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ooh chewkw i do love an assumption, but not as much as i love randomly linking of totally independant assumptions to form a, erm, whats it called when its not a coherent argument, oh yeah, totally random collection of words.
good use of punctuation 3/10
As a new set up I think GB News is brilliant, very brave don't you think so? Good or bad is irrelevant as in individual taste.
Do you think it is a good set up?
I’ve just put it on.
This is appalling. Appalling.
Amateurish, shoddy, ranting
With limited resources they can only do so much by comparison to the public funded BBC etc.
No. It's terrible. Pob had a better set up.
Well if it was my cash funding GB News and pushing my "agenda" i would be considering my options and asking exactly where is my cash being spent?
As it is obviously not a broadcasting quality or content.....
Looks more like rent an idiot.
Someone’s put it on at work. My god this is awful. Less than 10 minutes they’ve mentioned the Union Flag, cancel culture, pride, PC culture, celebrating Britain and Piers.
Just awful.
very brave don’t you think so?
Not in the slightest, its driven by preying on the fear "their" country might not quite he exactly as they want it. Bravery has **** all to do with it.
Less than 10 minutes they’ve mentioned the Union Flag, cancel culture, pride, PC culture, celebrating Britain and Piers.
That may or may not be what the viewers want to see. Those who do will stay and time will tell how many viewers want it. I would expect it to be quite a view within 6 months based on how popular something like the Daily Mail website is. That is the country we live in and GB News is supplying that demand.
Would you be ‘celebrating’ if corporations started to take money away from progressive causes? After all, it’s their right?!
I wouldn't be celebrating but I would question why a corporation who supported let's say an anti-racist cause stopped doing so just as I would question why a corporation would support something like GB News. They can clearly do what they want but I would judge them by it/base any future decision on use of their product by it.
Duplicated.
And your comment about “anti empirical” is just nonsense – there are huge numbers of valid research fields where qualitative, not quantitative data are sought, CRT being but one example.
CRT asserts the idea of white supremacy as a hegemony, that is to say, we live within an epistemic regime or field of power-knowledge (in the language of Foucault). This means that all observations are internal to this hegemony which surrounds us like a bubble. A consequence of this theory is that the existence of white supremacy (as an epistemic regime) cannot be subject to any independent test because any test is internal to white supremacy. CRT is thus, on its own terms, completely sealed shut against criticism from opponents.
Also, if this sounds completely Totalitarian then it is. Activist-Academics alone know your mind, and my mind, better than we know it ourselves. We are simply brainwashed pawns of power according to their theories, set in motion by discourses. Mental slaves to our identity group which is placed on the highest pedestal of importance.
Well, you’re clearly not, then because it isn’t a ‘movement’ so much as as an intersectional academic approach to analysing the effect of race in the legal system and society.
What it is, is widely misunderstood as a result of its inappropriate citation by a number of right wing commentators in the USA (including Trump) to describe any anti racism or pro diversity approaches.
We're arguing over semantics here. An academic approach isn't a movement? Meh. These ideas are gaining widespread currency outside of academia which is the whole point, or was, of developing CRT as a praxis. Anyway, you're right that CRT per se, did just concern racial justice in the US legal system, but these ideas have been developed more broadly (see Robin DiAngelo, for example) into Critical Social Justice.
Anyway, I assert, that any approach under the rubric of anti-racism (which is another way we could describe this) implies this assumption of hegemony since otherwise, it makes no sense to talk about 'dismantling' racist systems. These ideas are really the core of Critical Social Justice; a belief in hegemony with knowledge, culture, language, etc., all being a sublimated form of power, and with everyone except the activists (and those whose 'lived experience' grants them a special power of perception) being dupes whose don't know their own mind.
Clearly, as I said, this Theory can't be subject to any empirical testing. In the guise of post-modernism, these theories were exhausted 25 years ago because they go absolutely nowhere. They are like a brain-in-a-vat argument. However, they have now been repackaged, and pressed into service, in the name of Social/Racial Justice and people cite them as if they were self-evident truth in the name of tackling racism.
We are simply brainwashed
Well, it appears some of us are...
i_scoff_cake
May I give some feedback. I don't know if your argument is good or not because I can't follow it. I need a dictionary to work out what your points are, as a consequence I don't read them and don't know what you're trying to say.
The best arguers and debaters are the ones that get their message across, there's no points for using words the audience doesn't understand.
http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/
Not meant as a personal criticism, but you're losing at least one of your potential audience.
Lived experience of the hegemony.
I’m white. I was born in the UK.
