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Just clicked over to some documentary type thing.
800 odd pupils at 33k each ish. That's roughly 26 million quid. Someone must be seriously making some coin 😯
Daddy is paying and he is minted so it doesn't matter.
Hey ho.
If average teachers wages are about £30,000 then the salary bill is around £10-12m a year.
I imagine that the facilities take some looking after as well. I don't imagine that they're actually making that much money - but obviously not impoverished!
They probably have playing fields to look after, so that would cost a bit.
Would be interesting to see a breakdown and a state school costing also.
If average teachers wages are about £30,000 then the salary bill is around £10-12m a year.
400 Teachers? I doubt it.
Where'd you get that teacher figure from?
12 kids a class, I make that 67 ish teachers. Even at 50k a year that's less than £3.4 mil.
400 teachers aP? No wonder the kids do well!
You do know that with on-costs it ends up costing nearly double your salary to employ you?
A private school employs far more than just teaching staff.
And has to pay for maintenance, upkeep, utilities, equipment etc.
I'd guess it is a Charity so doesn't make a profit an reinvests any extra money back into the school?
Teachers are probably on more than average as well as they'll want to attract the best.
You do know that with on-costs it ends up costing nearly double your salary to employ you?
You do know that still doesn't make £12m.
200 x 30k x 2 = ?
It serves well to remind us just how much it can actually cost to run a school, be it private, state or acadamy.
Ps what are the 'on costs' that double the salary bill?
200 Teachers for 800 pupils. 😯
Ps what are the 'on costs' that double the salary bill?
Tax
Insurance
Benefits (holdays, sick pay, pension etc.)
Training
Administration staff
Management staff
Probably more
It's a charity - that helps with the finances.
Open your eyes! They're raking it in! Fair play! Anybody want to sign up to a new school in Derbyshire? Mountain biking top of the curriculum!!
A private school employs far more than just teaching staff.
Just like state schools then.
The Harrow line stopped with my Dad. Turned his back on establishment and the money at 18. We had a very alternative up-bringing. Strangely enough my daughter has just got a 42k bursary to a top public school for 6th form(day girl), her choice! I must admit it is a lovely learning environment.
The old school connection does, I'm afraid, open very gilded doors. I bump into people who knew Family members from school and incredibly it's put them at ease at once.
Come the revolution private/public schools will be abolished and everyone has a state education, same quality for all.
. I bump into people who knew Family members from school and incredibly it's put them at ease at once.
Me too but they went to state school. Funny how people know family members puts them at ease.
They will pay high salaries, the headmaster will be on £200k or so, plus most teaching staff will be provided with the option of accommodation as it is a boarding school, historic buildings cost a lot to maintain as many of them will Grade I listed etc etc. They don't make a profit, no one owns them. Harrow isn't a charity, although it is treated as a charity as it is one of the Clarendon Schools.
Project, if you can make every single school as good as a mediocre place like Harrow, get on with your revolution, please.
Weird isn't it. I could be a total psychopath for all they know!
My Dad did very well at school but his half joke was that why pay so much to ruin your children's life? They were doing a good enough job!
I know the last state school I worked in had about 1000 pupils and its budget was about 5 million for the year plus per capita funding for 6th form students so no where near what they are pulling in at Harrow.
Was that a boarding school somouk?
and the headmaster will be well over 100k + benefits and pension and the heads of departments will probably be on 60k+.
Used to teach there!
and the headmaster will be well over 100k + benefits and pension and the heads of departments will probably be on 60k+.
Private school head of department in London is about £50K.
Was that a boarding school somouk?
It was a state school. Head teacher was on 100k a year and deputies on 50 - 60k a year, head of department or head of years were on 35k and a typical teacher salary of between 25 and 30k.
Lots of teachers with over 1000 kids knocking around.
I thought some government run school heads of departments are on £50k+
Frankenstein - Member
Used to teach there!
Now you are retired at 50 and sail round the world on a big yacht? 😉
Project, if you can make every single school as good as a mediocre place like Harrow, get on with your revolution, please
Thats quite easy if the children dont do well you tell them to leave and go else where.That then equals all schools.
