All my 'couply' friends are in good jobs and in a few of them the woman earns more than the man....hasn't stopped any of them (without exception) from grinning smugly once pregnant and declaring that they won't be going back to work.
Which is why I had to break into a sympathetic smile at poor, naive Fin25's post:
She's due to have our first child in 4 months, then she'll have a year off before I quit or massively reduce my less well paid, less important jobs and take over the child rearing while she goes back to her career.
geetee1972 - Member
...So who is going to pay your pension...?
pension?
pretty much irrelevant to anyone young enough to be thinking about kids - already facing a retirement age of 70, and that's only going upwards.
we're working now to pay our parents/grandparents pensions. Who'll pay for our pensions? easy: we're not getting one.
you know when you can't find the right caveman cartoon, yep that is where we are.
we're working now to pay our parents/grandparents pensions. Who'll pay for our pensions? easy: we're not getting one.
It'd still be nice to have young people about to do stuff, though.
You know I was going to pose something vaguely on topic but instead I'd like to apologise for my part in breathing life back into it. Whilst there are some valid points being raised frankly the amount of misogyny is frankly depressing.
Notice the woman can make this choice unilaterally without needing consent from her male partner, a couple of my mates have planned to have children with their wives at pre agreed later dates, only for the woman to decide it's now time and to take herself off the pill without telling her partner....yey for equality!
*troll mode on* This is why men need legal abortion with a time limit, where they can practice their right to choice by financially absolving themselves of childcare in a legal sense *troll mode off* 😈
Also, shouldn't having sex under a false pretense be classed as rape?
The world and the UK are not overpopulated, just over consuming. Reduce the consumption and far more life can be supported (not just humans).
Interestingly, the more equality there is, the lower the birth rates. Women get choice in their reproductive and bodily rights and populations tend to stabilise. Of course, this seems irrelevant when we're talking about couples in middle class professions making handsome salaries in financial services before popping out a sprog and resting on their husbands laurels. I don't doubt this happens, but to pretend it's a trend across the entire population makes no sense and goes against the evidence from many other sources outside of your friends and professional contacts.
The UK (or the world) is bigger than the people you regularly come in to contact with and can't be equated with your own personal life experience. Certainly some of the testimonies I have read and heard I haven't experienced, it does not make them false though, and the sheer number suggests these problems aren't going anywhere fast.
The world and the UK are not overpopulated, just over consuming. Reduce the consumption and far more life can be supported (not just humans).
Considering how idiotic people are, I'd say it'd be better to just sterilize 6 billion of them.
Too many morons on a daily basis as it is...
... and then legalize.... or stop taxing.... drugs, tobacco, booze, driving without a seatbelt, privateering, 18th century style mercenary/private armies, gladiator combat, slavery of thickies so we can launch them into the kuiper belt to mine asteroids... to reduce the tax burden a bit 😈
One of our friends had herself sterilised before she got married without telling her intended.
If someone says this story is bullshit fair enough as I too , find it unbelievable.
Mrs Zip did tell me so I have reason to believe it's true.
Tom_W1987 - Member
Considering how idiotic people are, I'd say it'd be better to just sterilize 6 billion of them...
I have sharpened my secateurs.
What date and time would be convenient for you? 🙂
I have sharpened my secateurs.
What date and time would be convenient for you?
Assuming you have a time machine, I'll meet you in 2012. I'll bring my own TCP and cotton wool.
I have sharpened my secateurs.
My GP is famous in the GP community for having done his own vasectomy:
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1495944.stm ]Doctor performs his own vasectomy[/url]
😯
All my 'couply' friends are in good jobs and in a few of them the woman earns more than the man....hasn't stopped any of them (without exception) from grinning smugly once pregnant and declaring that they won't be going back to work...much to the horror of the male partner as that sinks in, going from being comfortable as a couple on two good salaries to having three of you and only one bread winner.
Another one living in a narrow social circle. I earn more than my husband and am working full time because I can't afford not to. Yes, I've had kids.
Les hommes et les femmes sont égaux. C'est pourquoi 340 profs vont désormais enseigner que les hommes et les femmes sont belles (info TF1).
All my 'couply' friends are in good jobs and in a few of them the woman earns more than the man....hasn't stopped any of them (without exception) from grinning smugly once pregnant and declaring that they won't be going back to work...much to the horror of the male partner as that sinks in, going from being comfortable as a couple on two good salaries to having three of you and only one bread winner.
Just as a counter to that a couple at my work have just had a child, she's been out on maternity for 5 months and is now back. He's now taking the next 4 months of her maternity off. Not sure what they'll do after that but I doubt she's going to be quitting...