So far, so ‘normal’. Just like ‘everybody else’. It’s the fact that those comfortable words are used about these facts that imply there’s some kind of power to whiteness and my nationality. Hegemony: the position of being the strongest and most powerful and therefore able to control others.
My dad is not English. I have an identifiably non-English name. I spent my childhood apologising for it and being teased and bullied about my identity. I hated being ‘different’, I pleaded to change my name.
It wasn’t until I reached university that I met people who thought it was cool that I could speak a second language and had a second cultural identity. I began to accept myself.
So whenever I hear people challenging anti-racism I wonder what it must be like growing up black in this country. I have a small point of difference, not immediately apparent and yet that was hard to live with and I had to come to terms with it.
My conclusion from this is that as a country you either celebrate difference so everyone feels included from childhood or you let people be bullied and denigrated because they are not the norm.
So yes, I challenge the hegemony because my experience is that it creates a nasty place. And if you won’t listen to people who tell you their experience of it, I’d be interested to know how you justify that.
May I give some feedback. I don’t know if your argument is good or not because I can’t follow it. I need a dictionary to work out what your points are, as a consequence I don’t read them and don’t know what you’re trying to say.
The best arguers and debaters are the ones that get their message across, there’s no points for using words the audience doesn’t understand.
That's one issue with all this scholarship and theory regarding CRT, Critical Social Justice, anti-racism, etc. It is very dense, has its own language and jargon etc. One almost needs to be a scholar to tackle it! Yet, paradoxically, it has gained a lot of currency in the life-world these last few years even though people don't really understand it (as evidenced by this thread!).
Hegemony: the position of being the strongest and most powerful and therefore able to control others.
That's the issue with understanding terms like anti-racism, hegemony, white supremacy, etc., according to ordinary language definitions. They have a much more specific meaning within Theory. Think Marxism and 'class', for example. It doesn't mean 'class' as you are I use the term day to day.
For example, nobody would deny that white people are more often in positions of power in western society, but does that mean that we have a 'white supremacist' hegemony where culture, knowledge, etc., are all a function of power thus trapping us? One needs to think carefully about what it means to say that knowledge is a sublimated form of power.
Agree with theotherjonv.
I’m having to deconstruct each paragraph which for an internet discussion is surely not the approach I_scoff_cake intended?
Your style is like a legal document that feels written with the goal of confusing a non legal minded person.
Not a criticism, just a request for you to write in a style non academic folk can understand.
You can be anti-racist without being an academic (or a pseudo-academic). There is an age old tradition of working class people with below average education challenging racist groups and organisations head on, in this country and others. And long may it continue. The big change of recent years is that far more people now consider it not enough to just “not be racist”, they now see that being anti-racist is required to ferment change. The fight back on this is interesting, because the racists are successfully pulling others into the idea that being anti-racist is a “bad thing”.
Your style is like a legal document that feels written with the goal of confusing a non legal minded person.
Not a criticism, just a request for you to write in a style non academic folk can understand.
That's a fair point, but follow that through since I only copy the jargon and style from these Critical ideas that inform anti-racism, BLM, CRT, etc. If people can't understand it then why are they endorsing it? is this stuff written to confuse and bamboozle? This was a change against the likes of Foucault and the other name-brand continental philosophers who are thee the parents of this stuff; that they wrote impenetrable nonsense. The Daddy of all is, after all, Hegel!
Being anti-racist makes no sense without using some specific Theory of racism; in this instance, it has come to mean that racism is systemic, hegemonic. Hence racism being something that actively needs to be 'dismantled' where one 'does work' day today on the self to purge 'white supremacy'.
One wouldn't need to be anti-racist (an active stance) otherwise since racism could be left to decay and die if it wasn't actively perpetuated by hegemony. We could just instead forget about race.
Has anyone actually attempted to define 'woke'?
I mean, I have a loose idea of what people are referring to when they talk about 'gammon' so I guess is 'woke' sort of the opposite side of the coin? A sort of liberal, loud, obnoxious studenty type? Or is 'woke' more whiny than loud?
I can't help but think when they say 'woke' they mean 'educated, uppity young folk' but that's just my liberal elite snobbery kicking in probably.
Depressingly I think it was Piers Morgan who coined the term on the back of over-blown and exaggerated tales of 'safe spaces' in universities and 'triggered' lefties etc.
It does seem like a very effective start in villainising anyone suspected of being an intellectual or just, you know, reading a book every now and then...
Europe has been "defeated".
Woke is the next "enemy".
GBNews is another platform furthering the Dail Heil right-wing-lite cause via the TV, labelling, dividing and stoking fear in the credulous and gullible. All the audience need to know is that they are "the bad guys" who are "destroying our country".
