to take someone with less than a year’s experience
This is an insurance thing. HGV fleet insurance is horrically expensive and the vast majority of ins co's won't offer policies to firms that use newly qualified drivers. It's a nightmare because without driving you can't get the experience etc. But the ins co's have been well and truly hammered by HGV claims and don't want a new driver behind the wheel of a vehicle they are insuring.
Also, it is short-sighted as you could get your licence, not drive for a year and then go straight in and you'd be fine as they only check the licence issue date.
Best of luck with it @reluctantjumper.
Is there an option available to look at another industry?
All the news of job vacancies etc, could this provide something in a different area than what you been looking?
My concern with HGV jobs now is that within a year or so there will be an oversupply of drivers and wages and conditions will return to normal.
Presumably there will be a new normal, otherwise if the old normal for wages and conditions return so will the old problems/shortages.
I've got no other real qualifications so it's either HGV work or minimum wage stuff sadly. I did my Class 2 to get me above the van driving jobs where there is so much competition and hence piss poor wages and conditions!
Also, it is short-sighted as you could get your licence, not drive for a year and then go straight in and you’d be fine as they only check the licence issue date.
My brother-in-law's dad has just 'returned' to HGV after a 12 year break. What that means is he passed his test 12 years ago but never found any work so hasn't driven anything larger than a pickup since then. Got a job the day after completing his DCPC training despite no experience whatsoever. He asked about a job for me but they won't touch anyone with less than 2 years since passing. He's already bumped two trucks in the 7 weeks he's been there!
ernielynch
Free Member
Presumably there will be a new normal, otherwise if the old normal for wages and conditions return so will the old problems/shortages
It would be nice to think HGV drivers will now be able to turn the industry around, and get paid a wage that recognises the challenges the job requires; since July I have been required to drive 2hours each way to Sheffield ... I am exhausted the remainder of the week. I could never do 9 hours driving every day.
Good luck to the HGV drivers. Maybe it will empower the care workers facing similar challenges.
Well, out of a total electorate of 46,500,001, 16,141,241 voted remain, 17,410,742 voted leave, a turnout of 72.2%. I’m not entirely sure the majority of the UK’s eligible population voted to leave, but even given those who did vote, the actual difference was marginal.
Using those numbers only 37.4% of people actually wanted to stay🤷♂️
since July I have been required to drive 2hours each way to Sheffield … I am exhausted the remainder of the week. I could never do 9 hours driving every day
You'd be surprised how you adapt to long hours behind the wheel. Not HGV but I spend most of my working day driving. At first it was very tiring but soon got a lot easier.
I think someone explained that, as you put the hours in, more of the tasks move to the subconscious.
Wouldn't want to drive an HGV though personally.
Also it's amazing to me how it isn't seen as a very skilled job being as many car drivers on the road seem out of depth driving those and can barely reverse into a supermarket space.
Reluctantjumper, I’m afraid the government have devalued class2 by allowing it to be skipped on the way to class1. You absolutely have to find a route to class1 ASAP now. My dad was lucky in his day, the RAF paid for him to get his licenses before he left, so he could be a driver for what was left of his working life (and some rule breaking went on for him to work beyond retirement range, but let’s not discuss that). My brother paid for his own by spending money on absolutely nothing else, and being lucky to have a rent free job with an employer who was also happy for him to take time out to learn (the horse world is a bit unusual in that regard). I don’t know what options are available to you, but it has to be your number one priority to find a route to class1. With all the noise the government are making, I’d hope there are more chances to do so now, but I don’t know. I only know people looking for class1 with plenty of experience, but then I only know smaller originally owner operator types. The bigger companies you’d hope would be getting some government help to train people… if would make sense, unless political noise isn’t translating into action.
As an aside, the new streamlined route to C+E really worries me for many other reasons.
- recognition abroad … are we creating a new class of drivers who won’t be seen as qualified in the EU? Does that mean we’ll still be reliant on EU workers for continental ferry work?
- road safety … the test isn’t really “easier”, but you can be in an artic on the road with far less experience, and that matters in real life
- insurance … well, insurers will recognise the above, and change their underwriting and rules accordingly
