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Kids do daft stuff, all this 'burn them and excommunicate their families' stuff is nonsense. I reckon this'll have been a pretty unnerving experience, being arrested in a foreign country etc. and they'll come out the back of it humbled and fully informed of both the history and the seriousness of their actions. You lot getting all frothed about it is as unedifying as it is unnecessary.
That. 100% that.
Also, lets not forget, The most important element to this (the theft aside for just a second, which in itseft is primary and totally abhorrent act) and thats....The..
Network.
Yup, the network all Public Schools work in. The Families they link up with, the social engineering that goes on, the extra classes they are forced into/taken too.. Think of all the the noses that will bent right out of shape and the sheer collapse of the Kids social/come work channel.
Erm, you're breaking the first and second rules of The Network.
- Burchill (Perse alumni) (not a thief)
Not going to look good on the CV is it.
I imagine they will have the wit to leave it off.
Sure I am there ^^ 😆
But I still can't see past the gravity of the act in the place of the act.
And, whilst Kids will do stupid things etc. etc. as a defense is almost saying/sending out a message that the theft is ok. I find that really hard to comprehend, sorry. Clearly I'm in the minority. Also, surely somebody in supervision gave a synopsis of the Place, the Area and What Went On There.. with all that in mind I still find it totally difficult to understand why they undertook the act of theft from what is a monumental piece of sad human history.
But, like I said, I stand by it they will for the foreseeable regret this and their families too.
Don't care what you lot think, clearly I'm of a very small minority here.
😀
You may be able to leave it off but like I said, most companies do background checks on stuff like Criminal convictions etc. etc. etc. Theft, prety bad that. And well certainly in the Industry I'm in they do checks and quite right too, and I guess they would have been channeled into some role or other in the same/similar Industry.
And, whilst Kids will do stupid things etc. etc. as a defense is almost saying/sending out a message that the theft is ok
No it isn't. They'll be punished and they'll have a criminal record, but it won't last forever, it'll expire once served (I'm assuming a fair bit around polish justice system here). They don't need to be vilified for eternity is the point.
@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It's about passing on life skills. It's like us expecting Steve Pete's kids will be better bike riders than ours, FWIW Peaty's dad was a very handy trials bike rider.
I have taken trips of school children to Ypres and other significant sites. I think you under estimate the ability of teenagers to be moved! My students were from a tough area of west London and if you had looked at them as we walked past I have no doubt you would have made lots of assumptions about them.
We took them to the trenches and they didn't really understand what they were seeing, then we took them to one of the big war cemeteries and almost to a child they were shocked and appalled! They went from their usual rowdy selves to being very quiet, reflective and we were dealing with lots of tears from them. They also got very wound up when students from another school were being in their eyes disrespectful.
I think teenagers have a far greater capacity than adults to express their emotions and respond in a more honest way to what they see. I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items! Please don't excuse the actions of these two idiots by saying what do you expect they are teenagers, you are doing most teenagers a massive disservice!
@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It's about passing on life skills. It's like us expecting Steve Pete's kids will be better bike riders than ours, FWIW Peaty's dad was a very handy trials bike rider.
To what extent? So a better education makes no difference?
I don't quite get why there's an assumption that these kids are disrespecting the dead... I wouldn't do it, but what about "This is an experience I will never forget, this is a token of it"
When I first heard the headlines I thought they'd taken things directly from an exhibit; picking stuff off the ground isn't the same, I think they could easily have thought they were just discarded.
They're idiots but no reason to assume it goes further than that imo. They [i]could[/i] be dreadful human beings, equally.
jambalaya - Member@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It's about passing on life skills.
And definitely nothing to do with the massive difference in opportunity.
You lot getting all frothed about it is as unedifying as it is unnecessary.
Indeed. I was initially going to comment that the thread seems like cheap titilation.
But I got wound up by the OP's daft assumption about posh schoolkids.
Now I feel like a Daily Mail reader.
🙁
I have taken trips of school children to Ypres and other significant sites. I think you under estimate the ability of teenagers to be moved! My students were from a tough area of west London and if you had looked at them as we walked past I have no doubt you would have made lots of assumptions about them.We took them to the trenches and they didn't really understand what they were seeing, then we took them to one of the big war cemeteries and almost to a child they were shocked and appalled! They went from their usual rowdy selves to being very quiet, reflective and we were dealing with lots of tears from them. They also got very wound up when students from another school were being in their eyes disrespectful.
I think teenagers have a far greater capacity than adults to express their emotions and respond in a more honest way to what they see. I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items! Please don't excuse the actions of these two idiots by saying what do you expect they are teenagers, you are doing most teenagers a massive disservice!
I think that's a positive reflection on you as their teacher. Perhaps their teachers need to decide whether they adequately prepared their charges for the visit.
What, all that extra work?!?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/school-trip-to-cost-1650-quids-per-child/page/2
Like Burchill I am an Old Persian, and first I heard was the letter I got from the headmaster. The contents of that letter were very much at odds with the report in the Guardian, making it seem much smaller than the newspaper reports. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle as usual.
Secondly I would point out that although £15k sounds a lot, the actual fees are under £14k a year, and compare that to Eaton which is just under £12k per term, and there are means tested bursaries to reduce the fees for those who cant afford it, so some of you should perhaps put your prejudices away? (I know Eaton is boarding and Perse is a day school but there is quite a difference in fees)
For balance I was there for 3 years and hated the place, but we did go to Czech Republic and a concentration camp on a rugby tour, and no one stole anything.
