[Closed] Got a speeding ticket!

Butcher - ignore the built up area nonsesne!!!!

The village I grew up in for example, is a 30 zone. Come to the end of the village and it opens up to NSL. However, street lighting remains all the way along, [quote/]

If there is a national speed limit sign where it 'opens up to NSL' then this sign overrules the street lighting and there will be repeater signs on the street lighting.

Its quite simple really, but please please please understand being in a built up area or not does not determine the speed limit!

molgirps, in the picture the limit is 30.

It's a 40 of course, from the filename, but there are plenty of streetlights. Not really obvious from the spacing either.

There are repeaters though, I had to crop one out of the picture 🙂

From what I understand though - if there were no repeaters, it would have to be 30, but you woudn't know until you'd driven for long enough to be sure there weren't any. A bit stupid.

but you woudn't know until you'd driven for long enough to be sure there weren't any. A bit stupid.

Correct, so assume its 30. But you would have passed the massive 30 sign indicating the start of a 30.....

But you would have passed the massive 30 sign indicating the start of a 30

Unless you pulled out of one of those houses.

That's a silly example then as there are 40mph signs but you chose to not show them.

If there were no speed limit signs I would assume 30mph and do a maximum of 30.

how is it stupid you would assume a lower limit until you see it's a 40?

Better then people assuming a 30mph is a NSL and then slamming the brakes on at a 30mph repeater or hitting someone.

But you would have passed the massive 30 sign indicating the start of a 30
Unless you pulled out of one of those houses.

In which case

1. You'd know what the speed limit is and
2. You'd see the repeater signs that you cropped.

Butcher - ignore the built up area nonsesne!!!!

I'm trying to. I really am. But the government don't seem to think it's nonsense. The law enforcement people at my speed awareness course didn't seem to think it was nonsense. As much as I'd like to, I can't dismiss it because some dude on a forum thinks it is. 😉

Unless you pulled out of one of those houses.

You would have passed one getting to those houses.

From what I understand though - if there were no repeaters, it would have to be 30, but you woudn't know until you'd driven for long enough to be sure there weren't any. A bit stupid.

not really. assume its a 30 unless you see something telling you it isn't.

you could do with going on a speed awareness course.

Butcher I dont think it is nonsense. I know, categorically 100%, without any doubt at all, that it [u]is[/u] nonsense.

The law enforcement people

[b]5 [/b] pages

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[quote=molgrips ]Unless you pulled out of one of those houses.

😆

[quote=edward2000 ]You would have passed one getting to those houses.

Unless you were born there, or arrived by helicopter (or asleep in somebody else's car, or on a bike from the BW just out of shot, etc.) 😉

you could do with going on a speed awareness course

No, because I wouldn't be driving at 40 on it if I wasn't sure.

My point is that the rules are a bit crap, because you might not know. You shouldn't have to guess or err on the side of caution - it should be clear. How f'in hard is it to put repeater signs up ffs?

ah didums

[quote=molgrips ]
No, because I wouldn't be driving at 40 on it if I wasn't sure.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/got-a-speeding-ticket ]:roll:[/url]

From what I understand though - if there were no repeaters, it would have to be 30, but you woudn't know until you'd driven for long enough to be sure there weren't any. A bit stupid.

How frequently are 40 repeaters required?

How far would you travel, and for how long, at 30mph to cover this distance?

How much longer would it take to travel the entire length of the road at 30, compared to at 40?

No, because I wouldn't be driving at 40 on it if I wasn't sure

please take it to court. please.

All the above discussion is irrelevant, of course, because we're getting closer and closer to 20mph being the default urban speed limit. So, you'll have to travel below 20, unless there are repeaters for 30.

Did you weigh yourself after reading the penalty notice?

Butcher I dont think it is nonsense. I know, categorically 100%, without any doubt at all, that it is nonsense.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I can't take it as truth until I see the evidence.

please take it to court

Why? I was in the wrong, I'll take the punishment like a grown up 🙂

[img] [/img]

Not like that grown up though.

I've driven down that stretch a few times now often at night in the pouring rain and/or snow after leaving the M62.The big 30mph signs painted on the road and 30mph road signs made me slow down and stick at 30 till signs say different.But then again I'm not a very good driver.

It's not a built up area, but I'm totally confused. Street lighting. Houses. What defines a built up area? It's always been regarded a 60 limit for public cars and police anyway.

What you're confusing, I think, is that the legal status of the built-up area (technically "restricted roads") applies [i]unless the road is signed otherwise.[/i]

The relevant bit of law is here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/part/VI

Rule 81 states that a restricted road carries a 30mph limit. 82 defines a restricted road via the lighting as we've discussed, unless the responsible local authority decides to override this in which case it requires signage.

