Kimbers as we have discussed before Barcelona locals think there are too many tourists anyway. I’d be happy to visit to show my solidarity with the Catalonians. Good friends just showed their feelings on the matter by having their yacht stored there for the winter.
That police trap is hilarious, I hope it’s true 🙂
As for the banks saying they are moving regional “HQ” as a show of solidarity with the Spanish government who after all is their lender of last resort so understandable - well good luck to them. I am sure a run on them in terms of savers / account holders moving their accounts will focus their attention.
I'd doubt the majority of spanish support catalan independence.
This. The vast majority of Spanish are against Catalonian Independence.
As a comparison to Scotland I was against Independence but respected the fact that it was Scottish decsion as the PM and Parliament had sanctioned the Referendum. If Scotland did a UDI referendum I’d be much more likely to think FU as per the Spanish
seosamh77 - MemberI'd doubt the majority of spanish support catalan independence,
Do they support the idea of not smashing people's heads in for wanting to vote? This isn't something that splits along pro or anti independence lines. Next time I went to the polling booth I'd be remembering about the government that thinks votes are inconvenient, regardless of how I felt about Catalonia.
I mean, I understand that many people will think it's fine, because it's the other guy. But many will realise you might be the other guy next time. It's no different from that arsehole in the office that's always talking behind other people's backs- anyone with a clue realises that the arsehole does it about you, too.
you are 100 % right Jamba . the banks are moving their head office BECAUSE people are worried of independance and have started moving their savings out of Catalogna .
evidence here : http://www.lepoint.fr/economie/espagne-decret-pour-faciliter-le-transfert-du-siege-social-des-entreprises-catalanes-06-10-2017-2162594_28.php
sorry in french but I am sure your wife can translate it for you .
Do they support the idea of not smashing people's heads in for wanting to vote?
tbh, I reckon just about half of any country are rabid nationalists when push comes to shove. So I don't think a lot will view it with great horror and are more than willing to go along a certain level of violence(A lot won't obviously, but democracies aren't about consensus). Put it this way, if same thing happened in Scotland, England or Wales wouldn't be rising up at the next GE, or before(very few said boo during the bloody sunday murders for example.). (Also with a separatist movement many times smaller than the parent country, you're at a natural disadvantage there.)
Simple fact is governments will use violence when their sovereignty is threatened, from within or without, it's just default for any country, it's nothing new, and it's not something that's every going to change. Ultimately governments know they will have the support of their nationalist core.. tbh it's probably a vote winner in that respect. A lot will depend how it's all played out in the spanish media, I doubt they are pro-catalan.
cchris2lou - Member
the banks are moving their head office BECAUSE
of political games, if catalonia was sucessful in their UDI efforts (they won't be) the banks would be back.
Bullfighting is still a "Spectacular" in much of Spain and the bullfighters are heroes.
They see lots of things very differently here . . . .
Spanish ( and other banks ) need funding from the ECB , an independant catalogna would be out of the EU , and no more fundings from the ECB .
same thing as Brexit , tariffs on all the goods coming into Barcelona ports etc...
not as simple as it looks .
bump
the catalan president is addressing the parliament. warm words so far.
And he blinked first. Didn't unilaterally declare independence. Makes me wonder how much money the government has put into his secret Swiss bank account...
There were huge Pro Spain marches here over the last few days.
Seem to be a lot of companies ready to relocate if necessary. I guess they'd have to if they are Spanish companies and they suddenly find themselves "not based in Spain" anymore.
The Spanish government are mental. Surely if they suspend the Catalonian gov, there's only so long that the can govern directly before they need to call regional elections. In the meantime all they are doing is fostering bad will, which will ramp up ridiculously so if they send in the heavies again to maintain that rule.
The nationalists get voted back in, this time on the back of a stronger independence mandate. If they stop Pugdemont etc taking part in the elections, then calls of fascists start to looks seriously credible, so they can't do that.. well who know about that actually..
Mental. I could actually see Catalonia becoming independent out of this, pure stupidity on the part of Rajoy et al..
There [i]will[/i] be regional elections and as a result they will be a [i]de facto[/i] independence referendum. It's difficult to see where the Spanish Govt can go from there - refuse to recognise the result? Keep calling regional elections? Ban any political party in support of independence?
Only logical reason I can think of is that maybe the Spanish government are hoping for some kind of violent reaction from the catalans, that would give them the pretext to go hard at them. Long as the Catalans separatists don't bite, they have the moral high ground there. Particularly since Madrid threw the first punch.
Spanish government are hoping for some kind of violent reaction from the catalans
It does seem very provocative. I just can't see how imposing direct rule over one of the most rebellious regions in Europe will end well. This is how civil wars start. That may sound ridiculous in a developed western country but once the genie is out of the bottle it's difficult to put back. At the very least I can see a Northern Ireland scenario developing.
