[Closed] Good speech by David Cameron

Mr Cameron said the independence issue had to be dealt with simply, saying: "We have to settle that question before then going on and asking, I think quite legitimately, is there more that we can do to improve the devolved settlement?
"Are there powers that could be devolved, how can we make the United Kingdom work better?"

Why wait Mr Cameron? If you have some proposals, put them on the table in time for 2014 and let the Scottish public decide what they prefer?

We were promised a "better bill" in 1979 in return for a No vote. That didn't materialise either..

I thought they are supposed to be put to hard labour ...? No? 😆

I'm a bit disappointed in myself to say that I'm bored of it all now. The debate needs more razzamatazz; perhaps Salmond should put Susan Boyle in a glittery St Andrews cross bikini and get that woman DANCING :D. At this rate, Scotland will get independence and anyone not Scottish will just say "Oh".
Shows how fickle and attention deficient the public generally are.

it would be sad if scotland left the union

but with cameron and his cronies in charge who can blame them for wanting to leave

I s****ed as I heard him talk about how much stronger we were becaus eo fthe Union

I could not help but think ..imagine if th eunion he was talking about was European would he asy the same?
It is interesting that many of those who are the most anti the European Union also seem to be most pro the Uk union

What I would say is they like a union where they are the most powerful and get some additionality from little members but not one where they are just another fish in the pond and often get outvoted

Good point that.
I sat through wondering what Welsh & N. Irish ( and channel islands etc.) were thinking.

I'm all for the scotch having independence. But, I believe that if there is a referendum for them to leave, for which only scotch people are able to vote.... and is rejected; then the rest of the brits should have a referendum as to whether they can stay.

put Susan Boyle in a glittery St Andrews cross bikini and get that woman DANCING

I wish you hadn't written that. I've just eaten.

AndyP - Member

I'm all for the scotch having independence. But, I believe that if there is a referendum for them to leave, for which only scotch people are able to vote.... and is rejected; then the rest of the brits should have a referendum as to whether they can stay.

does that go for the falklands as well? 😈

There should be no referendum for the Falklands, just a big fight. See other thread.

No comment yet from Mel Gibson

I was thinking about this on the way in this morning. We often here the Scots' arguments for independence, which are mainly down to self-determination.

The English/Scots unionist counter-arguments are often along the lines of why Scotland couldn't manage as an independent country - 'how are you going to afford it, you're in net reciept of money from Westminster' etc. This is about how independence won't work

Both sets of arguments are essentially about the pros/cons of independence/union on Scotland.

What we rarely here are arguments about the pros/cons of independence/union on the Union as a whole.

put Susan Boyle in a glittery St Andrews cross bikini and get that woman DANCING

I wish you hadn't written that. I've just eaten.

Anyone handy with photoshop? I reckon we could get him to wretch at the very least.

Isn't half the problem about deciding who exactly gets to vote?

Rose tinted 'Get the invaders out' from those scots people living outside of Scotland, slightly more economic realism from those living in Scotland?

MPs are stuffed as well - All the scottish tories have had to come South to get into parliament, Labour would lose a whole bunch of westminster seats if Scotland was independant...

[i]All the scottish tories have had to come South to get into parliament, Labour would lose a whole bunch of westminster seats if Scotland was independant..[/i]

sounds like a win/win to me.

tobyToby - Member

Isn't half the problem about deciding who exactly gets to vote?

No - those living in Scotland and eligible to vote in Scotland. the only question is that its SNP policy to include 16 and 17 yr olds ( lib dem policy as well apart from for this)

[img] http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSBaOOioE37GL8LjGIZZy9XxdA190rk-LaMc6YLHI79t49ijqI10MqB-GmPqw [/img]
Come to daddy my scottish lovely.

TandemJeremy - Member

tobyToby - Member

Isn't half the problem about deciding who exactly gets to vote?

No - those living in Scotland and eligible to vote in Scotland. the only question is that its SNP policy to include 16 and 17 yr olds ( lib dem policy as well apart from for this)

Same as national or local election as the two are different.

[i]Well I am one Englishman here who would like Scotland to stay in the union.
What do you other Brits think?[/i]

I'd prefer to keep, maintain and respect the Union of Great Britain.

However, my Scotish brothers seem hell bent on spliting things up.
I never really understood the intense hatred the Scotish have for me, an English man.

I would hope its not for historical reasons as events which occured undreds of years ago, are now beyond my control.
😉

I could not help but think ..imagine if th eunion he was talking about was European would he asy the same?
It is interesting that many of those who are the most anti the European Union also seem to be most pro the Uk union

Fundamentally different though, no?

[i]I would hope its not for historical reasons as events which occured undreds of years ago, are now beyond my control.[/i]
Jealousy, pure jealousy. They long for skin which isn't blue.

[i]Jealousy, pure jealousy. They long for skin which isn't blue.[/i]

[img] [/img]

isn't he an aussie?

Wallace - quite clear - Those living in Scotland and eligible to vote in Scotland IE no expat votes.

