[Closed] have the tories gone too far?

Was just going to say get thee to Saltaire and look at some Hockneys, plus big bike shop on the ground floor...

Anyway, if it's all about money and not simply ideology, why this:

[b]Controversial tax boss Dave Hartnett agreed a deal to let Vodafone off a £6bn tax bill, it emerged yesterday.[/b]

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=514832&in_page_id=2

😥
The Independent State Yeti.

Berm Bandit. Are you suggesting that we're not all in this together, after all?

Not at all.... We're all in it together, its them other bastards that aren't!

Yeah, what is this 'Naan challenge' of which you speak??

I really enjoyed the Nat Media Museum last time I went.

And I [i]loved[/i] Saltaire. Pippa what I'm not allowed to be near*, she lives in a lovely cottage there.

[img] [/img]

*It's for her own safety. Or so I'm told. I fail to see what harm could befall her were I to be allowed near her though. I think it's a very unfair policy tbh.

Britain gained its wealth from stealing it from other country's when we had an empire, maybe we could go back to that, it worked 🙂

Right binners / elf - Omars is a tip top indian restaurant (just round the corner from the Alhambra). They do 3 sizes of naan, regular, large, and family. The family one costs a fiver, and is about 4 feet across (seriously). If you order one, and eat it with a curry (with no help), you get your meal free, and (I think) free meals for a year. As far as I'm aware, its bloody impossible. How does an STW curry night out in Bradford sound?

Just nipping out to tescos - will attempt to drum up interest in a curry frenzy when I get back.

Can the Mrs do us all matching 'curry challange' eating-suits Mitch?

How does an STW curry night out in Bradford sound?

Bloody Brilliant!!! When?!

You can do the return leg and join us for the South Manchester Kebab Night Rides. Prey silence for the King Sized Mixed Kebab from the Turkish Delight

Either, we pay more tax, or we spend less - its one or the other!

Rubbish.

For a start, you could stop all those super-rich who think paying taxes is just for "little people" getting away with tax avoidance.

Secondly, you could nationalise the utilities.......why should my electricity company, which is owned by the French government, use their profit to pay for government provisions in France and, help reduce taxation in that country ?

Thirdly, you could get 2 million people back to work, so that they are all paying taxes ........ instead of pushing unemployment up even higher.

Fourthly, you could force employers to pay a [u]living wage[/u] so that the government isn't forced to subsidise them through the benefits system.

And so I could go on.......there are plenty of ways of reducing the deficit. Unfortunately none, other than the cuts, fit in with Tory ideology.

Yes Z-11, as you quite rightly say : [b]"Government spending has gone UP!"[/b] Which simply proves that the Tory solution is bollox.

The cuts have nothing at all to do with the deficit - Cameron has freely admitted that they will remain even after/if the deficit is cleared.....just like the hike in VAT btw.

have the tories gone too far?

Not nearly far enough.

Ooh that sounds like an excellent plan. I'll let you know when I'm going to be up there next, and hopefully we can have a meet-up. That'll be nice actually. Troutie is from just north of Bradford, and you've got JohnDrummer and a few others up that way too. Binners, you could drag Hora up from Uddersfield too, couldn't you? Would be nice to have something to abuse while we enjoy our meal.

Did you know that a great place in Granada, Spain, was inspired by and named after the World Famous Bradford Alhambra? Truly it is a city of great culture and history.

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Will Theresa May be taking a pay cut as, you know, we're all in this together?

well first round of redundancies announced this week at my institute, fortunately it seems my team leader has found us somewhere else to go as we were affected

these are pre-emptive based on the best case scenario of the cuts to be announced in april, it seems likely more will go,
our ceo recently warned that beyond a certain percentage of staff loss we would cease to function as an institution - one that was recently rated the highest in the field of cancer research in the country

this is being repeated in science institutes and universities up and down the country, the governments assertion that only a handfull of universities would charge the top whack of 9grand a year has been shown to be bollox, every single one is considering it to make up for the cumulative effect of cuts to direct/indirect educational funding, research grants, caps on foreign workers/students

if the tories go much further and cut more science funding then we can just do away with innovation and research in this country and all become call centre operators or maybe minicab drivers

edit and as for privatising forensics science
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The loss of manufacturing is also largely to blame for our current state we are in. God i cant wait to get out of this country!

Not nearly far enough.

No we can still see them. They need to back up a bit more!

