My question would be "What are they trying to achieve?"
HM Gov can't think retired HGV drivers will come out of retirement because of them do they?
Do we think we'll have a statement saying how they have tried to implore HGV drivers back to the sector but the selfish things just don't want to in a couple of weeks?
Are HGV drivers the next in the firing line from the Governments insane "don't mention Brexit" culture war?
Can't the fishermen drive tankers?
They've got time on their hands now
Are HGV drivers the next in the firing line from the Governments insane “don’t mention Brexit” culture war?
Well, somehow the Road Haulage Association was to blame for panic-buying, so I'm going to say definitely yes!
Obviously, the underlying reason for failure will always be remoaners, but sometimes you need some extra scapegoating to save your political skin.
Can’t the fishermen drive tankers?
They are too busy doing the fruit and veg picking...
Perhaps if we stopped clicking buy now on all those free delivery items it would have helped a bit.
We, the government, the shops, the haulage companies and others, all made this mess.
Sadly, the government should be the referee who stops this sort of mess where capitalism goes from efficient to damaging. But they are not up to the job. Ive never seen any government up to that job.
So you only believe in democracy when your winning?
So you only believe in democracy when you're winning?
The right to withhold labour is a fairly fundamental part of modern western democracy.
So you only believe in democracy when your winning?
Remind me who is winning again?
I think we should have a weekly clap for the truck drivers and then give them a big pay rise like we did the nurses (oh wait we seem to have forgotten about who we need after the crisis but before the wage increase) and for those saying it is not the governments fault who pulled the no deal brexit at the last minute (firms were told to get ready but not for what)
The right to withhold labour is a fairly fundamental part of modern western democracy.
And no-one is forcing you supply labour.
Baroness Vere of Norbiton
The cherry on the sh*t cake.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Vere,_Baroness_Vere_of_Norbiton
So you only believe in democracy when your winning?
Until such time as the leave fanatics admit that project fear reality was correct they get to own their mess and sort the problems out. An apology would also be nice too for all those young people who lost the rights to free movement and the best EU deal going.
When we go back it will be as a full member with no opt-outs on anything and it's going to be after my lifetime.
Until such time as the leave fanatics admit that project fear reality was correct
Except it too both covid and IR35 changes to result in about 1% of what project fear projected.
Remind me who is winning again?
... and what they're winning?
?? In the referendum the brexit voters won. That is how democracy works no.
No, it isn't. We've only been explaining all this for five years, do pay attention.
I swear that this whole mess could've been avoided if the Remain campaign had invested in 17 million dictionaries.
... adjusted down for the ones who can read, anyway.
Baroness Vere was a remainer & member of the pro EU “conservatives in” campaign 🤔
And yet her voting record seems to suggest she wasn't that committed to the idea, and voted with the party to force through the a hard brexit.
So you only believe in democracy when your winning?
...democracy isn't saying whoever wins will get our unequivocal support.
…democracy isn’t saying whoever wins will get our unequivocal support.
shut up and be a good nazi.
Yes they tell us to get behind Brexit trouble is if I got behind it I would put my toe right up its arriss
Also got mine yesterday. I should imagine that many recipients are in the same position as me in that their driver CPC has lapsed, or they never had one.
Notice how the Baroness isn’t offering to pay for that
Got my letter today and fall into this group.
Not going quite my job for this so at most this would be a Saturday / Sunday work. No one will pay for for cpc for 1 day a week driver.
Looking at the jobs going unless I also did ADR for a small tanker (class c only) or upgraded to C+E both of which cost a load of extra money it would not be worth while giving up my weekends for.
When it comes to HGV licenses 'Vere of Norbiton' as she signs her letters won't have any trouble understanding the Class System.
The "clowns" in question are Logistics UK and the RHA who are signatories to this letter. They represent the haulage industry and NOT the drivers and along with the retail industry have caused this issue, not the government. The whole logistics industry from manufacturing to warehousing, distribution and retail is completely dysfunctional and has been for decades. They have been advised by reports over the last few years that they need to sort themselves out but they chose to bury their heads in the sand and carry on with the race to the bottom and this is the result.
It's not just the poor wages either, it's the ridiculously long working hours expected from drivers that need sorting out. What other industry expects a 12 to 15 hour day to be the norm?