Good friends just showed their feelings on the matter by having their yacht stored there for the winter
#jambagold
😆 dunno how I missed that, brilliant!
don't see why the spanish government doesn't let them leave, then expel Barca Espanyol, Girona and the other teams in lower div from the spanish leagues so they can form their own league of about 10 teams. See how the mood changes after Barca have to play UE Llagostera 4 times a season, no Classico and Barca having to pre qualify for the champions league in July. Hoping that somehow some euro super league will come to their rescue.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/22/spain-calls-on-catalans-to-respect-decision-to-impose-direct-rule ]Well what a surprise.[/url] So if Puigdemont declares independence, what then? Freezing of Catalonian Assets? Arrests of politicians? Sanctions? Blockades? Tanks and troops on the street? The Greek debt problem could look like a walk in the park compared to this.
UDI then...
Shit just got real!
This isn't going to end well. Spanish Parliament was set to end devolved powers (today?) anyway so Catalan’s up the stakes.
At least we will have one country that likes us.
Well fancy that.
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Really, what does anyone expect from a country who's last bout of republicanism lasted all of 2 years (1783-1785) and 5 years (1931-36?)? Considering the latest move and historical context, it's simply a matter of time before they end up with another dictator.
This? Well well... will it stick? Highly unlikely.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116 ]BBCNews Catalonia Independence vote..[/url]
I picked an interesting week to take a holiday in Barcelona. Although, apart from a couple of predictable places around government buildings and universities, it’s business as usual here. Traffic is still flowing, public transport works, and the bartender just bought me another beer by the pool.
Well I'm sitting outside Bar Backstabbers in the town main street sipping my cerveza and waiting on mi pizza.
I've landed in a place where I'm relatively wealthy due to taking advantage of the ludicrous South East UK housing situation and selling my lease for very silly money.
Given that Catalonia provides the Spanish state with a significant amount of tax Euros and a big part of the Alpujarras tax spend is on welfare, I'm wondering when the cracks will start to show in my immediate location.
On the other hand, there may be more tourism development in the wind.
Hasta Luego!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41783238
UK 'won't recognise' Catalan independence.
Not particularly surprising.
Off to Barcelona tonight, wish me luck...
What [i]exactly[/i] are you expecting ?
Pickpockets.
I assume he hopes the airport is still open and the air traffic controllers still working
@seaso did you see the SNP’s responce 😉 .. it wasn’t exactly a condemnation “the people must be heard” ... tricky really these illegal referendums eh
kinda obvious they'd sit on the fence, though after this is done, they'll realise it's not even an option.
I think I put a few of my mates noses out of joint on one of my whatsapp chats for daring to ask why I should take sides in this.. And questioning the idea that support for an IS should automatically equate to other independence movements around the world.
Don't worry they're used to me, we'll no fall out over it! 😆
Please please please can the world just calm down FFS!
jambalaya - Member
@seaso did you see the SNP’s responce .. it wasn’t exactly a condemnation “the people must be heard” ... tricky really these illegal referendums eh
Almost all independence movements are "illegal".
The overlord state always makes it so, then cries "but it's illegal" when people finally declare independence.
About time we did something about those illegal American rebels, eh? They keep embarrassing us every 4th of July.
Spain is a signatory to the UN, so has agreed to this:
[i]2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.[/i]
I wonder how they square that off with their actions against Catalonia.
The overlord state
spain and the uk aren't overlord states. 😆
and the bartender just bought me another beer by the pool.and the bartender just bought me another beer by the pool.
Generous guy. He must be feeling flush.... 😉
I can imagine that Europe remains, but its states become smaller as populist movements grow.
There are calls for Bavaria to once again be an independent state.
South Tyrol has always had an uneasy relationship with Rome.
Like Catalunya, both of these regions provide the bill of tax revenue to the state, essentially propping up the poorer areas.
After the footage that emerged after the referendum, I kind of have all Catalunyans in mind whether they're pro-independance or not.
Yes, seems like a really shity situation for both a country and an area that I love.
I hope it all gets sorted with dialogue, hot heads not required.
Was at a meeting with some Catalan independence supporters today. They were all happy and quietly determined to make this a success in a peaceful manner. Tonight at least they're due a celebration. I wish them success.
Slainte mhor
Tonight at least they're due a celebration.
Celebrate what?
A referendum half the electorate ignored or failing to achieve any meaningful international support?
Until I’d confirmed control of the functions of the state, international legitimacy, and a genuine majority in a referendum I’d be celebrating precisely **** all.
1000 businesses have already moved their hq away from Barcelona .