We need a bump to this thread 😆
there are means tested bursaries to reduce the fees for those who cant afford it,
Thats great, so can anyone go?
If you pass the academic requirements, that is the idea
I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items!
I think you'll find that's the whole point ..... it's not the behaviour which you would expect.
Which is why the Polish authorities have punished them, and why they can almost certainly expect more punishment when they get home.
And also why it's become a news story.
Anyone who passes? Whats the test?
Anyone who passes? Whats the test?
The school's own entrance exams. I scraped in via the waiting list..
Whats the test?
Do you have the right accent, do your parents have the right accents, did you turn up in the right type of car?
Normal stuff.
Yes dear, well done...
I's not quite like that that but your background does indeed form part of the selection process.
It's why you see so many 7-8-9yr olds being escorted around Eton nearly every day of the week, in preparation, in expectation, in getting your family name into the "right" places, channels open up for you easily then.
You do understand the concept of social engineering, well I expect you all do.
Hence my comments about Networking and streamlining the social/education path some kids have/have always had.
It's why Cameron is where he is, but you know that.
as cougar mentioned somewhere up there ^^^
the items in question were 'stolen' from the ground.
kids picking stuff up off the ground is not a crime. Inappropriate perhaps, given the circumstances, but understandable (imho).
anagallis_arvensis - Member
So a better education makes no difference?
i read something somewhere that we could make reasonably accurate GCSE predictions based on the make of the parents car.
Don't know about Car model, but Parents income correlates well, here is a graph of US data:
[img] 
?w=387[/img]
But Footflaps, that is Eton, not The Perse...the schools are not aimed at the same market. The Perse doesn't have the draw of Eton and due to a lack of boarding its catchment is pretty limited to Cambridge.
Still, carry with your generalisations...
Lots of things correlate. Correlation does not + causation.
Personally I think they were just kids and probably now regret what they did.
But lets not let that get in the way of a bit of inverse snobbery for those with a chip on their shoulder, eh?
Seventeen is easily old enough to understand the significance of their actions. They probably did it for kicks directly understanding what the 'kick' was caused by. Idiots.
But Footflaps, that is Eton, not The Perse..
You've lost me, I don't ever recall mentioning Eton....
Sorry, that was Bikebouy, not you, too late for a sneaky edit!!
kids picking stuff up off the ground is not a crime. Inappropriate perhaps, given the circumstances, but understandable (imho).
There are prominent signs on entry that removing anything from the camp is a crime.
then that's different. they were told.
When I saw the signs I did wonder who the hell would take something.
I'm not sure that all visitors appreciate how to behave in that kind of place really...there were people doing grinning selfies in front of soot covered cremation ovens.
Some school kids were climbing on a monument that's near the destroyed gas chambers in Auschwitz 2.
There is also graffiti in the huts...going back decades though so not just kids of today.
then that's different. they were told.
You mean you thought that they were under the impression that it was ok to help themselves to whatever they fancied ?
I think it's self-evident that taking something which isn't yours is theft, even for a not very bright 17 year old from a select private school.
kids picking stuff up off the ground is not a crime. Inappropriate perhaps, given the circumstances, but understandable (imho).
Would you feel the same way about kids collecting wreaths from war memorials for trophies?
There are signs saying taking anything from the site is a crime, as even the dirt is packed with bone fragments from the victims
AA, there you go the science scholarship paper before you get there. Kind of falsifies the type of car argument doesn't it!
Twelve and thirteen year olds sit that paper.
There was a very interesting R4 segment with the current head of Eton, whose aim is to make Eton fee free within his tenure, if a kid is clever enough they get in, they get a spot. He believed he could do it as well.
He also mentioned that Eton have been offered several million before for a place and said no. He did mention that they might be a price but he hasn't been tempted yet.
But lets not let that get in the way of a bit of inverse snobbery for those with a chip on their shoulder, eh?
Not just that, there is the direct accusation about the morals of those who choose to invest in their kids education!!!
Still could be worse, currently ploughing through Owen Jones diatribe against The Establishment as a holiday read. 😉
AA, there you go the science scholarship paper before you get there. Kind of falsifies the type of car argument doesn't it!
Not really no. Just look at the educational background of those at oxbridge too.
Not just that, there is the direct accusation about the morals of those who choose to invest in their kids education!!!
Your morals are different from mine, this is not news.
ernie_lynch - Member
then that's different. they were told.
You mean you thought that they were under the impression that it was ok to help themselves to whatever they fancied ?
I just thought it was a bit of a leap from:
A) picking up something that's on the ground
To
B) 'stealing whatever they fancied'
And now, even after finding out about the specific requests/warnings not to remove any items from the site, i'm still struggling to find much enthusiasm for pursuing the kind of response that would leave these kids with a criminal record.
Stupid kids yes, treat them as such.
Criminals?...
It's why [s]Cameron[/s] Blair/Milliband/(insert name of any other modern-day leading politician) is where he is, but you know that.
They [i]all[/i] go to posh schools/universities, with a few exceptions.
I don't think 17 year old boys have the imagination required to comprehend the holocaust by basically being asked to look at what basically amounts some old huts.
I bet if theyd been watching Schindler's List on Imax they wouldn't have picked anything up off the floor.