Dunno what yo think the difference is apart from that? something I have missed?

Scotland should stay, if only to keep Wales company in the 'England is not the same thing as Britain' club.

maybe they should start a facebook group?

(there probably already is one...)

be shot by crossbow

Long bows as we're English. Don't the targets need to be close to the cathedral too?

Send a toff in a top hat to convince them to stay in the UK?

Call me Dave has never be so in favour of Unions since they ensured he would be in power for 2 terms by selecting the wrong Miliband.

[i]I'd prefer to keep, maintain and respect the Union of Great Britain.[/i]

Why? Not stirring or trolling, it's a genuine question. As an Englishman living in England, I'm not sure I really care what the Scots do. Not out of malice, I simply don't understand this concept of 'union' that seems to be so important.

Well listen to the speech then and have another think

And please no photoshop magic, I still feel full

TandemJeremy - Member
Wallace - quite clear - Those living in Scotland and eligible to vote in Scotland IE no expat votes.

Dunno what yo think the difference is apart from that? something I have missed?

I believe that voting in local elections and General Elections is different. For example, EU citizens who are not Commonwealth or Irish citizens cannot vote in UK Parliamentary elections but can vote in Local election, although they permanantly live here.

Everytime he opens his mouth on the topic the SNP gain more members and the polls for a yes vote increase.

[i]Why? Not stirring or trolling, it's a genuine question. As an Englishman living in England, I'm not sure I really care what the Scots do. Not out of malice, I simply don't understand this concept of 'union' that seems to be so important.[/i]

[img] [/img]

We're in it together.
Drawing a line on a map in order to separate a people who all speak the same language and live on the same bit of rock.
Just seems silly.
You can refer to yourself as English, Scottish, Welsh.
But lets all stay mates.
Voting to be separate isn't very neighbourly or friendly, imo.
Is all.
I grew up in times when the Union felt better and more positive.
Those spectacles may have a rose tint.
But why so much hate from the Scotts ?.
I've read comments on here and it seems that they really hate the English.
If true. thats everyone's loss, imo.

Its nothing to do with hating the English in large part.

Its about self determination. Its about wanting governments and policies that reflect the will of the people. Its about being able to have the correct policies for the economy of the country.

tories are an irrelevant minority here and Labour are the rightwing party

momentum_2000 - Member
But why so much hate from the Scotts ?.
I've read comments on here and it seems that they really hate the English.

[i]Its nothing to do with hating the English in large part.

Its about self determination. Its about wanting governments and policies that reflect the will of the people. Its about being able to have the correct policies for the economy of the country.

tories are an irrelevant minority here and Labour are the rightwing party[/i]

Not looking for trouble, your rep preceeds you.

However, that post betrays what appears to me as an entrenched perspective, from which a view has been formed.

If you subconsciously accepted that you were part of the family, then you'd already feel part of the process of self determination, as part of our Union, not as a Scot, in Scotland, ie, not an English in England.

Anyway, I've cast my vote.
I'm pro Union of Great Britain and anti break-up.
🙂

Momenteum - I was born in England of English parents. I have a [i]very English [/i]accent. I have lived in Scotland 30+ years now - and I have come across very little enmity at all for many years.

However, that post betrays what appears to me as an entrenched perspective, from which a view has been formed.

I am not really sure what you mean with this. Scotland has a different political consensus to England. Its one of the drivers for independence.

Its nothing to do with hating the English in large part.

momentum_2000 - Member
But why so much hate from the Scotts ?.
I've read comments on here and it seems that they really hate the English.

I can only speak for myself. Have many English friends, lovely people, very friendy. Beautiful country too. But still like my country (as I believe it to be a country) Scotland to have more powers of self determination. Do I want independence - well, not made up my mind.

As I said, love the English people, though have a few issues with the media and the football/sports commentators!

Lets not kid ourselves, there are a minority of Scots with anti English views.

It as nothing to do with hating English. But we're as close culturally and economically to london as we are to the moon. I'd happily take everything north of Birmingham, and call it The Peoples Independent Republic of Northland. It would need to have Scottish access laws.

Let's see. Scotchland is that bit just past Manchester, isn't it?

Everytime he opens his mouth on the topic the SNP gain more members and the polls for a yes vote increase.

Its all a cunning reverse ferret plan.

By "unintentionally" upsetting the Scots and encouraging them to cecede, he gets rid of a load of interferring scottish parliamentary mps, thus condemning Labour to permanent electoral opposition! Win!

He just has to make it sound like he's a one nation tory....

It as nothing to do with hating English. But we're as close culturally and economically to london as we are to the moon. I'd happily take everything north of Birmingham, and call it The Peoples Independent Republic of Northland. It would need to have Scottish access laws.

Druudh, it comes down to Small things like wanting any team that plays against an English one to win, like when Argentinian (see what i did there) wine sales went through the roof in a world cup, the comments made by Scotish people about the English (although it's [i]Positive[/i] racism so it's ok...