[Closed] Get your dancing on grave boots ready

The numbers don't lie ernie. Th thatcher years were an economic disaster. Not only was growth lower here than in other countries and our recession deeper and longer but we had north sea oli. What a waste that was. The oil should have meant we had huge money to spend on infrastructure. Instead it was wasted paying benefits for people who could have been working

Remember - tory governments give you higher inflation, lower growth and higher unemployment tha labour ones. this conmdem alliance is going to do the same. Todays spending cuts = a million more unemployed.

looks to me like it only increased once labour came topower - perhaps the miminimum wage that did it ?
C-g I dont think anyone is trying to claim that everything she did was wrong or evil.YShe was a very divisive figure and decimated large swathes of the country that still bear the scars today.I was 9 when she cam to power and do remember the strikes of 83 onwards.
Thatcher was no feminist either hardly any females in the cabinet and none at the end iirc. Respecting her for being a strong woman is like a man respecting Stalin because he was strong or Mussolini for getting the trains to run on time. It in no way ofsets the damage she/they did.One nation disraelli Tories [wets she called them] are ok [relatively]IMHO rabid right wingers are just heartless lovers of money and their self interest rather than the common good.

Thatcher put a lot of people out of work, and replaced these jobs with.... er nothing, no suitable replacement industries to provide growth and long term investment

Labour put all these people back into public service jobs (not the best idea but better than the dole)

the tories are now ditching all these public service jobs and replacing them with.... er.....

can anyone see a pattern forming ???? Not only did Thatcher make some huge mistakes but the idiots who are now in charge are looking to her politics as some kind of answer

I sure ain't no feminist but you will never ever see a Prime Minister with bigger balls than Margaret Thatcher.

Great.

So it can be "fixed with sunshine" ......and ?? ..... what's your point ?

Did I say that couldn't be ?

Maybe you should stop and think before sitting there furiously posting to STW ..... eh ?

Here you go Ernie! Just for you!

"Computer-obsessed children who spend too long indoors and over-anxious parents who slap on excessive sunscreen are contributing to a sharp rise in cases of the bone disease rickets, doctors are warning."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/21/rickets-increase-milk-supplement

The title of this thread is quite nasty.

EXACTLY!

Seems like graciousness and dignity eludes these socialists!

Wishing someone dead is pure miserable nasty hatred. Shame on the OP and it's supporters! (the description "it" is befitting of such low life).

This is a classic case of people showing their true colours!

This attitude is totally contradictory to the values of socialism and is indicative of the control freak tendencies of your typical lefty!

I wouldn't wish death on my worst enemy, let alone a politician.

Sad ****ers!

t would appear that GDP growth increased at a lower rate compared to similar countries under Thatcher.

GDP growth in the UK increased at a higher rate compared to other countries after Thatcher was gone.

Ernie, if UK is the blue line, it's [b]rate[/b] of growth looks higher in the Thatcher years......

Unless the Y axis is actually Rate of Growth itself of course!!

As far as dancing on graves etc, I've never heard of something so ridiculous, especially to someone who benefited the nation as a whole. I wouldn't even consider dancing on Tony's or Gordon's grave, despite them being the worst combo in living memory.

Here you go Ernie! Just for you!

Thank you luked2, I notice your link suggests a solution for rickets via milk.

Here's another :

[url= http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2008/1/drink-your-milk-the-return-of-rickets-other-vitamin-d-deficiencies ]Drink Your Milk! (The Return of Rickets & Other Vitamin D Deficiencies)[/url]

ernie, maybe take italy out of the graph? it's one of the PIGS countries, not comparable to the UK in terms of industry

cinnamon_girl - Member

Just curious like ... who on here was an adult when Margaret Thatcher came to power?

Me I was 18. I remember the summer of 77. I went to the job centre and got a job - they had loads to offer. |I went to a local hospital to ask for a job. Welcomed with open arms.

in 1980 I tried again. No jobs in the job centre and the hospital had a waiting list of hundreds for jobs

I remember her and the damage she did. I remember watching vast swathes of the country loosing Their jobs. I remember HER flogging the family silver for pennies to pay the milkman, I remember double digit inflation along with falling growth.

She was an utter disaster as a pm Destroying entire industries for political dogma, doing huge damage to the social fabric of the country and worst of all wasting the north sea oil money on paying benefits and giving tax cuts to the rich.

I wouldn't wish death on my worst enemy, let alone a politician :-)spongebob your going all touchy feely and sensitive on us

Spongebob It adds more joy to know you will be upset on that day 😉

Spongebob - Member

The title of this thread is quite nasty.

[b]EXACTLY!

Seems like graciousness and dignity eludes these socialists![/b]

I think you'll find that Aracer isn't a socialist. In fact he has claimed on here, that he voted Tory in the May general election. I also believe that he might be a bit of a fan of Mrs T.

I took the thread title as being tongue-in-cheek.

Obviously not all Tories share the same sense of humour.

Just wondering who remembers the strikes, 3 day week, rubbish collections building up etc etc.