Rule 85(5) explains that in your example, the lights and the absence of signs implies that it's a restricted road as above. So, unless there are signs to the contrary then it would appear as though your locals (and the local plod) all have it wrong and it is in fact a 30mph limit. Which is interesting, I'd have probably interpreted it as 60 too. Gosh.

Going on to Molgrips' example,

Guess the limit here.

Built-up area, so 30mph (check the lighting) [i]in the absence of any other information.[/i] But as he later explained, there are 40mph repeater signs so, of course, that takes precedence.

there are 40mph repeater signs so, of course, that takes precedence.

Ah.. no.. well - not as I understand it. If the lights are close enough then they are [i]not allowed [/i] to put 30mph repeaters up... So therefore the lights must be more than 200 yards apart..? Is that right?

All the above discussion is irrelevant, of course, because we're getting closer and closer to 20mph being the default urban speed limit. So, you'll have to travel below 20, unless there are repeaters for 30.

ACPO have briefed forces not to enforce 20mph limits

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3705446.ece

Hmm.. according to Google Maps the lights are only 125m apart...

No, because I wouldn't be driving at 40 on it if I wasn't sure.

ha ha ha ha ha.

Mol wins the internet.

Thread needs some Glupton for perfection, but it's still pretty ****ing good.

I'm assuming the location is this

[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]

Heading in from the M62, the 30 signs are just after the flyover

[IMG] [/IMG]

Correct me if I'm wrong

No that's right - already posted earlier. Easy to miss in traffic, I thought. One or both of those could easily be shielded by lorries or vans.

Actually it's the second set of signs - after you leave the M62 there are 40 signs, which I saw - then these are about half a mile (ish) later iirc.

molgrips - Member
No that's right - already posted earlier. Easy to miss in traffic, I thought. One or both of those could easily be shielded by lorries or vans.

Easy to miss? You drove over the bloody things 😆

Molgrips, as an officer of the law I hope you have learnt your lesson. You may end up going to prison whereupon you will be abused in the showers by "Mr Big". 😀

No that's right - already posted earlier. Easy to miss in traffic, I thought. One or both of those could easily be shielded by lorries or vans.

In that case you are right, you don't need a speed awareness course, you need glasses.

Yeah these are the ones at the end of the motorway
[IMG] [/IMG]

Then under the flyover are the 30's in my earlier post.

I agree that they are possible to miss in traffic. The reason I'm so interested is I used to use this road daily and couldn't place where you meant.

In that case you are right, you don't need a speed awareness course, you need glasses.

Very easy to say that whilst looking at google streetview images. I was paying attention, and I did miss them - I have no idea why. They may well have been obscured by lorries for all I know. Possibly due to being in the middle lane where neither sign is adjacent. I think there ought to be an overhead sign tbh.

If you can honestly say you've never missed a single sign or object of interest whilst driving* then sure, you're a better driver.

* hint - you can't, no-one can. And you will have missed stuff.

I break the speed limit frequently but in the full knowledge I am doing so. I got caught because I was unaware the traffic light camera I went through had been converted to a gatso. I was fortunate to be offered a course, it was actually quite good.

If you get offered it, I'd go on it. You might learn something.

Commiserations, Molgrips, I don't think many people can say they haven't unwittingly gone too fast due to unfamiliarity with the road and its limits at some time.

I did a refresher course offered by my insurance company to drivers who'd passed their test a long time before and found it useful for the legal/rules update but poor on the driving part. Ironically I got moaned at by the instructor for not making normal progress - I was driving at the 50kmh speed limit on an urban dual carriage way and refused to go faster.

I've resisted as long as I could ....... I tried really hard...... But it's got the better of me .......

When I got caught a while ago you were pretty self righteous with me ......

See that thing that looks like a clock on your dashboard? It tells you how fast you are going. See the little round signs with numbers in..?

I guess not, in your case

Oh the irony. 🙂

..... Oh and more .......

Mol grip;

Grr don't get me started. You talk about a moment's inattention like it doens't matter. That's exactly how people die, every day.

And even more .....

If you aren't capable of keeping to the limit AND watching where you are going, you're not fit to drive.

to be constantly watching the speedo
You don't need to constantly watch it. Just every so often. Can you not control your car's speed properly either?

I'm sure there's a well known phrase for this kind of thing ..... :-).
🙄 😆

Has anyone mentioned children's faces yet (can't be arsed to read all 6 pages)...

Anyway, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

paulmgreen