Low inflation. Thats the simple fact. Including housing costs - the numbers are all there.
3 bed semi.
Bought in April 2000 = £70k
Sold in September 2002 = £124K
I guess some prices of electrical goods in the CPI had to seriously deflate a tad to offset this...
I hate to pick holes in one of TandemJeremy's statements because he comes across pretty well, but that one I can't agree with.
It was also a world wide issue affecting many countries
So, was the economic boom and low inflation rates not also a "world wide issue affecting many countries " as well then TJ? or is it a case of take the credit and lay the blame?
Lets look at the Facts now - by early 2000 the UK economic boom was already the longest in history, despite the vast majority of that period being under a Conservative government, indeed GDP had been rising since mid 1992! And guess what, the US economy was a record breaker too, also entering its longest ever period of expansion!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/economic-boom-is-longest-in-uk-history-727514.html
So, down to Zanu-NL policies, or down to being handed the best looking economy ever given to any government entirely due to Tory policies, or just down to global shifts in the money markets - which was it?
ahwiles - Member
Woody - MemberCan I be the first to congratulate chewkw on his most excellent use of the word 'shite'.
is it just me? or does chewkw finally seem to be making some sense?
no offense meant Chewie, your posts are almost always entertaining, and almost always completely baffling.
None taken. All comments welcome good or bad. 
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[i]"The value of your investment can go down as well as up."[/i]
How very dare you. What he posted weren't just facts, they were [b]absolute[/b] facts........I hate to pick holes in one of TandemJeremy's statements
TandemJeremy - MemberNope Si - that is an opinion.
It was also a world wide issue affecting many countries - and was mitigated in the UK by labours policies
nope, it's a western issue, india/china/africa/everywhere else other than europe/america aren't really affected in the same way*.
and labour were at the wheel during the good times, good times fueled by debt and some really very creative banking.
i'm a natural labour voter, i just can't bring myself to vote for them when they're clearly incompetent**.
so i vote green.
(*watch this space, they seem to be making many of the same mistakes 'we' made)
(**they elected the wrong brother, and it's all i can do to stop myself from exploding with rage when i hear the name 'alan johnson')
PJM1974 / woody - so the bank of England is wrong with what it states as inflation? All the various sources of inflation figures are wrong? Or its just you refuse to believe the truth?
Inflation is not a matter of opinion. Its hard facts and the fact is that inflation was low for all of labours rule. You can bluster all you like but that is a fact.
Or do you know better than the bank of England?
inflation was low for the five years preceding and throughout labours rule
TFTFY
1979 13.4
1980 18.0
1981 11.9
1982 8.6
1983 4.6
1984 5.0
1985 6.1
1986 3.4
1987 4.2
1988 4.9
1989 7.8
1990 9.5
1991 5.9
1992 3.7
1993 1.6
1994 2.4
1995 3.5
1996 2.4
1997 3.1
1998 3.4
1999 1.5
2000 3.0
2001 1.8
2002 1.7
2003 2.9
2004 3.0
2005 2.8
2006 3.2
2007 4.3
2008 4.0
2009 ?0.5
inflation was low for all of labours rule
Not strictly true, CPI was low for [i]New Labour[/i]'s rule, and as others have pointed out this was a global phenomenon. If we look at the last [i]Labour[/i] government things are a little different:
1978 8.30%
1977 15.80%
1976 16.50%
1975 24.20%
1974 16.00%
I remember 1975, I was a student on a fixed income. Not a happy time.
Of course, TJ, the low inflationary environment in the UK is nothing to do with Chinese productivity is it? Oh no. That was just an amazing coincidence:
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Ooh! A graph! 🙂
I like graphs, me.