The biggest moaners(major supermarkets for example) are the biggest culprits in creating an unnecessarily long day for drivers due to their dysfunctional distribution centres. I always turned-up to my allocated time slot but was virtually guaranteed to be told to park up for between 3 and 6 hours waiting to be unloaded.
You reap what you sow.......Don't blame the government and expect them to sort out a problem caused by private industries over many years despite the political party in power at the time.
Brexit has only highlighted the situation and is not the major contributor.
Fair enough if you don't want to take up this kind offer due to the pay and conditions. If you have something better at the moment of course you wouldn't.
Princes Charles will be on the telly telling you it’s your patriotic duty soon
I think his mam drove HGVs during the war? She could do it.
Got mine today, which is a complete waste of time and energy as I'm currently working as a HGV driver and trying to find a permanent position but being thwarted. Through agency work I've seen the crap conditions some companies make you work in, from stupidly long hours to knackered trucks and everything else you can think of. Did find one place that was good, did over 6 weeks for them and they offered me a permanent job but the wages were too low for me to make it work (not enough to cover commuting costs from Cardiff or the extra rental cost of moving to Bristol). Main barrier for me is my limited experience as I only passed my test in May, loads of companies won't even take agency drivers with less than 1 year of experience.
The government are living in cloud cukkoo land and trying to pass the blame for the mess away to someone else. I fear they will get away with it.
Through agency work I’ve seen the crap conditions some companies make you work in, from stupidly long hours to knackered trucks and everything else you can think of.
And don't forget the agents themselves. 'Danny - I've got this job for you all next week in Hull...'
'Hull - **** off, I live in Sheffield'
'It's only an hour and half there'
'Yes and 3 hours back in rush hour when I've done...'
So 4 1/2 hours driving to and from the depot and 12 hours on the road. Aye they can go stuff themselves 🙂
As to whose fault the mess is. As far as I am concerned the govt sets policy and they could easily have implemnted things differently so as to avoid some, if not all, of the disruption so yes - I do hold them accountable
What other industry expects a 12 to 15 hour day to be the norm?
- Ambulance service
- Many hospital staff
- Firefighters
- Large amounts of oil, gas, chemical production
and many other industries 12 hour shifts are the norm and when the shits hitting the fan 15 hours won't be exceptional.
Even in "soft" areas like software development, accountancy or law it won't be that unusual to find people doing 12+ hr days, nor for sales people or management on the road to be doing 15 hrs round trips.
In contrast, HGV drivers have a legal maximum of 9/10 hrs actually doing the job per day. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you have it easy, but I don't think you are right to assume that your working hours are the worst out there. You potentially have the advantage (although you may not see it as such) of the tacho making sure you get your breaks/rests etc - most people see those things eroded gradually.
But of course, if people aren't happy with that the government could have regulated it better to safeguard your working conditions; could have provided better rest areas, toilet facilities etc. They could also have thought through what would happen if you turn off the EU labour that was willing to prop up the industry by working in shit conditions for less money - it really didn't take Nostradamus to predict an issue, and it might be the industry's issue, but last week has shown that if some factor tips an already ropey industry into failure the whole country suffers and its the job of government through planning, regulation, risk mitigation to avoid that - certainly not to do things which compound it.
? In the referendum the brexit voters won. That is how democracy works no.
WHOOSH!!
Got mine too, but I'd prefer they just renew my existing photocard that they've had for 3 months. Covid meant they extended it for 11 months but it expires in October!
HGV drivers have a legal maximum of 9/10 hrs actually doing the job per day
No, they have a maximum driving time of 9/10. A shift can be a good deal longer and involves a lot more than just driving.
Honestly, when i did it for a few months as I had been made redundant and needed sometnhing to fill in between jobs, I was stunned at just how physically and mentally draining the job was and how long the days were.
Oftentimes I would leave the house at 330-4am and not be home under after 7pm.
What other industry expects a 12 to 15 hour day to be the norm?
– Ambulance service
– Many hospital staff
– Firefighters
– Large amounts of oil, gas, chemical productionand many other industries 12 hour shifts are the norm and when the shits hitting the fan 15 hours won’t be exceptional.
