I'm more interested in these figures than the completely unprovable bollocks about how much the monarchy brings in via tourism. Last article I read about the crown estate suggested we got a pretty good deal out of it, dunno how accurate the numbers are tho, I'm dubious that we do that well (249M) out of it.The revenue paid to the UK from the Crown Estate is at a record £285 million. So, take away the Queen's £35.7 million, and the UK is left with £249 million.
But the whole monarchy primogeniture stuff is just embarrassing really, strip away the pomp, circumstance and flag waving idiots* and try to explain to someone with no experience of it all why we're still doing all this shit in a supposedly civilised democratic country. Monarchy is the pinnacle of a class society we aren't supposed to have any more.
*TBF you get flag waving idiots at a star wars opening night, I find them just as embarrassing... and I quite like star wars.
dazh - Member"she's been a pretty good monarch"
How are you measuring that? ............ Or maybe the fact that she's gone 60 years without the royal family's support for the nazis ever becoming a major issue?
The Queen is a Nazi !!!
It must be true ........ 'cause I've seen irrefutable photographic evidence !!!
and....?you may end up with someone elected by X Factor viewers.
OK so a saturday night phone in could result in some pretty inadvisable heads of state, but a democratically elected one doesn't seem like a bad idea*, it's certainly less ridiculous that our accident of birth method
*if we actually [i]need[/i] one in the first place.
Well for me it is about having a Head of State that can represent us with dignity and diplomacy on the world stage.
Who would you have instead? Make the PM the Head of State like the Americans do?
I'd much rather have someone who wasn't party political and could see the long game, rather than trying to score cheap points for the next election.
The Queen is far more recognisable than some guy who got voted in a couple of years ago and looks a lot like the previous Etonian balloon face but with a different colour tie.
It's a very effective piece of branding for the country. How many people in the world recognise her compared to say Recep Tayyip Erdo?an?
Plus of course I think its generally a good thing that the PM can spend his/her time doing the job we elect and pay them to do and leave the fannying about on state visits and post office openings to a figurehead.
The Crown Estate thing is a total red herring. The CE's income comes from what it owns - the seabed, lots of very valuable real estate, stuff like that. Things which, if we didn't have a monarchy, would belong to the country anyway.
That £249M isn't extra money because of the Queen, it's income that the state would get anyway if the state owned those assets.
The only way it becomes extra income is if you're servile enough to think that the Queen deserves to own huge swathes of the country, and it's really generous of her to share it with her subjects.
That £249M isn't extra money because of the Queen, it's income that the state would get anyway if the state owned those assets.
Fair point, but how would it be taxed if the state owned it? HMG would pay tax to itself?
Well for me it is about having a Head of State that can represent us with dignity and diplomacy on the world stage.
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Things which, if we didn't have a monarchy, would [s]belong to the country anyway.[/s]have been sold off for a fiver and a cushy position on the board
FTFY
Fair point, but how would it be taxed if the state owned it? HMG would pay tax to itself?
The CE doesn't magically create money, it comes from seabed licenses for wind turbines, rental income for property, stuff like that. Which would go straight to the government, if there was no CE.
ben: yes, good examples, that is a key part of diplomacy: shaking hands with people that you'd really rather not.
ben: yes, good examples, that is a key part of diplomacy: shaking hands with people that you'd really rather not.
Ah, so her good job is to put a sparkly tiara on our dealings with dictators?
Is that really a good thing?
Photograph Wars !
I give you President Blair :
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Yep. Sorry but it is.
Would you rather we were openly hostile to every country that we disapprove of? Do you think that would create more peace?
Would you rather we were openly hostile to every country that we disapprove of?
No, but we could at least try to stop flogging them military hardware all the time.
Ernie, all that proves is that the UK is pathetically compliant when it comes to being nice to dictators, as long as there's some money in it for us.
Ernie, all that proves is that the UK is pathetically compliant when it comes to being nice to dictators, as long as there's some money in it for us.
So nothing to do with Queenie being a Nazi then ?
Photograph Wars !
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The royalty - biggest user of benefits in the country, yet some have no problem with it and justify it with reasons others would disagree with. Funny old world we live in....
No, but we could at least try to stop flogging them military hardware all the time.
We could - but that would be up to the politicians not the head of state. And given that unfortunately we are one of the world biggest arms suppliers, I can't see it happening any time soon.
I'd much rather have someone who wasn't party political and could see the long game, rather than trying to score cheap points for the next election.
The long game being keeping her family in favour and power (and money) for as long as possible?
biggest user of benefits in the country
Oh here we go again............[i]"I know a family of foreigners who were given a huge house, have their holidays paid for, blah, blah, blah...."[/i]
What is it with some people hating those on benefits so much?
"The long game being keeping her family in favour and power (and money) for as long as possible?"...... said every politician since the dawn of time... 😉
The long game being keeping her family in favour and power (and money) for as long as possible?
No - the far longer game of knowing (and seeing first hand) that leaders, political parties, movements, wars, and even entire countries will come and go.
That's my problem with them, the House of Wettin and her family the Saxe Coburg Gotha's appear to be serial royals pulling king and queen trick all other Europe.
How do I apply?
The CE doesn't magically create money, it comes from seabed licenses for wind turbines, rental income for property, stuff like that. Which would go straight to the government, if there was no CE
That might cover some of the £249m I'll grant but I feel there might still be a shortfall - where would the rest come from?