I'm old enough to remember when a breadwinner's wage was just that.
Enough to support a spouse and several children.
When it came to wage equality, the baby got chucked out with the bathwater.
It still can, but unlike back in the days when it was common, families now have multiple cars, holidays to go on, mobile phone contracts for everyone and lot's of other 'must have' useless shite to buy.I'm old enough to remember when a breadwinner's wage was just that.Enough to support a spouse and several children.
average wage = £27,195
average house price = £151,672
that is not achievable on one wage never mind the other mouths to feed
Yes it can be done but realistically it cannot for the majority
average wage = £27,195average house price = £151,672
that is not achievable on one wage never mind the other mouths to feed
Yes it can be done but realistically it cannot for the majority
This.
This is the reason I voted Labour this year. It's a complete disenfranchisement of an entire generation that will never be able to accumulate any kind of wealth and will remain in a perpetual tied half light.
This is a return to feudalism and really, it's very wrong.
Well I'll tell that to my brother who seems to manage.that is not achievable on one wage never mind the other mouths to feed
I am astonished disappointed and appalled with the misogynistic attitudes and downright chauvinism on this thread.
I didn't know such attitudes were still so prevalent. Some of you really should be ashamed of yourselves.
for what its worth I know personally no one with these attitudes. Every woman I know works full time and every couple is a true partnership of equals
Well I'll tell that to my brother who seems to manage.
No one on average wage can buy an average house. There is no real debate to be had,you can either count/do maths or you can troll.... the decision is yours.
[img]Every woman I know works full time and every couple is a true partnership of equals
[/img]
It will depend on where you live I suppose, but you [b]can [/b]support a family on one if you wanted to, sure you wont have all the trappings of a modern life but you can get by, which was my original point.No one on average wage can buy an average house. There is no real debate to be had,you can either count/do maths or you can troll.... the decision is yours.
Been reading this thread with interest, as a 54 year old bloke with 4 grown up kids and only having one income (me) I know how financially tough that has been.
Fiscal accountability has always sat with me, we have always shared chores and kids stuff fairly equally. This has never been a shared responsibility relationship.
The point I would like to make is that for a lot of men in my position have neither equality or a quality of life and virtually zero options for example no career break, going back to university, no wandering around the world etc. We are literally shackled to a job for 50+ years and many of us carry an unreasonable burden.
The only thing that annoys me is that my other half has unlimited time and opportunity for education work business whatever? Yet does nothing with that time and opportunity. I once said that I would like a summer off (4 months straight) to just ride a bike, walk, explore whatever? Fact is it won't happen until I have banged in my 50+ years of work.
bencooper - MemberIt'd still be nice to have young people about to do stuff, though.
Maybe*
It just strikes me as just a little selfish to suggest we should have kids so they can work to pay our pensions....
(*welcome young human, to this amazing experience called 'life'. Now if you'll sit down at this desk for the next 70 years you can drag our civilisation one more bored, exhausted, pointless generation towards oblivion. Don't you worry about happiness or enriching satisfaction, just watch the adverts, they'll tell you what to do)
My wife was happy for me to quit my job and take last summer off.
Just saying.
Been reading this thread with interest, as a 54 year old bloke with 4 grown up kids and only having one income (me) I know how financially tough that has been.
It's because of examples such as your that the idea of 'white male priviledge' makes me very angry.
I understand the point you're making and I understand that this does not make your a chuavanist or misogynist.
£140k mortgage (to buy above average house) at 2.5% rate, over a 35 year term is £500/month.
The average salary gives you a take home of £1814, leaving you £1300 to feed/cloth yourself and your other half.
If you have kids, costs are higher but the benefits would cover a good chunk of them. Would you be wealthy? No, but is it manageable? Yes.
This is the reason I voted Labour this year.
Corbyn & McDonnell would/will fold the economy and willfully destroy the lives of anyone with a mortgage in order to 'fix' the disparity. So what happens when they create too many skint and homeless 'victims' for the country's credit card to bail out, and not enough evil rich folk left to squeeze?
Viva la revolution comrades.
you missed the kids out there but 35 year mortgages is a new one on me
Can you really get a mortgage on greater than x 5 of one salary?
genuine question BTW and what sort of deposit do you require?
You also have to remember that 50% of the population do not earn [ and 50% of properties cost more than this as well] this so we have a more serious problems for them? Probably doable up north I doubt you can buy a house for that in the South. A possibility for some but not for the majority and it is only getting worse as house prices outstrip wage increases.
Minimum Income Standard for the UK suggest 2 adults and 2 children (one pre school and one in school) costs £800 a week which would take the 2 adults making £20k a year each, so £40k in total. This is to provide a decent standard of living.