3 day week was during the Heath government and the first miners strike. The rest was the winter of discontent in 1979 during the Callaghan government, and was a particularly dire time - that was when the rubbish collected in the streets and the morgues filled up.

After the Vietnam war the communist Khmer Rouge lifted there heads up and looked around. They were penniless and in a country bombed to sh1t. What they saw was something worse. Cambodia. The people there had been subjected to the tyranny of a marxist dictator and were being murdered in their millions.
So they did what no other civilised wealthy nation could be bothered to do. They went into Cambodia, defeated Pol Pot and his troops driving them back into impenetrable jungle.
How did Mrs Thatcher react to this defeat of the most evil man alive during my life time?
Well, she assisted her pal Ronnie Reagan in fighting the commies. They funded and gave arms to Pol Pot.
She gave arms to Pol Pot.
Mrs Thatcher gave arms to Pol Pot.
Luckily, mainly for the survivors of Pol Pot's purges it was to no avail. The communist Vietnamese kept him in place then once everything was under control, left.

Now, my grandfather and my great grandfather were miners in South Yorkshire and Derbyshire and I grew up through the devastation caused but there are some things that should not be forgotten and forgiven.
Perhaps some of the Thatcher apologists on here can explain her rational here to me.

But when she does finally pass away of natural causes after a long life, I shall pause, take time out to remember 4 million that didn't.
Then I shall party like a b@st@rd.
All are welcome to join me, those who normally occupy the expensive seats can even come along and rattle your jewellery in time to the music and dancing. I will even buy a drink in the name of inclusion.

did she also help Regan/CIA flood South Central/Compton with crack to help fund the Contras? or did I dream that?

she also supported racist SA apartheid - opposed sanctions on them- vetoing UN resolutions- and despised the ANC as terrorists and marxists*.She hated nelson Mandela yes the noble peace prize winning man whilst befriending pinochet and polpot

* cameron apologised for this and called it wrong iirc when he met Mandela..just googled it this led her then press secretary Bernard ingham to question whether cameron was actually a conservative
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-apologises-for-thatcher-apartheid-policies-413569.html

the winter of discontent in 1979 during the Callaghan government, and was a particularly dire time - that was when the rubbish collected in the streets

The longest any refuse collectors went on strike was 4 weeks. Many councils now collect every 2 weeks, so 4 weeks is hardly the end of the world. It didn't cause me any hardship or any inconvenience whatsoever. Government policy 1979-97 certainly did. And the strike was fully resolved long before the general election - so it had nothing to do with Thatcher.

And the refuse collectors had a perfectly legitimate case for strike action btw, not that anybody seems to be bothered by that.

I took the thread title as being tongue-in-cheek.

did she also help Regan/CIA flood South Central/Compton with crack to help fund the Contras? or did I dream that?

I think the Yanks funded the Contras on their own - with money they made from selling arms to Iran.
During the Iraq-Iran war the Yanks were supplying arms to both sides.

Don't think Thatcher needed to be involved, although I'm sure she would have approved - she was after all best buddies with Reagan.

congress blocked the funding, initially from arms sales to Iran, in 82, so the CIA allowed the contras to flood south central with crack as their little fund raiser, using crips and bloods as distributors

i bet it was maggie who suggested it. i recall reading somewhere about her support for it at the very least

Many councils now collect every 2 weeks, so 4 weeks is hardly the end of the world.

[img] [/img]

Rio that looks like a pile of rubbish and a woman walking past carrying an umbrella to me.

What does it look like to you .............the end of the world ?

No, it's a picture of the rubbish during the binmens strike. If that's what the 2 weekly collections look like round your way then I guess the cuts have come early for you.

Edit: having just watched The Road on DVD I think maybe it does look a bit like the end of the world.

We still have weekly collections. That big pile of rubbish just looks like there's been a strike on. And so there was - for 4 weeks. It wasn't a permanent thing.

But what's you point......you're challenging my claim that it wasn't the end of the world ?

My original point was that the winter of discontent was a particularly grim time, which you seem to be challenging. Remember, it was this mess that caused the Callaghan minority government to collapse and led to the subsequent conservative victory.

I don't think a 4 week strike by bin men constitutes a "particularly grim time".

I think its fair to say that the Thatcher created recessions and over 3 million unemployed was a particularly grim time though.

Last year Leeds refuse collectors were on strike for 3 months........how would describe that - worst that living homeless in war-torn Baghdad ?

The bin men's strikes were just one visible part of the winter of discontent as I'm sure you know.

If it weren't time for me to go to bed I'd stay and argue a bit more but life is too short.

Apparently the Royal Navy have been put on alert and are practicing for her funeral at the moment.

[img] [/img]

[b]Dance away mother****ers![/b]

The bin men's strikes were just one visible part of the winter of discontent as I'm sure you know.

Yeah, for a period of a few weeks there were quite a lot of people taking industrial action. But it was all completely resolved before Thatcher became PM - she had nothing to do with resolving the dispute. And none of it caused anyone I know any hardship.

However within a couple of years Thatcher had created an extra 1.5 million unemployed people. That caused [b][i]real hardship[/i][/b].... and it was not for just a few weeks. She scrapped all incomes policies and reduced pay (and strikes) by creating the highest levels of unemployment since the Great Depression.

