I don’t think it’s that deep, most journos are **** useless when it comes to correct terminology
Funny how the “mistakes” are always in the same direction.
These women were uniformed soldiers.
Were they treated as POWs? I very much doubt it.
Were they treated as POWs? I very much doubt it.
What does that actually mean? If a person is a POW, they are a POW, regardless of how their captors treat them. In this case the evidence is that they were well treated.
On the other hand I doubt that the Palestinian hostages were treated humanely because of the weight of eye witness accounts describing their abuse.
And you doubt it because … ?
Mainly because I mis-read your earlier post, apologies.
Mainly because I mis-read your earlier post, apologies.
Nae bother 🙂
I see Trump has said Gaza should be 'cleaned out of palestinians'
i wonder if this was something he promised netenyahu in his one of their many chats?
I see Trump has said Gaza should be ‘cleaned out of palestinians’
As I posted above, it's not new, just more clearly enunciated with Trump's usual delicacy.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-white-house-accused-endorsing-displacement
Great in principle, fraught with risks in the application
Surprisingly the Gulf states seem to have been moving towards the peacekeeper position including some of their own troops although with Palestinian Authority personnel to try and give some legitimacy/local involvement.
I cant see anyone else wanting to stick their citizens in the middle of Hamas and Israel. Neither are exactly known for their ability to compromise and whoever is in the middle will end up hated by both.
Surprisingly the Gulf states seem to have been moving towards the peacekeeper position including some of their own troops although with Palestinian Authority personnel to try and give some legitimacy/local involvement.
I'm not sure working with the PA gives much legitimacy to anyone, given that body's capitulation to Israeli pressure and readiness to act against its own people.
e.g. https://www.newarab.com/news/palestinian-journalist-shot-head-pa-west-bank
I remain fairly open minded on what will happen now that Trump is in the Whitehouse as I don’t attach that much value on what Trump says, which often doesn’t match at all with what he actually does.
Good luck with that. I'd suggest Trump can empathise too well with someone that wants to kick unwanted people out.
Good luck with that. I’d suggest Trump can empathise too well with someone that wants to kick unwanted people out.
Trump will go with whatever suits his ego best. I have seen some suggestions he really wants a Nobel peace prize to match Obama's and solving the Israeli\Palestinian question is definitely worthy of it (personally I would give anyone who managed it permanently (in an ethical way) every Nobel prize including the dodgy economics one).
This makes sense to me based on his ego and interactions with Obama especially about the birther conspiracy.
So question is who can persuade him their tactic is the best way to it?
Good luck with that. I’d suggest Trump can empathise too well with someone that wants to kick unwanted people out.
Good luck with what? Just because Trump says he wants something it doesn't mean that he will get it. Remember when Trump said that he could end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours?
Just because Trump says that he wants Gaza ethnically cleansed it doesn't mean that it will happen, and he of course knows that.
One of the first prerequisites for Gaza to be cleared of Palestinians would be the defeat of Hamas, and yet despite the IDF fighting their longest ever war, and throwing everything at it, they still haven't managed to achieve that. It turns out that reducing rubble into smaller rubble doesn't solve the problem.
Right now with the ceasefire in operation the situation in terms of ethnic cleansing is going backwards for Israel. Which of course explains the outrage expressed by Netanyahu's far-right religious extremist coalition partners.
And for the IDF to resume hostilities would require Israel to overcome all the problems highlighted in the Haaretz article linked above. Even the full backing of Donald Trump won't necessarily motivate IDF reservists to fight or remove the economic, political, and military, costs to Israel of the war.
Right now imo the situation for the people in Gaza doesn't look quite as bleak as it did a few weeks ago, at least it doesn't seem to have become particularly bleaker.
Trump says stuff to frighten people, I wouldn't hang on to his every word. Perhaps he thinks that he will get more concessions out of Hamas if he tries to frighten them? A day or two ago he was threatening his old mate Putin.
This headline made me think of the days of the British Empire when the British army would regularly carry out massacres of the local people just to remind them who was in charge.
Lebanon says 22 killed by Israeli forces as residents try to return home
Btw the Israelis still use "administrative detention", which is a relic from British rule in Palestine, to suppress resistance from the local people.