Si, your bikes may be progressive but your mental processes certainly are not........Now I'm no fan of the Labour Party, because unlike you I believe that us ordinary folk deserve more than jingoistic pro-capitalist politics dressed in Mondeoman (or Worcesterwoman) clothing. The reason Labour has always failed to go anywhere is because it is as bound to the system as the Tories and Lib Dems are - ultimately they all believe in relation to the market that 'there is no alternative' (remember Thatcher's famous words.) Hence when the market worldwide screws up, we all have to pay the price. For you to say this is down to 'Labour's ideological policies' gives Labour far more credit than they're due - Her Majesties loyal opposition just wants to manage capitalism not overturn it. They may be inept and they may be cowards and turncoats, but actually they did realise that public spending had to rise to offset the worst effects of a world capitalist crash and indeed in Autumn 08 to keep money coming out of holes in the wall for us all to live. Now that part of the crisis is over, the 'masters of the universe' have gotten bold again and are trying to have us believe that actually their system can save us and the public sector caused the recession, the opposite of the truth. Faced with this, Labour can do nothing - it is impotent because it has been too complicit in its support for bankers, industrialists and the (filthy) rich. Infact it lacks the ideological tools for the job of defending us (even you, dear Si and Stoner and Zulu) from the onslaught of job cutting, wage cutting and scapegoating that Cameron, Osborne and their rich friends around the world intend to visit upon us...........and when they force us to sell our bikes, will we be prepared to fight them then, or will it all be too late???!!!
Been watching this thread with some bemusement, But finally dekadanse comes out with what needed to be said.
Stoner zulu and co, you can defend this lot as much as you like, fools. You mean nothing to a cabinet full of millionaires.
the low inflationary environment in the UK is nothing to do with Chinese productivity is it?
It has everything to do with Chinese productivity. But it's not something which monetarist are keen to admit.
As it's also something which has a limited shelf-life.......the Chinese will not be producing cheap stuff for us, like the Japanese also once did, forever. And the global credit crunch will almost certainly have had the effect of bringing that date further forward. The Chinese learnt a valuable lesson on the perilous consequences of over reliance on unreliable world markets. They dealt with it to a certain extent by inward investment in their infrastructures. They will be now concentrating much more on developing their own internal markets, specially as the political consequences/pressures of their lopsided development (urban/rural) become more apparent. The days of cheap Chinese consumer goods are drawing to a close I fear.
Crikey, so has it gone pear shape yet? where to start? Who to blame ... hmmm ... let's see. Not all gloom & doom but when talking to mates the general impression is:
Financial sector = the loan shark of the world and only few will benefit.
Manufacturing sector = outsource everything to other countries except the guys at the top. We are sophisticated. Design in UK but made in ...
Chemical industry = like the world is not catching up ...
Biotech = like the world is not taking notice.
Farming = supermarkets run them ...
Car industry = owned ... by others. Need more subsidies please.
Aircraft engineering = eeermmmm ... still ok-ish ... I think.
IT = Information superhigher way at Reading silly-con valley? Game industry perhaps but I don't game.
Medicine = I demand Harley Street wage or died you suckers.
Shipbuilding = hmmm ... design in UK made in ...
Petroleum = let's harvest the world so long as we fly the flag we should be ok.
Higher Education = "consumers" demand higher grades so give them.
"Service" industry = it's disposable ...
Entertainment = Oh me god (scream in excitement in tears etc), worship, worship, worship, they are my heroes. WTF! Oh no ... they are artists ... we are cultured, worship, worship worship ...
Work attitude = the computer say NOooooo ...
Export = how dare you. No way that's dirty work.
Import = Yes, we can. It's cheap look at those buggers working for pennies.
So are we turning into cannibals yet that is the question?
PJM1974 / woody - so the bank of England is wrong with what it states as inflation? All the various sources of inflation figures are wrong? Or its just you refuse to believe the truth?
I know how much my own house was bought and sold for. We didn't do any improvements per se, that's simply house price inflation at the time.
I'm trying to work out why I was included in that but as you mentioned it.......PJM1974 / woody - so the bank of England is wrong with what it states as inflation? All the various sources of inflation figures are wrong? Or its just you refuse to believe the truth?
....so you are saying that's a fact, just a wishy washy fact, I much prefer it when you use absolute facts - absolute facts are the only ones I really trust, especially from the Bank of England who are absolutely the the only trustworthy source of absolute facts aren't they?Inflation is not a matter of opinion. Its hard facts and the fact is that inflation was low for all of labours rule. You can bluster all you like but that is a fact.
