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a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.
an oligarchy, a faux "elected" body who collectively attribute all responsibly of blame to their predecessors whilst running the country into the ground and feathering their own nests.
there, fixed it for you.
oh we don't have enough seats? well lets just change the system so we do! (beautifully taken to its next illogical step by GB who was PM even though never elected!)
Woody - what a strange memory you have.
Almost as strange as my laptop multi-posting but it is [b]my[/b] memory of the situation and what I observed while living in Scotland and London during her terms. I was very much in a lower income bracket at the time BTW 😉
You can post all the 'data' you like TJ and I am not for one second saying that what she did was always right or even decent (for want of a better word) but to blame her and all aspects of her government as being largely responsible for all of problems in this Country today is also plainly ridiculous.
Listening to the tories cheering welfare cuts yesterday
Missed that as I was out for most of the day. What particular aspect were they cheering?
So as I'm not approaching senility it appears my views are worthless.
However my views are formed partly from my experiences as a child but more from the experiences of my parents, so I asked their view...
The first thing they said is -
'Who of them have worked in the public sector through out their careers? Which of them have dug into their own pockets during the Thatcher years to ensure that other people's kids had books to write in and pen's to write with?'
aren't you being a tad over-sensitive M-F..? or at best a wee bit pious..? Is she your grandmother..?
Losing a family myself recently perhaps does make me more sensitive but to wish death and joke about dancing on graves just seems a bit immature and doesn't reflect what I always imagined the majority of people on here would be like.
Not like her - fair enough
Hate what she did and stood for - fair enough
Toast her death and joke about dancing on graves - distasteful
(IMO of course).
Do you see her as part of your family m_f? 😕
Do you see her as part of your family m_f?
No. Why?
dancing on graves just seems a bit immature and doesn't reflect what I always imagined the majority of people on here would be like.
oh..
..racist
Fair enough TSW
Bit I also remember kids running around the street with no shoes and my workmate telling me about his Dad buying horse meat from the butcher in Sunderland ........all during Labour eras and not so very long ago, so go figure !
has margaret ever written a autobiography?
if so, has anyone got one i can borrow.
Woody, just out of interest... is that in the last 15 years or the 70's?
I'm not trying to provoke an argument, instead hope to learn from you and others on here.
You can post all the 'data' you like TJ and I am not for one second saying that what she did was always right or even decent (for want of a better word) but to blame her and all aspects of her government as being largely responsible for all of problems in this Country today is also plainly ridiculous.
WHy dont you try and post some data to support you view of the Iron lady as some some sort of collective responsibility cabinet parliamentarian
She suspended the cabinet and used a smaller war cabinet during the Falklands conflict, removing Unions from GCHQ was taken without full cabinet approval , removal of whets etc. It did not even meet every week- Labour were no better.
Perhpas you can cite numerous examples of a ministers overruling Thatcher or her bowing to their collective will rather than them to hers.
Even you call it her governement in your post - says it all really.
and my workmate telling me about his Dad buying horse meat from the butcher in Sunderland
there's a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland?!? how bourgeois!
Woody - Its very clear and obvious. The deliberate creation of a large pool of unemployed has done serious damage to the social fabric of the country. Anyone who says different walks around with their eyes shut
The deliberate starving of public services of funds nearly destroyed those services. They have mainly recovered under labour
When we with north sea oil money did so much worse than other european nations without that massive bounty then yes - she is to blame.
there's a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland
Swindon can only dream.....
there's a boucheries chevalines in Sunderland?!? how bourgeois!
Probably unemployed pit ponies
ton - Memberhas margaret ever written a autobiography?
if so, has anyone got one i can borrow.
borrow? Do you mean burn ton?
😉
hey, don't knock it, cattle mutilation brings in more tourists than crop circles nowadays!
[b]WHy dont you try and post some data to support you view of the Iron lady as some some sort of collective responsibility cabinet parliamentarian[/b]
She suspended the cabinet and used a smaller war cabinet during the Falklands conflict, removing Unions from GCHQ was taken without full cabinet approval , removal of whets etc. It did not even meet every week- Labour were no better.
Perhpas you can cite numerous examples of a ministers overruling Thatcher or her bowing to their collective will rather than them to hers.
Even you call it her governement in your post - says it all really.
No need to look for data - there is video evidence of Thatchers Cabinet Government...
Toast her death and joke about dancing on graves - distasteful
Were it anyone other that her I would agree with you.
hey, don't knock it, cattle mutilation brings in more tourists than crop circles nowadays!
I thought that was the other celebrated new town, Milton Keynes, party trick?
I cant see the link at work what is is it please anyone
Yoss - you called?
The deliberate starving of public services of funds nearly destroyed those services. They have mainly recovered under labour
Oh yes but now we are billions of pounds in debt and suffering hugely for it. Labour spent money we didn't have. They seemed to forget the very simple sum - money in = money out. How any government can spend so much more than it's income baffles me. Things might have seemed good under lie-bour but it was all artificially propped up by massive debts.