I thought some government run school heads of departments are on £50k+
maybe in that there London, but outside I would say about £45, some maybe 50 but not much more than that and thats in a big department like english maths or science
Though i'm not suggesting that Harrow and these top grade private schools are lacking funding, is 26 million a year really that much to run a top not and fully equipped leisure centre, Polo horses and stables (no doubt), Rowing club, a fully equipped library with all the facilities and resources any library around the country can only dream of, maintain the buildings and all the other things that a school like Harrow offers its pupils? I'm not so sure 26million will stretch that far when you look at all facilities and resouces the school offers its pupils, though i'm sure its a thriving business.
After watching that documentary on Harrow I actually felt sorry for the kids being dumped by their posh parents so they can swan off around the world doing their own thing. Makes you wonder why these people have kids in the first place. I can understand how anyone would want the very best for their kids and would pay whatever they could to provide that, but I got the impression that most of the kids were basically being palmed off by their parents as they were an inconvenience to their own life and ambitions. I wonder how many of these kids leave with serious issues that they probably won't ever come to terms with. I think its a poisoned chalice for many of them. Not all of them are royal trained to cushy jobs and the stereotype of the awfully nice but dim, down and out failed sad public school boy, who's desperately tried to please his successful parents and justify their expensive education is not too uncommon.
Parents of all levels of wealth neglect their kids.
At the end of the day the odd's are these ones will fair much better than most.
After watching that documentary on Harrow I actually felt sorry for the kids being dumped by their posh parents so they can swan off around the world doing their own thing. Makes you wonder why these people have kids in the first place.
I find myself agreeing with wobbliscott. 😯
One of the reasons for banning boarding schools, caring for your Children is more than just sending them away to get the best education, emotional needs are not catered for. No wonder those who attend who then go on into business and politics/join the tory party turn out to be heartless bar stewards.
wobbliscott - Member
After watching that documentary on Harrow I actually felt sorry for the kids
I am sure they are touched.
Makes you wonder why these people have kids in the first place.
fashion items, toys perhaps
I wonder how many of these kids leave with serious issues that they probably won't ever come to terms with.
86.5% in 2012 up from 81.2 in 2001.
awfully nice but dim, down and out failed sad public school boy
It's shocking how many are around these days. Perhaps we could set up a charity to help them out?
emotional needs are not catered for.
Close them all down its a travesty. Emotionally scared kids will be saved and forever grateful.
Have we had the customary envy induced "Harrow is mediocre" yet? Next it'll be shoehorning in "...that slough grammar..." in relation to Eton as the ex-private school boys fellate each other in their mutual envy of more expensive schools. How unedifying - not at all reminiscent of the kind of characters these ex-fags would have us believe their (albeit cheaper) schools produce.
I knew a lad called Merlin who went there.
He had three others sharing his namesake.
Wisest most sage and dependable young man I have even met. Even though he now trades futures.
Like all good wizards.
This is my Fathers argument. While equipping a young man with a good education/gun skills and a raft of similarly placed peers, the fundamental reality of being dumped by your parents in a cold and brutal environ(then) does not set a man up for the modern times. Not saying all families are like this, but back then a high percentage. He felt he had to break that cycle, which meant initially taking lots of acid and being cut off financially, and what little, that constituted parental love and affection(resolution came later, but at a price).
I went to a progressive private school for a year and hated it(paid for by my other grandparents). Country primary, working on a farm, riding bikes and a lefty comp sorted me out. Got excellent grades and a place at SOAS. My social circles are defined by the quality of the people, not place on the ladder. Stuck in a social strangle hold strikes me as some sort of torture.
tang - Member
While equipping a young man with a good education/gun skills and a raft of similarly placed peers, the fundamental reality of being dumped by your parents in a cold and brutal environ(then) does not set a man up for the modern times.
That excellent news. All that past inequality stuff nailed once and for all. The 7% of kids emerging from these cold torture chambers will be unable to thrive, indeed even survive, in modern times. So they will be confined to the dustbins of history forever. Old Gove will be pleased as punch.
They might let you in on the joke one day deadly, who knows!?!
I can't speak for the likes of Harrow etc but an ex of mine went to Roedean from the age of 11 to 15 (late 80's/early90's) purely because her father got a job teaching there and her mother got a job as housemistress in one of the dorms - of her lasting impressions of the place from what i've heard over the time i went out with her and from a one off visit to the place when she got invited back down for a class reunion i have to say i have never met such a crowd of up their own arses stuck up **** hoighty-toighty snobs of the highest order in my life, her existence at the school was made an absolute hell because she never came from money or had the means to disappear on weekend ski holidays or to the numerous holiday weekends in Biarritz or Monaco, Daddies helicopter never picked her up and whisked her off for a spending spree in Paris or suchlike and because she was only accepted at the school because her parents taught there, the other girls at the time made her life hell and she still has self esteem issues to this day because of it.