Has anyone actually attempted to define ‘woke’?
I posted a definition yesterday
Alert, aware of what is going on, or well-informed, especially in racial and other social justice issues
That is what is started as anyway but some think it is about the left trying too hard to show they care.
Now known as GBeebies.
Now one isn’t ‘pure’ unless very strict progressive views are held. Dissent can’t be tolerated.
All the wokies completely lose their shit over GBNews and hold Kopperberg cider- burning parties* in the boycott-booming wake of the emerging anti-woke cleansing.
There must be a video somewhere?
*Our informant clarified that it was actually the cardboard packaging being burned in a ‘mini-protest’ at the beach, while the cider-flavoured liquid itself was angrily consumed as a form of ‘ironic’ counter-protest.
Wokies were not available for comment at time of writing.
🙂
Think Marxism and ‘class’, for example. It doesn’t mean ‘class’ as you are I use the term day to day.
Marx was born over two hundred years ago and wrote in German so there's something lost in translation and evolution of language. But we all know what class means and suggesting it has some more specific meaning to people in "Theory" with a capital looks like an attempt to be be clever like much of your writing on here.
"Class" has a number of meanings:
a group of school students
very good
a group in a social hierarchy
etc.
A social skill is using the language register appropriate to each social situation you find yourself in. This will improve communication and avoid unnecessary conflict. As will not talking down to people as if they're thick when they're not, just irritated by having to use a dictionary to work out you're talking in riddles rather than presnting your opinion, perhaps because what you really want to say would offend. Because having taken the trouble to translate your posts I should be offended and I guess most people would be if they get to grips with what you're saying. I'm not on the defensive about racism and will do what I can to counter it.
🙂
And Andrew Neil is part of the problem with his "gammons" is a racist term comment. Jordan Peterson, Andrew Neil... .
although they have been written out of their own theories now.
Hardly
Without a brake, the woke would lead us into a destructive cultural revolution of great intensity.
Over the course of the last 400 years of bloody exploration, colonialism and enslavement the world has been bent largely towards a particular set of folk's needs and wants, and has of itself been a work of "destructive cultural revolution of great intensity" I hardly think that recognising and acknowledging that despite much equality legislation some in our societies (that profess to be colour blind) are still marginalised amounts to an equal "revolution"
Being anti-racist makes no sense without using some specific Theory of racism; in this instance, it has come to mean that racism is systemic, hegemonic. Hence racism being something that actively needs to be ‘dismantled’ where one ‘does work’ day today on the self to purge ‘white supremacy’.
One wouldn’t need to be anti-racist (an active stance) otherwise since racism could be left to decay and die if it wasn’t actively perpetuated by hegemony. We could just instead forget about race.
'Woke' is just the latest ruse for middle-aged, middle-class, privileged white males to convince themselves that they're actually the ones being persecuted and punished.
Obviously, this continued persecution and punishment involves them now having their own dedicated TV echo chamber, to add to their already substantial media presence, where they can reassure each other of their victimhood and grumble about pretty much everything being so not fair.
Boo hoo... poor me!
Overgrown toddlers, the lot of them. No wonder they all love Boris
CRT asserts the idea of white supremacy as a hegemony
Only if you define "White Supremacy" as narrowly as some Neo and classical Marxists insist on.
A social skill is using the language register appropriate to each social situation you find yourself in. This will improve communication and avoid unnecessary conflict. As will not talking down to people as if they’re thick when they’re not, just irritated by having to use a dictionary to work out you’re talking in riddles rather than presnting your opinion, perhaps because what you really want to say would offend. Because having taken the trouble to translate your posts I should be offended and I guess most people would be if they get to grips with what you’re saying. I’m not on the defensive about racism and will do what I can to counter it.
I simply discussed CRT on its own terms after being told I was ignorant (I'm paraphrasing) for rejecting it.
As you identity, it's jargon-heavy, somewhat impenetrable and re-defines words according to its own Theories. Many people are siding with these ideas but they have no real grasp on them at all!
Its 2021 and they have launched a TV channel that won't stream on Chrome. Seriously? How can that be a thing?
Edit: now got it on Safari, I see they still haven't fixed their echo echo echo issue. Liz Truss currently echoing in front of two mahoosive Union Flags. She is backslapping trade deals with Oz, Mexico, India and New Zealand. Ignoring the fact that we threw away our relationship with the best trading block in the world who happen to be right next door to us.
since I only copy the jargon and style from these Critical ideas that inform anti-racism, BLM, CRT, etc. If people can’t understand it then why are they endorsing it? is this stuff written to confuse and bamboozle?