The fact is however, that while inflation is not a matter of opinion, the method of calculating said inflation can vary according to the opinion and desire of those manipulating the figures, therefore rendering the calculation on a decade by decade basis unreliable.
Are facts the new pledges?
Absolutely 😉
[i]You mean nothing[/i]
Indeed. But I think it's going to bite them on the rear travel. AL doesn't seem to have a plan for the NHS other than unleashing chaos and inviting United, Serco etc in to take over care budgets (with lip service paid to GPs being in the driving seat) and grab the lovely assets. Meanwhile, frontline care is pretty much being overwhelmed. The report in today's [i]Grauniad[/i] about elderly patients being stuck in acute hospital beds (as social care budgets are cut) is bang on - it's snowballing and it's going to make for ugly scenes. If they were attempting a carefully considered transition to a European social insurance system (with - natch - increased investment), I'd have quibbles, but I'd understand the logic. That's not how it's shaping up.
Big society, my arrse.
Edit: CG, I [i]know[/i] you are up to the job. The required quantities of tea and cake will need industrial-scale production, mind. 😀
I've been on for the last 4 nights and can tell you the ugly scenes have already begun.it's snowballing and it's going to make for ugly scenes.
I don't think you can blame this government as the problems have been caused by a multitude of factors and previous changes in the NHS, particularly in primary care, which has had a huge effect on front line care. GP's 'in the driving seat' scares the crap out of me!
I don't think you can blame this government
I agree - entirely - that the problems in primary care/capacity long precede the ConDems - and I wouldn't want to be seen as blaming everything on the coalition. But one thing's for sure, if I was Health Sec, I wouldn't choose this particular moment to unleash the kind of changes that are underway. And if I was a Tory politico, I sure as hell wouldn't waffle on about the bleedin' Big Society and "Creative Chaos" whilst the grim scenes unfold...
that the problems in primary care/capacity long precede the ConDems
Good point the tories managed to create the probs without the libs help last time
Good point the tories managed to create the probs without the libs help last time
if only there'd been an opportunity for someone to implement Junkyard approved policy since 1997....
🙄Junkyard approved policy since 1997
I suppose I should have added a wink but in all honesty I cant be bothered with these threads. No one changes opinions it is just arguing/insulting being snidey with the same people about the same old stuff.
Nothing will change enjoy the "sport" and feeling intelectually superior as you bested me so easily etc
Nothing will change enjoy the "sport" and feeling intelectually superior as you bested me so easily etc
bit sensitive are we?
So when you post an anti-tory comment we can assume you're just being sarcastic from now on can we?
😆
nice goad but not biting ...much 😉
Junkyard - Member........... I cant be bothered with these threads. No one changes opinions it is just arguing/insulting being snidey with the same people about the same old stuff.
Indeed.
TJ - Yes. Including housing costs. i suggest you look at the figures - its indisputable. Its not a matter of opinion. Its a fact.
I must live in a bubble then, because house prices in my town increased by 314% while Labour were in power - FACT!
As the government of the day, who could argue that they didn't have any control over a runaway housing market, or the reckless lending of the banks? If the government didn't have any control, then they were little more than a puppet show! The fact is that they had control, but they got their noses in the trough - more tax receipts -> more spending -> more bribery of the electorate!
Anyone who believes official inflation figures is daft. Housing costs were removed from the equation by the Conservatives before 1997. I can't remember, but I think it might have been Lawson that did that. Shameful! It allowed employers to get away with shortchanging their staff. The true cost of inflation has always been much higher.
As I recall, the first thing Gordon Brown did when he became chancellor was to hand the responsibility of setting interest rates to the Bank of England. We had a sustained period of low interest rates as a result. This fuelled house price inflation, which was no longer in the inflation equation.
Brown also slapped a tax on stocks yields, thus damaging the biggest investors - pension fund managers. Combining this with low interest rates, private pensions were forecast to perform as badly as mortgage endowments. What did people do to protect themselves in their old age? You've guessed it; Buy-to-let. This further added to the property boom.
Labour presided over a period of stability because it spent billions increasing the public sector. When there would have been a natuaral slow down in the economy, thousands got jobs in the public sector, thus skewing the picture. A genuine false economy!