Our visit back down for the class reunion proved very amusing in early 2000 though, we met up with an old friend of mine who was/is a well known musician/dj from Brighton in his rather nice car and obviously the girls flocked round him and my ex's classmates (who used to spit on her and rub chewing gum in her hair) made such a fawning/out of control fuss of her for knowing this person that she eventually flipped and head butted the head girl (who used to throw ink over her) busting her nose then ran up on stage and grabbed the mike from the compare and proceeded to rip ten tons of shite in a scottish accent from the crowd gathered in the grand hall before running off the stage shouting "you're all a bunch of stuck up ****s" , needless to say we left in a screech of tyres and to this day it is the most rock 'n roll thing i have ever experienced, we did have a massive blow out in Brighton that night and all was well with us the following day 😀 Gaw'd bless her…….still talked about to this day
I think he meant on a emotionally balanced level. The modern man loves his children and shows it in simple real terms that a 4 year old can understand. This might be second nature to most of us, but back then dining in the officers mess or inhabiting of corridors of commerce or Whitehall were no place for such weakness. You needed a rod like spine full of tension to keep the show on the road, and school was the beginning. It must have been awful.
I have two children and there is no way I would send them away for weeks at a time! Sounds like neglect to me, even if you do pay massive fees for someone else to look after them!
I am also not convinced that private schools have the best teachers, they don't have to hold QTS to work there, and given that generally means they don't have a PGCE how have they learnt how to teach?
I am sure they are touched.
I thought that was just something us plebs made up to for a laugh 😆
I am also not convinced that private schools have the best teachers, they don't have to hold QTS to work there, and given that generally means they don't have a PGCE how have they learnt how to teach?
Have you heard of Mr Gove? That is the case with state schools now. It helps us close the gap with the private sector. Does of course not address the issue raised by the op!
Mate of mine went to private school. Completely different background and life experiences to me, but no obvious personality flaws and we get along fine.
Posts on here too, so can't be all bad.
Not sure I would send my kids to one if we could afford it. Have to balance the opportunities with possible problems. Hard to avoid the prejudices of envy when discussing it though
They might let you in on the joke one day deadly, who knows!?!
I can't wait. I bet it's hilarious.
A big secondary school in North of UK would have a budget of c.6 million for about 1100 pupils.
Staff (teachers and support) take up well over half the budget.
State schools are great value for money, just imagine what they could deliver with 8million between 1100 pupils!
800 pupils,£5.5 million a year plus various grants for link college pupils. Head of a 7 teacher/4 subject faculty £44,600.
The head of the faculty clearly needs a better union, that's less than a tube driver
My small experience of private schools in the south west is that the teachers are paid much less than the state sector, and do not get as good a deal (ie stat sick pay/maternity etc). I'm sure Harrow as probs one of the best in the country pay higher salaries as I would imagine they want the best staff. The school our kids go to pride themselves on small teacher pupil ratio's and high quality pastoral care. Most private schools are charities so the money gets spent on more facilities, bursary's and the like. Anyway places like Harrow probably get given donations bigger than 26million every year from alumni..
Sis in law has just taken in a Head of English role, salary is about £38k to start with.
My lad did a taster day as a chorister, at a cathedral school. Choristers had to board, at £17k. Bargain!!!
Sadly, my meagre salary couldnt stretch that far. 😐
The tube drivers and their union have shot themselves in their feet. All they've done us to create a strong business case for driverless trains.
That would be me thm... 😆 have you been here long? We are overpaid workshy militants who strike at the drop of a hat with no regards for stw'ers child care needs.
. I beg to differ. My BIL taught history at a few august institutions before emigrating to Singapore to teach the kids of the Asian aristocracy a few years ago.I am also not convinced that private schools have the best teachers
When he left his UK post, there were over 400 serious applications for his job. I'm guessing the school picked the best person for the job. And contrary to toy19's post, this school at least, paid a good bit more than a state school job and conditions were at least as good. He did have to give up half of every Saturday for rugby duties though...
Money was better in private,but pension costs were higher,it evened itself out. Plus you could get phoned at 10pm and told somebody was ill and you were going to a play in England with an overnight stop. I do rugby,doe and trips abroad,but it seemed weird it being compulsory rather than something I choose to do.