Conversely, if you can't put your point across in such a way as it can be easily understood, aren't you simply parroting the language you claim to reject without demonstrating any actual understanding?
As previously pointed out, those (like you) citing CRT as some form of grass roots 'movement' are taking academic studies designed to interrogate the systems of society and (incorrectly) applying it to broader social movements.
There have been many examples of academia reframing and interrogating society: gender studies, feminist theory, structuralism (and post-structuralists like Foucault) and so forth. CRT is simply another one of those.
Ignoring the fact that we threw away our relationship with the best trading block in the world who happen to be right next door to us.
You wokies and remoaners can’t move on can you? This is why you’re still moaning while the rest of us real Brits™ wish to move on. This is why GBNews is a soaraway success and the BBC is destined for the dustbin.
Go woke - go broke. You lost the meme war. You lost the culture war. You must love losing to keep on moaning about it.
^ (non-PC emoticon, because Apple is wokie company)
Woke issues aside, why is the sound quality so appalling on GB News?
You wokies and remoaners can’t move on can you? This is why you’re still moaning while the rest of the UK want to move on. This is why GBNews is a soaraway success and the BBC is destined for the dustbin.
This is parody, right?
I suppose woke is being used in the same way as 'do-gooder'. A do-gooder is evidently doing something positive yet the term is usually used pejoratively. It's so childish and stupid though, though.
Interestingly, most young people I've encountered seem more interested in fostering relationships than being seen to be 'cool'. Which is a really positive thing IMO. When I was at school, being cool was very important - and that often brings out the worst in people. I am pleased people are now freer to represent themselves how they like without worrying to quite the same degree about fitting in.
So when mean-spirited gammons* use terms like 'woke' to pick on younger people, I can't help but thinking it's just a pathetic generational thing. It's mostly older men (and occasionally women) are sneering at a younger, brighter, more empathetic future generation.
* Have we decided it's OK to use this term?
This is parody, right?
We are so, so deep in Poe’s Law at this point in our Island’s history.
It holds up to no scrutiny at all being anti-empirical.
It's interesting that in the 21st century there are academics (mostly in the UK and USA) who are determined still to produce empirical evidence that black people have lesser IQ than white people regardless of how many times these ideas are debunked and exposed as being the products of flawed scientific method.
Here you are using the same arguments against a largely social/legal movement
Over the course of the last 400 years of bloody exploration, colonialism and enslavement the world has been bent largely towards a particular set of folk’s needs and wants, and has of itself been a work of “destructive cultural revolution of great intensity” I hardly think that recognising and acknowledging that despite much equality legislation some in our societies (that profess to be colour blind) are still marginalised amounts to an equal “revolution”
That's all rather vague even though it certainly contains a grain of truth.
However, there is no need to take this stance where culture and knowledge are oppressive to people of colour in a total sense (hegemony). Can we not rationally, and based on evidence, improve things piecemeal because no doubt some institutions, policies and practices are oppressive.
There have been many examples of academia reframing and interrogating society: gender studies, feminist theory, structuralism (and post-structuralists like Foucault) and so forth. CRT is simply another one of those.
CRTs point is one of praxis, i.e, to change society. It's not a dry academic concern since it's being used to animate the world outside of the faculty.
Ignoring the fact that we threw away our relationship with the best trading block in the world who happen to be right next door to us
We didn't throw it away, we downgraded it in order to have the opportunity to do other things (good, bad or indifferent).
We're currently in the process of throwing it away now though.
I can’t help but thinking it’s just a pathetic generational thing
This. Basically a lionisation of ageing folks childish stupidity and backwardsness.
I'm expecting GB News to report record audience figures in a months time, from millions of people tuning in, just to find reasons to be angry with it. Let them have their ball, the more you let it anger you, the more you will make it grow.
This is how MailOnline grew into the biggest English language 'News' website in the world, come for the bile, stay for the sidebar of shame etc.
Yep, I haven't watched it and won't be watching it. Just like I don't watch Fox News.
What am I going to benefit from watching it.
Woke issues aside, why is the sound quality so appalling on GB News?
I would imagine in the same way that all the design and visuals for the GB News, Brexit Party, UKIP and anyone right wing is universally ****ing awful! All primary colours, sharp angles and block type in capital letters.
Having worked in the 'creative' industries all my life it's fair to say that, pretty much without exception, it attracts a certain type of person. If you wanted to use a sweeping generalisation to characterise this type of person you could call them a metropolitan liberal. If you wanted to be insulting to them you could call them 'woke'.
I expect that none of the sound engineers, lighting experts, designers or anyone else in these fields would want to touch this particular gig with a barge-pole, for pretty obvious reasons.