Public confidence was increased by the apparent end to boom and bust Remember Gordon repeatedly proclaiming he'd finally sorted it? He was either arrogant, or stupid (both come to think of it!).
The influx of cheaper and cheaper good from the Far East gave people luxuries they would never otherwise have afforded. Holidays got cheaper as the budget airline business took off. What were Labour doing to stop the burgeoning damage to the environment? Nothing, they took the tax money for their greedy spending plans! These low prices kept the official inflation figures low, but Labour claimed this as their victory. It was nothing more than good luck in reality!
Life for the average person seemingly could be no better. Labour had done it, the magic solution. Stability and prosperity for all, forever. Anyone believing that nonsense was thick!
The government had plenty of warnings from expert economists about the mess we were headed for, but they naively carried, on convinced they were right to keep spending and allowing the public to take on more debt (this is the Labour way afterall). When the banking crisis struck, they were slow to act, costing you and me a fortune (Northern Rock). Darling was spectaculary useless!
I know there are many other layers of complexity in this situation, but those at the helm have a duty of care to steer us through. They failed in grand style!
Another thing that shocked was the lack of protest by the left wingers at Labour's bias against the working man, especially in the north. Prescott was bulldozing houses in the North whilst planning huge house building plans in the south. What did Labour do for the working man anywhere? They presided over the final demise of the steel industry and they continued to sell off public assets for a song (British Nuclear Fuels, BAA etc). They never managed it in time, but were going to flog the Port of Dover to a foreigner - mental!
The difference between Labour and the Conservatives over the selling off public concerns was that the Labour kept the money for it's out of control spending habits and the conservatives offered the public an opportunity to benefit from these. The Conservatives achieved better value for the tax payer, but I personally did not agree with all privatisation, especially allowing the utilities into foreign ownership.
The other shocker was a Labour government prematurely leading the country into a war in the middle east. They patently cowtowed to the Americans, but had no plan what to do after they had won the battle.
Sorry TJ, you are either barking mad, or deluded beyond comprehension if you think Labour did a good job from 1997-2010. Your unwavering highly polarised opinions shows you are not a rational thinker.
I am no big fan of the coallition, the Conservatives, or any party. I think the political system is corrupt. It's not much more than an expensive legitimised kind of bribery. We just can't afford the system as it stands and successive governments have proved that they are all useless! All democracy in this country gives us is the freedom once every 5 years to vote whoever we feel is the least useless party. That is all!
Wow.
😯
As the government of the day, who could argue that they didn't have any control over a runaway housing market, or the reckless lending of the banks?
So you don't believe in the free market, preferring, even if only partially, a planned economy instead ? Well that comes as a surprise to me Spongebob. Because what you generally post on this forum, doesn't give the impression that you are substantially to the left of New Labour.
It's worth pointing out that despite your justifiable criticism of New Labour's failure to control the housing bubble and the banks, the end result was incomparably less severe than what occurred in the early 90s.
Because despite the worst global credit and banking crises in 80 years, repossessions and negative equity never even began to approach the levels which they did in in the early 90s.
Also in the early 90s, due to the crises of confidence in housing, the construction industry experienced the greatest turnaround from profit to loss of any industry in British history. In the recent crises the construction industry actually experienced more growth than any other industry.
The reasons for this are really very simple ............... [i]massive[/i] government intervention !
And the UK was not alone in doing this - by the time George Bush, who was elected as probably the most conservative US president ever, left office, most mortgages in the US were actually owned by the US government. So much for "small" government then.
We got away with the last recession remarkable lightly, which is particularly extraordinary considering the severity of it. This is purely down to the fact that the UK, in common with other governments, was prepared to at least temporarily abandon leaving everything to the free market.
Countries which had traditional conservative governments, such as Iceland, Greece, and Ireland, did not fair better than the UK.
However New Labour are now out of power, and the Old Tories are back in government. Watch as the Tory government's ideologically motivated policies start to kick in. Expect the inevitable, as repossessions start soaring to levels comparable to the early 90s.
Ducks quack, dogs bark, and the Tory governments screw ordinary working people.
😐
Where did the thread go?