Funny how 1.5 million on strike would have been considered an absolutely intolerable disaster for Britain, but an extra 1.5 million people sitting at home doing bugger all was absolutely fine and tickety-boo.

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for [b]everything[/b] perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word [b]Government[/b] ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important 'players' in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important 'players' in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

I remember when the Conservatives came to power and the whole country was in the shit, literally!

The standard of living, generally, rose considerably during that period and the UK slowly rebuilt its reputation worldwide from that of a Country in which no-one in their right mind would invest. The demise of the coal mining and other industry was a disaster in many ways (not all) but to blame Thatcher entirely for this is ignoring the emergence of other (cheaper) manufacturing bases in the Third World and the rapidly changing face of international commerce. It was inevitable and to maintain a competitive industrial base would have necessitated the employment of even cheaper exploited labour, surely exactly the thing which The Unions were attempting to obviate.

There were other important 'players' in this era and to fail to mention the part played by them eg.Heseltine and Scargill and many others in positions of influence during that period and place the blame solely at the feet of one person is ludicrous.

If Thatcher and the Tories were so bad how did they remain in power till 1997?

Isn't it the electorate that decides how bad the government is, or was it a case that the unemployed weren't allowed to vote?

Bah, this thread is tailing off 🙁

In Birmingham they are adjusting binmens salaries as some of them are on 25-30k a year. So if they strike, good **** off and get a better-paid job then.

(Source, relative in the council). Shes had her salary adjusted due to female/male divide....adjusted DOWN.

I've gradually hated her less over the last 10 years, to the point where, no, I don't wish her ill, and feel a certain amount of compassion for her as a frail old lady. Listening to the tories cheering welfare cuts yesterday brought it all flooding back to me though. Compassionate conservatives my arse.

Bah, this thread is tailing off

surf-mat to the thread please!

I think everyone has hated to the point of exhaustion. Some pretty shameful comments throughout by some members - let's hope none of them lose a family member any time soon ehh?

Woody - what a strange memory you have.

Your standard of living onluy rose significantly if you were one of her favoured ones - favoured with huge tax cuts. It did not rise for the many millions who lost their jobs.

Standard of living also rose slower than in many other countries.

And we had the north sea oil money that other countries did not - other countries who didnt suffer the thathcer recessions ( plural) to anything like the same extent

So - with all that extra money from the north sea the UK still performed far worse than other countries

She was a complete disaster for the country and did damage it will never recover from

And yes - it is her fault - she did not believe in cabinet government and the government was moulded in her image.

Why did they keep winning. Multiple reasons. Patriotic fervour after the Falklands, divided opposition, the vagaries of our electoral system and a damn good propaganda machine

aren't you being a tad over-sensitive M-F..? or at best a wee bit pious..? Is she your grandmother..?

I've never really given the old boot much thought.. I'm too young to have noticed her influence to any great degree and politics generally doesn't really effect my life in any meaningful way..

But if there's a party when the old hag finally gets dragged back to hell.. I'll be there with bells on..

T-J - seconded.
Yes, the reason that she was re-elected was the patriotic madness after the Falklands, a was that her own neglect of diplomacy and aspects of defence allowed to happen.

I can't see why Brown has been castigated for selling off gold cheaply when all our governments have also been keen to sell off N.Sea oil at low prices -it's now 10 times what it was in Mrs T's day.

Seems like graciousness and dignity eludes these socialists!

Wishing someone dead is pure miserable nasty hatred. Shame on the OP and it's supporters! (the description "it" is befitting of such low life).

This is a classic case of people showing their true colours!

This attitude is totally contradictory to the values of socialism and is indicative of the control freak tendencies of your typical lefty!

I wouldn't wish death on my worst enemy, let alone a politician.

Sad ****ers!

I'm no lefty, in the political sense. What this thread shows is the well documented polarisation of views regarding Thatcher and her Government.

Whether her legacy is judged as good or bad will depend on political persuasion (amongst other things) and will never be agreed upon.

What will be agreed upon is that both Thatcher and what she did was incredibly divisive for this Country.

[i]If you draw an angled line between Bristol and the Wash you divide the country into two halves with roughly 27 million people on each side. Between 1980 and 1985, in the southern half they lost [b]103,600 jobs[/b]. In the northern half in the same period they lost [b]1,032,000[/b] jobs, almost exactly ten times as many.[/i]

From Bill Brysons Notes from a Small Island. Hence the ill will...

What I find quite remarkable about this thread (apart from the predictability) is that one person is being held entirely responsible for everything perceived to have been wrong during the Conservative government of that era. The clue should be in the word Government ie. a democratically elected body collectively responsible for running the country.

Blair was (rightly) criticised for his presidential style of Government that by-passed Parliament and to an extent, Cabinet.

But, if you remember those times Woody, you must surely remember the constant cabinet re-shuffles as Thatcher removed anyone who disagreed or showed weakness. As someone posted above, the Conservative "whets" were systematically removed and replaced by "Yes Men". She pioneered "elected dictatorship"