I work as a visiting support worker for people with disabilities and learning disabilities and no matter what the government are saying, the most vulnerable people in society ARE being affected BADLY! Day centres, collage courses and other support services are being cut left right and centre and it's happening NOW
This lot are lying scum 😈 we are doomed!
I see riots in the streets within twelve months

Mr Woppit - Member

Will Theresa May be taking a pay cut as, you know, we're all in this together?

Yes she will Woppit.........all cabinet ministers will be taking a 5% pay cut.

Of course Theresa May has an estimated personal fortune of £1.6 million, so whilst it will undoubtedly be a struggle for her to survive on the almost £3,000 a week she gets as a cabinet minister, I'm sure she'll manage somehow.

And rest assured, all the other cabinet ministers have personal fortunes they can rely on, most probably considerably more than Theresa May, so you don't need to loose any sleep worrying about them.....they'll be just fine.

I see riots in the streets within twelve months

You won't have to wait that long, once the clocks go back and it warms up a bit it will all kick off.

i thought the evil tories(tm) were planning to cut that bank holiday too!
after all it is a day assosciated with the working classes

Why don't all politicians who have other earnings waive their salaries? I mean, Cameron doesn't really need his, as he has pots of money already, and a free house which we're paying for...

If every MP did this, the country would save around forty million pounds a year. A drop in the ocean, sure, but it would at least be something.

In fact, why not just scrap their salaries altogether? Most of 'em have other incomes anyway, and representing the People shouldn't be about the money, surely?

i did notice that cameron say he had a dreadful experience filling out disabilty living allowance form for his sons medical expenses or soemthing similar
did find it a bit surprising that he needed the financial support from the taxpayer

would very much be willing to drive for 5 hours for a naan challenge. this appeals to everything sensible inside me.

You won't have to wait that long, once the clocks go back and it warms up a bit it will all kick off.

I've noticed that.........things always kick off in warm climates - think Greece, Spain, Egypt, etc. And yet nothing happens in countries such as Iceland and Ireland.... despite the equally dire situation.

Bring on the Sun I reckon.......and the revolution.

In fact, why not just scrap their salaries altogether? Most of 'em have other incomes anyway, and representing the People shouldn't be about the money, surely?

So you think only "gentlemen of some means" should become MPs ?

Well that will certainly exclude the lower-classes, riff-raff, etc.

Suggest your idea to the Bullingdon Boys 💡

I'm well up for a curry night in Barnsley. Dads in horbury. Think I stand a pretty good chance of completing this challenge. I know another guy who lives there too, think he would have a good shot at it too!

i did notice that cameron say he had a dreadful experience filling out disabilty living allowance form for his sons medical expenses or soemthing similar
did find it a bit surprising that he needed the financial support from the taxpayer

The problems he had are down to him being a bit stooopid, when does the ripple of evidence become a tsunami... when it's too late?
He should be able to claim them though... 'universal benefits for all' and all that...

No no no, not Barnsley; Bradford! Is more better.

My mate Andy could possibly complete the Naan Challenge. He's a proper greedy bastid. If he comes round, you have to padlock your cupboards and fridge. I once caught him making an omelette.

I really cannot believe that this will improve snything. I fail to see the white ni ght of capitalism surging into the void to rescue us all from recession and employ all the redundnant public sector workers. We now wait 4 years to see whether georgge is a genius or a fool.
the argument that we have no choice is nonesense beyond balancing the books in the long run we could do many thinks as ernie notes. Plenty of other ways beyond sacking poor people who deliver services to support even poorer people
What about a 9k tax on private schools rather than university fees for example.
+1 for curry
-1 for meat based Kebab idea

saying that the public sector needed to also feel the pain that the private sector was

Holds hand up. But not just to be punitive. Cuts need to be carefully thought through to maintain the services the people and economy need. The cuts being imposed at the moment seem to be politically driven (in a bad way), ridiculously rushed and unlikely to benefit either the population or the economy. I really think the public sector should be smaller but I'm really not sure arbitarily making people redundant at this time is a particularly clever move.

I've always considered myself to be conservative with a small c (the politcal compass websiter not withstanding which had me in the same political grouping as Ghandi which was a bit of a shock) but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that peoplke like Ernie may actually be right, the right wing politicos really are self serving greedy gits only looking after the interests of a tiny minority of seriously rich people. They sure as hell no longer represent people like me and I ought to be a core voter for them. If they're not that corrupt then they're amazingly incompetant which may be just as bad.