FYI I am neither a royalist nor a republican - I just like opinions to be backed up with facts, rather than opinions presented as fact.
Sorry about that. 
So nothing to do with Queenie being a Nazi then ?
I don't think she is - and I don't think it's fair to use a photo of a wee kid to make points about what she's like now.
That might cover some of the £249m I'll grant but I feel there might still be a shortfall - where would the rest come from?
Rest of what? The CE isn't a magic money tree, its income comes from rental of its assets. Seabed licenses, rent for posh shops in Mayfair, whatever. If those assets belonged to the state, that rental income would come to the state.
Anyway back on topic........
[i]"Today we're talking about a highly respected individual who is 90 - and whatever different views people across this country have about the institution, the vast majority share an opinion that Her Majesty has served this country and has overwhelming support with a clear sense of public service and public duty"[/i]
Jeremy Corbyn
Rest of what? The CE isn't a magic money tree, its income comes from rental of its assets. Seabed licenses, rent for posh shops in Mayfair, whatever. If those assets belonged to the state, that rental income would come to the state.
I think you have your argument a little back to front - no offence.
If the CE aren't paying the money to HMG then someone else will be. How would HMG be better off? The only way I see it is to remove the Sovereign Grant ergo the monarchy (?). You would still have the same potential income from the CE as before, but without the financial encumbrance of the Sovereign Grant.
Changing who has possession of the CE, as I see it, won't alter HMG's financial position (as they are already gaining an income from it). The change would come in the removal of the SG.
I'll admit I'm no accountant & the Royal a/c's do appear a little convoluted so I could very well in all honesty have this completely arse about face! 😳
If the CE aren't paying the money to HMG then someone else will be. How would HMG be better off?
No, that's precisely my point. We're not getting an additional £249M because of the Queen, we'd still be getting that income if the assets were owned by the state.
So putting that income on the balance sheet for the monarchy makes no sense.
That's a good point - what's wrong with these people? why are they so pathetically servile?
Imagine instead that they were to be servile to a not so wee, purveyor of blatant untruths and self servant- who should you feel most sorry for??
Tough day for the misery of republicans I guess - being unhappy and in the minority. A minute of reflection for all those who have suffered today at 23:59 perhaps?
Tough day for the misery of republicans I guess - being unhappy and in the minority.
Jeremy Corbyn sounded quite happy.
So am I.
True Ernie - some grace and humour through gritted teeth from Jezza today although only caught the very last bit about gooners and Happy B'day
And you are clearly having some fun ^ Good for you for making a go of it!
Queenie is a game old bird. Can't say I've got a lot of time for her or particularly value what she has done for the nation (i.e. I acknowledge she has been kept relatively busy but what she has been doing I think we'd have got along fine without having been done) but she has done it in a perfectly vanilla sort of way. Which is a shame really as if she had popped her clogs 20 years ago and given the next one a proper run to nause it up public opinion might have swayed more towards a republic of some flavour by now.
I find belonging to a nation that is still (and worse, still wants to be) a kingdom in the 21st century quite embarrassing, but not as embarrassing as it would be to be Autstralian and still having our monarch as your head of state*. That's humiliating.
*I appreciate the exact title queenie holds over Australia is a topic of some debate.
She was born in a year when coal mining was collapsing in a similar way to the way the steel industry now.
Not one of the miners children then or the steel workers now can ever hope to educate themselves and gain qualifications to do the job of Windsor. They could be President if we had one.
That's why Royalty needs to end as a concept. It's not about how nice or horrible your head of state is, it's about whether there is a chance that your poorest and most deprived baby born could ever hope to get to be head of state.
ben: yes, good examples, that is a key part of diplomacy: shaking hands with people that you'd really rather not.
Is that what the Tories refer to as "sharing a platform"?
They could be President if we had one.
Be careful what you wish for - we weren't far away with Jabba John and what a record of delivery and diplomacy he showed. It takes a lot to make Theresa May look competent in delivery - in relative terms obviously, but Jabba did that in spades
Not one of the miners children then or the steel workers now can ever hope to educate themselves and gain qualifications to do the job of Windsor. They could be President if we had one.
Although probably more uni degrees in the average steel worker's family than in the Royal one...
Ch4 news lead with the royal story - the death of Prince - even gritted teeth was too much for John !!!
Prince (Rogers Nelson) had contributed more to the cultural wellbeing of the world than the whole of the Royal Family put together.
Very true deadly, very true...
God save the Queen.
Well she brings in the cash from tourism vs. Her spenditure.
Republican here but thinks it's part of the English culture to have the monarchy?
If we didn't have the Royal Family no one would come and visit. If you hadn't noticed the food is crap, the weather worse and the people are bloody miserable always moaning about how they hate the Royal Family, how bad the food is and how the weather is even worse.
Happy Birthday Ma'am
iTs a veritable trollathon
Eh? Do 'we' lack self esteem so much that we have to spend billions on trying to keep fairytales alive, in the hope people will come to visit our (shitty as you call it) far away land etc...priceless.. (or not as the case is)... 😀
And you are clearly having some fun ^ Good for you for making a go of it!
Threads about the monarchy are always good fun.......if somewhat predictable.
The Queen is a Nazi lol
And lets not forget that tourists wouldn't come to Britain if it wasn't for the Queen.
Eh? Do 'we' lack self esteem so much that we have to spend billions on trying to keep fairytales alive
Billions? No. Even the Republic campaign group said £334 million - though that should be balanced against any gains, which is the hard part.