But not the full sentence eh?
Oh behave Ernie. It's obviously not a genuine assessment of what I take as your viewpoint. No need for a follow up, post something worthwhile about Gaza instead.
Today it's 80 years since Auschwitz was liberated. It's odd to me in 2025 how a nation is still committing genocide and all other nations are just watching as bystanders. 80 years from the holocaust and we have learned nothing.
BBC News at 1 - "Israeli hostage should have been returned on Saturday under terms of ceasefire agreement" - i.e. repeating the Israeli line about something they can't verify.
It’s odd to me in 2025 how a nation is still committing genocide and all other nations are just watching as bystanders.
And in some cases supplying the weapons to carry out the mass killings
Last night Schindler's List was on the telly, I have never seen it but I couldn't stomach much more than a few minutes (I made several attempts) What the Nazis did is completely beyond comprehension to me, watching an reenactment from the comfort of a warm comfortable environment won't add much imo.
But I was intrigued in knowing how many lives Schindler managed to save. So I checked and it was approximately 1,200 An impressive amount but then I compared that figure with the 17,000 children which the IDF has slaughtered in Gaza in the last 15 months.
So much praise for a man who saved the lives of 1,200 in the 1940s, so little condemnation for a government which has directly killed 17,000 children in the last 15 months.
Whatever the reason for turning it off I'd recommend steeling yourself and watching it in its entirety because it is a truly monumental film.
Also the Israeli government is pretty much universally reviled around the world so I'm not sure what this means:
so little condemnation for a government which has directly killed 17,000 children in the last 15 months.
What the Nazis did is completely beyond comprehension to me
What goes to the heart of this incomprehension is how ordinary German people, the majority of a whole nation, could be part of the Holocaust, not just a few deranged individuals. How could such a mindset be instilled in a nation?
Then I recalled the quotes from the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe on the previous page :
......looking at the Israeli curricula, the next graduates of this system would be racist fanatics, extreme and dangerous to themselves and to others.....
This is the product of a very indoctrinated society from the cradle to the grave.
They can see dead Palestinian babies and say ‘Good, very good’. Dehumanisation is part of the Israeli DNA
I guess that when you are brought up in a culture which dehumanises an entire people it becomes relatively easy to murder them on an industrial scale.
Part of the evidence submitted to the International Court of Justice concerning the genocide in Gaza is the dehumanising language used by Israeli politicians.
Also the Israeli government is pretty much universally reviled around the world so I’m not sure what this means:
.
so little condemnation for a government which has directly killed 17,000 children in the last 15 months.
I thought it was self-explanatory but okay, it means that despite being "pretty much universally reviled around the world" the Israeli government gets so little condemnation, if any at all, from Western governments for directly killing 17,000 children.
Obviously there are honourable exceptions such as the government of Ireland but when was the last time you heard any British prime minister or American president directly condemning the Israeli government? They are more likely to sell/give them weapons than condemn them for killing children.
Yes throughout the world Israel is now reviled thanks to the genocide in Gaza, it just goes to show how little Western governments listen the views of their peoples. Exceptions excluded.
One year later and justice is for Hind is finally settled……….nah, only joking - the genocidal murderous ****s get away with it time and time again because……….Israel….collective guilt….hand wringing….
New Channel 4 documentary by Yousef Hammash on tonight at 9pm
Israelis busy reneging on ceasefire agreement - no doubt emboldened by Trump's support.
This is the the West Bank where there is no ceasefire in place because there isn't a "war" going on. So the IDF and armed civilian "settlers" can go around randomly murdering Palestinian men, women, children, including toddlers, with total impunity.
On Saturday evening, a 2-year-old girl was shot and killed by IDF gunfire in a village near Jenin. The army stated that the force fired at a building where, according to intelligence, a gunman was holed up. In the toddler's home, however, there was no gunman barricaded inside, but rather a family eating dinner.
That's from Israel's oldest newspaper btw
No wonder Netanyahu wants to silence it, Haaretz isn't in step with the new genocidal far-right Israel of today
https://twitter.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1884983309341532235?t=koAm_ZtANXmRS02gNwYwIw&s=19
More grueling urban combat for the IDF.