Very true poly, but I expect most of them either go home at the end of the day or have access to decent facilities and are not forced to park on an industrial estate or in a layby and have to pee in a bottle or have a dump in a plastic bag because the service areas are full to overflowing or non existent in the area they are in.
– Ambulance service
– Many hospital staff
– Firefighters
– Large amounts of oil, gas, chemical production
And most have shift patterns to suit the 12hr day as well.
HGV drivers have a legal maximum of 9/10 hrs actually doing the job per day
Maximum shift length of 15 hours (including breaks) with 9/10 hours of actual driving. You can then have just 9 hours of rest then another 15 hour day. Standard break between shifts is a minimum of 11 hours but you can reduce it to 9 3 times in a week and a total of 4 over a fortnight. You can do a maximum of 90 hours in a week but must average no more than 60 in a fortnight and a 6 month average of 48. These maximums very quickly became seen as targets to hit by route planners and shift managers so you end up with a 12 hour shift being seen as a 'short'. Remember these drivers are out there on the road with you in charge of 18-44t of solid steel that will obliterate you and your car if they come into contact.
@reluctantjumper - and there is no time limit of course for the commute to and from the depot meaning you are often driving for a lot longer than 9 hours.
I wouldn't go back to it unless I couldn't find any other work and note I paid for my training etc out of my redundnacy money so £2500 or so and used my license for around 5 months. Not the best investment I ever made 😀
Just noticed I can drive 7.5t on my ancient licence (pink no photo).
Might get a lorry for taking the bike on away rides. Three of us normally ride together, a fourth could be a nominated driver for the day. Straight out the back....ride ends and get back into the lorry Italian Job style 🙂
Also, why cant 7.5t drivers after a period of time automatically (small test) qualify to say Class 2 then 1 thereafter.
I have always wanted a Mack Truck...
7.5tonnes
Very true poly, but I expect most of them either go home at the end of the day or have access to decent facilities and are not forced to park on an industrial estate or in a layby and have to pee in a bottle or have a dump in a plastic bag because the service areas are full to overflowing or non existent in the area they are in.
Absolutely - I think that's a much stronger argument (and it did make me laugh that if Dominic Rab's suggestion of using low risk offenders was followed through on - they'd probably have legitimate human rights issues!). But who is to blame for a lack of infrastructure?
Online version of the newspaper article I linked earlier:
and there is no time limit of course for the commute to and from the depot meaning you are often driving for a lot longer than 9 hours.
Yep, there's nothing stopping you from finishing a shift then going out to a party then straight back to work. As long as you can stay awake and aren't inebriated in any way it's legal. Some drivers do not sleep between shifts as it's the only way they can see their families, particularly night drivers.
Also, why cant 7.5t drivers after a period of time automatically (small test) qualify to say Class 2 then 1 thereafter.
The difference in the driving techniques required is massive. Most 7.5t vehicles are basically bigger vans or pickup trucks (with the odd exception that carries large but not too heavy loads), the loads that a Class 2 can carry are much more dangerous if done incorrectly. As the weight and size of the load increases the complexity of loading and securing it correctly is a big step-up.
But who is to blame for a lack of infrastructure?
Everyone, but mainly the government.
The government for not planning it in in the first place.
The drivers for not forcing the issue sooner.
The regulatory bodies for not fighting for it more.
The road planners for not considering it.
The government for not realising/ignoring it was an issue and doing something about it.
Had my invite come yesterday as well, I'm coming to the end of a seasonal contract (non driving) , so may have to look into getting back onto the wagons over xmas ,despite not really wanting too !
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Ok, I can't figure out how not wanting to drive an HGV makes you anti-democratic. How does that work?
It's not only HGV drivers that have had begging letters. A couple of years ago retired prison officers were getting them as well. That dopey retard called Grayling got shot of loads of prison staff when he was justice minister, then when reality hit home they sent out begging letters to get officers to come back, not many did.
Bloke at work has had his letter, stuck it to the wall to troll the current (unpopular boss).
His response
"If they want to really sort the shortage just say HGV drivers don't pay income tax for 2 years, there'll be no shortage within a week. Unfortunately I'd have to go back driving"
It’s not only HGV drivers that have had begging letters. A couple of years ago retired prison officers were getting them as well.
And retired NHS workers, doctors and nurses last year...If only there some some way to allow people from other countries to come to work and live in the UK.