Weekly outgoings 800.17
Food 102.91
Alcohol 9.25
Clothing 46.60
Water rates 10.04
Council Tax 24.51
Household Insurances 2.14
Gas, electricity, etc 18.25
Other housing costs 1.92
Household goods 25.92
Household services 12.73
Childcare 234.56
Personal goods and services 39.80
Travel costs and motoring 85.05
Social and cultural activities 95.44
Rent 91.05
Assuming one adult works and brings in average salary, then you can take away childcare, half the travel costs and cut back on the social and cultural activities and you could support a family on one average wage. Many people do, either through choice or through forced circumstances, so I don't know why people would dispute that. Maybe they live in a different world.
It's because of examples such as your that the idea of 'white male priviledge' makes me very angry.I understand the point you're making and I understand that this does not make your a chuavanist or misogynist.
Being in the lucky and privileged position of being able to support a family one one income? That gives you choices, you chose as a couple I assume that you would work and your wife would not. Given the costs of childcare that is a viable choice for some.
you have not even tried to address my points and here is my orignal point
Yes it can be done but realistically it cannot for the majority
DO you wish to maintain that its possible for one bread winner on average wage to do this in the south?
What % can do this?
etc
£91.05 rent [£392 per month rent]for a family seems a tad unrealistic here in the north never mind anywhere else- DwP prices - which are well known to be an underestimate of the true cost is £110 where i am
I have never said its impossible i have questioned how realistic it is for the majority. My answer remains not very
Where is your North/South border?DO you wish to maintain that its possible for one bread winner on average wage to do this in the south?
I have never said its impossible i have questioned how realistic it is for the majority. My answer remains not very
Population of the UK is 65.64million, therefore the majority do not live in Southern England.For statistical purposes, Southern England is divided into four regions: South West England, South East England, London, and the East of England. Combined, these have a total area of 62,042 square kilometres (23,955 sq mi), and [b]a population of 28 million[/b].
Mikewsmith there was nothing lucky or privileged about my position, lots of hard work, huge personal sacrifice and hours that I would never dare add up got me through.
I hope you are being sarcastic? And as for choices they tend to get overridden by reality.
Mikewsmith there was nothing lucky or privileged about my position, lots of hard work, huge personal sacrifice and hours that I would never dare add up got me through.I hope you are being sarcastic?
Not at all, try doing the same again starting now, you were born at a time when all this was possible with just hard work. Your privileged position is that you did not [b]have[/b] to have both of you working.
By being born a white male you were at an advantage for education, employment, incomes and all of that.
Did you even read his post? You are off your rocker.
Yes I did, it has nothing to do with equality that he has chosen to work and his wife has not. Privilege is that as a white male in the UK it has been easier to progress a career where you choose, more jobs are open without a lot of hard work and barrier pushing.
Being able to bring up 4 kids on one income does seem like a kind of utopian dream these days though, factor in current house prices and wage stagnation and that will be a lot harder.
The point I would like to make is that for a lot of men in my position have neither equality or a quality of life and virtually zero options for example no career break, going back to university, no wandering around the world etc. We are literally shackled to a job for 50+ years and many of us carry an unreasonable burden.The only thing that annoys me is that my other half has unlimited time and opportunity for education work business whatever? Yet does nothing with that time and opportunity. I once said that I would like a summer off (4 months straight) to just ride a bike, walk, explore whatever? Fact is it won't happen until I have banged in my 50+ years of work.
That is an issue between you and your wife, it's nothing to do with equality.
Privileged- my background think Billy Elliott without the dancing - left school in 1979 with one O level, took me 11 years of part time education to get to an Engineering degree (mostly funded by me) outside my day job.
First house cost £35k and I was on £7k a year, borrowed £24k and saved £12k by working 60 hour weeks.
Doing it today? Well my youngest son age 24 has just bought his first house at £180k and he and his other half saved £24k in 3 years to achieve this. Like many things in life it just depends how bad to want it.
I do accept your point on equality, choices were made.
I was never privileged or lucky, although i do know lots of people who are both.
oldmanmtb - Member
Privileged- my background think Billy Elliott without the dancing - left school in 1979 with one O level, took me 11 years of part time education to get to an Engineering degree (mostly funded by me) outside my day job.
And how would the outcome have been if you were born a women?
I would probably rise at 9 have coffee watch Tv have lunch take the dog for a walk and knock up a quick sandwich for my husband who had just put in a 16 hour day...
Sorry you have to read a much earlier comment to get the above.
The woman would have had more chance to do what he did than what he would have to do what she did. But yes, sure, the privilege was all his.And how would the outcome have been if you were born a women?