I suggest you avoid a career as an accountant TJ. A career as a rose tinter for an optician might be for you.
then yes - she is to blame.
Ok, if you say so TJ, then it must be right, although your denial of other factors and your devotion to the recent [s]conservative[/s] New Labour government does seem to smack of the very blinkered reasoning you so readily accuse others of. <cue yet more 'indisputable' facts and figures re unemployment, growth, NHS funding as a % of GDP etc. etc. yawn>
Quite a remarkable woman in any case, whichever way you look at it, to have achieved all that singlehandedly in a democratic country !
Surf matt - indeed but we still spend less on our public services than Germany, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Norway etc etc
The answer - higher taxation. Fairer taxation. We remain low tax low spend
Remember one of thatchers first steps was massive tax cuts for the rich.
I have no devotion to the recent new labour government.
Were it anyone other that her I would agree with you.
[b]Anyone?[/b]
Surf-Mat - I hope you appreciate the irony of the PR man, who manages to present himself in such a way that people 'stalk' him from other forums to give him sh1t, doling out careers advice! 😆
IMO we probably pay as much in tax as other Euro nations but it's often hidden.
My bro in law and family live in Sweden - massive taxes but amazing public services. You know where you are there - you WILL get taxed to the hilt but your train WILL turn up on time and you WILL get great hospital care.
Bloody cold though.
that's right mat the economic downturn triggered by banks in America had nothing to do with it at all , did not cause an unforseen recession and reduced govt income banks were not overstretched and needed baling out, companies went to the wall etc it was just simply labour govt - the fact every other country suffered a similiar fate is indicative of just how widespread their mismanagement was I assume mat...The fact every other G20 country agreed was persuaded by Broown to do quantative easing and /or spending ot stop a recession [ and the usa still is]getting hold was.
Be right wing if you wish but to blame Labour policies alone for the shortfall created by the economic downturn is a daft thing to say , even for an intellectuall pygmy like you.
cue yet more 'indisputable' facts and figures re unemployment, growth, NHS funding as a % of GDP etc. etc. yawn>
Yes I hate those people who back up what they say with data/evidence. I much prefer people like you who just spout and an opinion, offer no evidence to support it and then mock those who do present evidence to counter your viewpoint.
I have no devotion to the recent new labour government.
Woot! We have agreement on something 😉
intellectuall pygmy
That's in conteniton to be my favourite quote!
Yes I hate those people who back up what they say with data/evidence. I much prefer people like you who just spout and an opinion, offer no evidence to support it and then mock those who do present evidence to counter your viewpoint
I assume this is a troll, given that your previous post implies a complete misunderstanding of the nature of a structural deficit. Given that, I suppose I'd better not rise to it...
So Junkyard, you deny that Labour massively overspent? Didn't build up any reserves when it was booming? Shall we just blame it on America? Shall we ignore or woefully regulated banks too? Was it not Labour's fault that they had a free hand in helping wreck the economy? Did they not bend over backwards to accommodate these banks too?
Insult all you like but your view of the world is a very distorted one. Still at least you can pinch other people's lines and attempt to brush over your shortcomings by appearing to be funny heh?
Surf-Mat - MemberIMO we probably pay as much in tax as other Euro nations but it's often hidden.
No = we pay less. The numbers do not lie. total tax take as % of gdp. No hidden taxes whatever you think they may be
My bro in law and family live in Sweden - massive taxes but amazing public services. You know where you are there - you WILL get taxed to the hilt but your train WILL turn up on time and you WILL get great hospital care.
Of course - they pay significantly more in taxes to afford better service
49% taxation there compared to 39% here
Rememebr with many of these countries you pay for your healthcare on top of your taxation so the figures for tax take do not include the cost of healthcare as it does for the UK
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
More of a retrospective than documentary...
Milton Keynes?!? don't you bring those wannabe upstart roundabout copying nerdowells into this TSY!!
Of course - they pay significantly more in taxes to afford better service49% taxation there compared to 39% here
Rememebr with many of these countries you pay for your healthcare on top of your taxation so the figures for tax take do not include the cost of healthcare as it does for the UK
I'm not arguing here, just comparing.
As for tax - massive fuel tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, etc, etc - we pay a lot more than just income tax and NI.
Can anyone think of a policy or action of her government's that was actually a good idea and did the country some good? I'm certainly struggling.
I know this might be slightly out of context here, but is Thatcher dead yet?
It would appear that GDP growth increased at a lower rate compared to similar countries under Thatcher.GDP growth in the UK increased at a higher rate compared to other countries after Thatcher was gone.
Look at graph again - rare of increase (gradient of line) is greater for UK
surf matt - can you read? Those percentages are the total tax take as a % of GDP - including everything from Vat to council tax to income tax
Milton Keynes - Kicking Swindon's ass in Bovine plastination since 1967.
damo - you look at it again - the gap between the UK and the other countries grew. Growth rates were lower. Indisputable.
can you read?
Yes I can - please point out where you added the GDP information stated?