What ever your politcal position I don't think many people will think the countrie's in a good place at the moment, double dip here we come.

In fact, why not just scrap their salaries altogether?

May I respectfully suggest that you read up on the Chartist Movement and their demands for political reform in the Nineteenth Centuary. This should convince you that to not pay MP is a really, really bad idea.

I'm forty five now and seen a good few crappy governments come and go, seen house values, jobs, wages go up and down with each one and seen good time and bad times
I've never seen such blatant lying scum as this lot, Blair and Gordon came close, Maggie had a good go, this lot have no qualms about sending us to hell in a bucket, a cheap plastic one, made in china, red probably.......cos it's fastest... 😥

Not nearly far enough.

I agree. A bit of shock therapy is required for the middle classes and then they will perhaps see the consequences of the political/economic policies of the last thirty years and who was driving these changes.

Woppit, perhaps you have a slightly bigger brain after all. 😉

Thirdly, you could get 2 million people back to work, so that they are all paying taxes ........ instead of pushing unemployment up even higher.

Fourthly, you could force employers to pay a living wage so that the government isn't forced to subsidise them through the benefits system.

How are you going to do the first one with a expandeible workforce due to EU membership who will be attracted by your second idea?

Today I taught my upper 6th Biology class who are all looking forward to going to University next year and then straight after had my lower sixth class, many of which are not going to go to university..... and those who do will be 27 grand more in debt than those a year older than them. That is an idealogical shift and nothing to do with the defecit as it wont be reversed, it is, I think, very sad. Some cuts maybe needed, but taxation hasnt been altered much apart from increasing VAT which hits those on low wages more, I struggle to understand why anyone could think these measures are right.

I was also watching that witch announce the police pay cuts last night and describe how the police needed to have cuts to be the same as the rest of the public sector, except the cuts werent cuts at all it was a pay freeze which whilst not nice is very different from a cut. The news prog. failed to pick her up on this.

Gone too far? They haven't done anything yet. Other than spend yet more of other peoples money. Other people who haven't even been born yet because they owe so much.

They could happily simplify all the pointless crap we have to put up with and get rid of half the public sector overnight.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Today I taught my upper 6th Biology class who are all looking forward to going to University next year and then straight after had my lower sixth class, many of which are not going to go to university..... and those who do will be 27 grand more in debt than those a year older than them. That is an idealogical shift and nothing to do with the defecit as it wont be reversed, it is, I think, very sad.

I agree, feels just like 1997 when the Labour government introduced tuition fees/scrapped grants in the first place.

On the spending cuts, from the "[url= http://fullfact.org/factchecks/public_spending_are_we_returning_to_2006_07_or_08-1582 ]spending doscument[/url]"...

“public spending as a percentage of GDP will return to the level seen in 2006-07, and in real terms will retrun to the level seen in 2008-09.”

In relation to the above (and as noted in the linked article), of course spending on debt servicing has risen in the meantime, so less is available to spent on services then was in either 2006, 2007 or 2008.

There would have been cuts to public spending cuts whoever won the election. It was, as the saying goes, a good election to lose. Have the Conservatives gone too far? I'd say not - but that doesn't mean it's not going to hurt.

The really dreadful news is that it means Labour might regain power at the next election...

This says

[b]YES[/b]

I agree with stumpyjon. Always used to lean towards the Tories but Ernie, whom I don't normally agree with on political matters, is making sense.

Ernie for PM. 😀

They could happily simplify all the pointless crap we have to put up with and get rid of half the public sector overnight

There would have been cuts to public spending cuts whoever won the election

[IMG] [/IMG]

I agree, feels just like 1997 when the Labour government introduced tuition fees/scrapped grants in the first place.
Posted 53 min

really? 27 grand is a lot more than the debt i came away with i started in 1995 got a grant for 2 of those years but was 'only' a couple of grand a year

really? 27 grand is a lot more than the debt i came away with i started in 1995 got a grant for 2 of those years but was 'only' a couple of grand a year

Is there a difference in the way the fees will have to be paid back as opposed to the way grants are?

If it's just about money, about balancing the books, how come this:

http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2008/02/tescos-tax-tricks.html

It's ideological, and will have the unintended effect of politicising a new generation of young people who will come to realise, yet again, that the Tories are not nice people.