Oh well Trump saves the day, ethnically cleanse Gaza of its entire population and turn it into a holiday resort. Anyone else remember certain prolific posters assuring us that Trump as US president wasn't a worse option than Biden? That's aged well hasn't it.
Anyone else remember certain prolific posters assuring us that Trump as US president wasn’t a worse option than Biden?
You appear to be under the miscomprehension that Gaza was not being actively ethnically cleansed during the Biden presidency, why? The Israelis cleared all the Palestinians out of northern Gaza whilst Joe Biden was US president.
Just because Joe Biden tutted very loudly as he gave Israel weapons to slaughter 47,000 Palestinians, 17,000 of them children, whist they attempted to ethnically cleanse Gaza and the West Bank, it doesn't provide any evidence that Biden helped the Palestinians in any way at all.
Netanyahu and his far-right government did absolutely every single thing they wanted to do when Biden was US president, he didn't stop them from doing anything at all.
Sure for public consumption Biden repeatedly drew red lines which he said the Israelis were not to cross knowing full well that they would simply totally ignore them and he would do sweet **** all about it.
Provide some evidence that things are any worse for the Palestinians now compared to under the Biden presidency. So Trump/the US are going to take over Gaza? Yeah right, even if that is the case it would represent an improvement on Gaza being under the control of IDF terrorists.
Trump wants his Abraham Accord extended to Saudi Arabia, he's desperate for that and his place in history. The Palestinians are going nowhere and Trump will be gone before the next UK general election.
Provide some evidence that things are any worse for the Palestinians now compared to under the Biden presidency.
Isn't that one of those "which toilet shall I use at Glastonbury" questions ?
Provide some evidence that things are any worse for the Palestinians now compared to under the Biden presidency.
Just watch what is going to unfold. Trump's first presidency showed us that he is in favour of Palestinians being pushed off the land, and encouraged settler expansion. He has far fewer restrictions at home this time around (at least 'till the mid-terms), and he'll push much further with this. And fast.
Just because Joe Biden tutted very loudly as he gave Israel weapons to slaughter 47,000 Palestinians
Trump said in his rambling press conference that it would require 1.7-1.8M palestinians to be moved to other countries. Before 7th Oct there was approx 2.1-2.2M residents in Gaza.
2.2M - 1.8M != 47000!
Something doesn't add up.
Also completely agree with Ernie. Biden (and other Western leaders, including our own) did the damage in allowing Netanyahu to reduce Gaza to rubble. Seeing people get all outraged now about the right of Gazans to live in a demolition zone is quite sickening. The damage is already done.
If you ask me Gazans would be much better off living in another country assuming any countries would have them. The Western powers should give up the pretence, get on with their plan of ethnic cleansing, and then live with the guilt, hypocrisy and long term consequences of that.
If you ask me Gazans would be much better off living in another country assuming any countries would have them. The Western powers should give up the pretence, get on with their plan of ethnic cleansing, and then live with the guilt, hypocrisy and long term consequences of that.
I said this a while ago (on here, I think). As a Gazan is it worth sacrificing your life and your kids' lives to a notion of "homeland'? For me it would not be. The US is what it is, at this point, and it's not realistic to add your drop of water in the hope that a tsunami sweeps it away.
I believe part of Netenyahu's extended visit to Washington is to secure a $1 billion dollar arms sale. Google suggests 4700 x 1000lb bombs and armoured bulldozers are in the mix.
I've no idea if things are going to improve or get worse, I can see potential for both outcomes. Regardless of how awful the previous guy was for Palestinians. The sale being paid for out of the US aid package to Israel.
I’ve no idea if things are going to improve or get worse
I doubt they can get much worse. The hypocrisy of western commentators debating the rights and wrongs of what comes next is quite astounding. It very much looks to me that many (and I'm talking about the media and establishment commentators rather than anyone on here) were happy to ignore the genocide being committed while Biden was president, but now its on Trump's watch they suddenly appear to be very concerned about what happens to the Gazans.
can strongly suggest watching Channel4 news…
Like anyone watches C4 news! 🙂
If you ask me Gazans would be much better off living in another country assuming any countries would have them.
...