Odd to think why anyone would want to teach at harrow if they didn't want to be involved with all the extra activities. That's part of the appeal. Ditto the pupils, why go there if you are not going to take advantage of what is being offered. That would be a waste of money for all concerned.
Money was better in private,but pension costs were higher,it evened itself out.
off my Mrs works part time in a private school, she gets the same pension as me, good for her but cant help thinking that again the tax payer is subsidising the private sector.
Odd to think why anyone would want to teach at harrow if they didn't want to be involved with all the extra activities.
sometimes I think your wired up wrong, would you do extra work for nothing so that you could spend more time with other peoples kids and not your own?
They are doing the same thing so no conflict AA!
But yes, the whole point of teaching in a school like harrow is to be thoroughly involved in as much of what is going in as possible. So sport on sat! music in sun etc. Fantastic way of life. Stupid IMO to teach there if that is not what you wasn't to do. Imagine having to sit in a chapel etc several times a week and not appreciating the splendour if it all and the music?
Being wired wrong is doing a job you don't enjoy.
But yes, the whole point of teaching in a school like harrow is to be thoroughly involved in as much of what is going in as possible.
bless, I do love an idealist
My daughter went to a boarding school for a while, it was her choice and it was against my wishes but I respected her choice. As it happens she only stayed a year. Trying to "ban boarding schools" because they don't reflect your views of how parenting/schooling should work is very narrow minded.
I didn't watch the programme but I imagine Harrow has some very decent facilities which cost money to provide.
@AA private sector schools (and the parents of the children there) are massively subsidising the state sector. Tax revenue from private sector wages, parents paying high taxes and then not requiring places in the state sector thus reducing financial burden which would exist otherwise etc.
Well it's not your choice AA nor is teaching outside the syllabus. So you have made the correct decision for you. Others make different ones and enjoy the experience immensely.
Aren't all boarding schools just like Hogwarts? Harry Potter has to be one of the best adverts for a private education ever, with it showing such a rose tinted version of the experience.
@AA private sector schools (and the parents of the children there) are massively subsidising the state sector. Tax revenue from private sector wages, parents paying high taxes and then not requiring places in the state sector thus reducing financial burden which would exist otherwise etc.
you really believe that! Wow, just, wow.
Oh and whilst it wasnt me who suggested banning private schools I'm pretty sure it wasnt the boarding aspect that worries them, it much more relates to your first point.
PS THM what do you do for a living as you certainly like to play the expert on education.
I would happily good money to send my GF's boy to boarding school 🙂
Sorry, double post!
Aren't all boarding schools just like Hogwarts? Harry Potter has to be one of the best adverts for a private education ever, with it showing such a rose tinted version of the experience.
My wife boarded (Wycombe Abbey). She was sold it on the basis of Malory towers.
In terms of price it isn't that bad when you look at the cost of nursery places or university.
@AA private sector schools (and the parents of the children there) are massively subsidising the state sector. Tax revenue from private sector wages, parents paying high taxes and then not requiring places in the state sector thus reducing financial burden which would exist otherwise etc.
you really believe that! Wow, just, wow.
It's an easy sum.
Current tax payers fund the existing state school of x million pupils.
Remove the private schools, and you have x plus y million pupils, where y is the number of private pupils).
So either there's less money per pupil, or taxes go up.
richmars - "subsidising", yes, "massively subsidising", I doubt.
Got any stats?
No, I'll let you find out x and y, and how you define massively.
Going back to teachers in private schools - there were some awful teachers at my boarding school - the facilities were great though. But then it did close down a year after I left, mainly because 3/4s of my year didnt stay on for our A levels. Its now an 'adventure camp' of some sort.
Really enjoying the Harrow series, reminds me of a much much posher version of my school days.
You win....ONE INTERNET!
It's an easy sum.
No it isnt, take teacher training for instance, who pays for that?
The poor dont get a better deal out of education due to the rich not being "invested" in it
Those who don't have kids subsidise every body 😉
Those who don't have kids subsidise every body
Exactly, which is why I don't mind paying twice for education.
The sums are pretty easy. Cost of educating 7.8% of UK children minus implicit cost of charitable status. The state is quids in. Thank goodness.
For someone who talks themselves up as an economics expert as well as an education expert that is a very weak analysis
Feel free to correct this weak analysis......sorry VERY weak analysis....