The hypocrisy of western commentators debating the rights and wrongs of what comes next is quite astounding
You think I'm excluding myself from this? We're all complicit, every single one of us. You know all those questions asked after WWII about how the German public could allow the holocaust to happen right under their noses? We'll be asking the same questions of ourselves in the not too distant future.
Just watch what is going to unfold.
I am watching in anticipation waiting to see if Trump rebuilds Gaza as an American-Israeli holiday seaside resort before or after he has invaded Canada, Greenland, and Panama.
There is of course the little problem that Hamas hasn't been defeated, the Palestinians have made it clear that they have no wish to go anywhere, and Egypt and Jordan have categorically dismissed Trump's suggestion that they should accept the Gazans. Plus the problem that Trump only has 4 years to achieve all his aims
I am watching in anticipation waiting to see if Trump rebuilds Gaza as an American-Israeli holiday seaside resort before or after he has invaded Canada, Greenland, and Panama.
The US is going to need a larger flag to fit all the additional stars. 🙁
surely no one had
"Trump sends the US military in to ethnically cleanse Gaza and turn it into a giant Trump owned elite golf resort "
on their 2025 bingo list , not least all those Arab voters that voted for Trump, thinking he'd be on their side ,?
what trump has done though has made this a discussion, eg 10 years ago Brexit was a fringe view of a few far right nutters ....... and her we are!
not least all those Arab voters that voted for Trump, thinking he’d be on their side ,?
I don't think that it was ever a case of that at all, and much more a case of knowing that Joe Biden would never be on the side of Palestinians.
A perfectly good assessment imo. Trump is far more likely to screw Israel than Biden ever was. Trump's number one priority isn't being matey with Netanyahu but striking a deal with the Saudis, and the Saudis have made their position clear. This morning :
Meanwhile, the Saudi Arabian foreign ministry says it "rejects any attempts to displace the Palestinians from their land". It adds it would not establish ties with Israel without the creation of a Palestinian state.
I have no idea anyone should still hang on to the idea that things were somehow better for the Palestinians when Joe Biden was US president.
I have no idea anyone should still hang on to the idea that things were somehow better for the Palestinians when Joe Biden was US president.
fair point, Bidens plan for a giant liesure complex displacing them from their ancestral homelands didnt even include Trump Tower rooftop infinity pool
maybe trump will give rach gazan a free wristband for pool access on Tuesdays and bus them over from their new permanent homes in a Lebanese/syrian refugee camp
Well okay you obviously want to turn it into some sort of hilarious joke but what I am seeing in the Muslim dominated WhatsApp groups in support of Palestine is an astonishing lack of interest in Trump's latest attention-seeking stunt. One of the local Palestine Solidarity Campaign officers, a Palestinian herself, has posted a comment which quite rightly ridicules Trump.
And IME they tend to be massively pessimistic about the situation in Occupied Palestine. Since Joe Biden's departure and the return of Palestinians to northern Gaza, plus the overwhelming evidence that the Palestinian resistance are nowhere near defeated, their spirits seem to be not quite as low as they were a few weeks ago.
Well okay you obviously want to turn it into some sort of hilarious joke but what I am seeing in the Muslim dominated WhatsApp groups in support of Palestine is an astonishing lack of interest in Trump’s latest attention-seeking stunt. One of the local Palestine Solidarity Campaign officers, a Palestinian herself, has posted a comment which quite rightly ridicules Trump.
????
his plans for the West Bank are coming next week so Im sure that there will be plenty more ridiculing to be done, I doubt it will be a full ethnic cleanse like his GAZA plan- , but handing complete control to Israel from the PA doesnt seem too unlikely ?
????
Sorry you were ridiculing Trump, not the suggestion that so far at least there is no evidence that life was any better for the Palestinians when Joe Biden was US president? Well it wasn't obvious from your comment.
I find it astonishing that some people desperately hang on to the notion that Biden somehow reigned in the Israeli government.
I also find it astonishing that some people appear to be unaware of how deep the crisis is for Israel. What Israel wants and what Israel gets are two totally separate things, and the United States President does not have some sort of magic wand.
Israel wanted to defeat Hamas, what Israel actually got was a Hamas who remain undefeated and according to Antony Blinken the former United States Secretary of State has replaced all their losses.
