MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
But civil war? That’s just a fantasy unless you can provide any evidence.
You believe that because Netanyahu said so?
Israel's Netanyahu rules out civil war as mass protests divide country over judicial reform
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/01/israels-netanyahu-rules-out-civil-war-after-mass-protests.html
He was responding to the widespread claims that Israel was getting close to civil war. It wasn't simply people "exercising their rights to protest", it included open mutiny by reservists who publicly claimed that they were refusing to serve in the military.
I’m not sure that counts as “mass exodus”. I wonder what drove people to leave last year…?
The country descending into fascism apparently:
Israelis seek opportunities abroad amid unrest at home
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-66474153
Relocation experts say many of those looking to emigrate are highly-trained professionals
And that was before the events of October 8. The exodus has understandably increased. According to a poll 80% of Israelis abroad say they won't be returning. The Israeli government won't give precise figures but based on the figures of people entering and leaving via airports it has been estimated that half a million have already left with a possible total 2 million in the near future. Israeli ministers are publicly begging people not to leave (ask me for evidence)
most of Israel’s energy needs come from coal
Nope.
That one I will give you, it was a sloppy comment. Most of Israel's energy needs come from fossil fuel but not from coal anymore, although until recently it did. In 2012 60% of Israel's electricity needs came from coal but that was reduced to 20% by 2022. I should have checked my facts, I usually do!
Anyhow good luck if you think that Israel's main coal provider stopping all supplies won't hurt when 20% of electricity production is dependent on it.
And as for the Israeli economy not being in dire straits I am not even going to bother arguing with that, the evidence is overwhelming and I'm not going to add anything.
Delusion is an Israeli trait which you seem to have picked up.
Delusion is an Israeli trait which you seem to have picked up.
Crossed the line, I think, with this.
That's a saying that has been used many times and widely reported on by online reporting into the state of netanyahu and his government
Crossed what line? In my opinion Flyingox is deluding himself if he truly believes that the Israeli economy is not in dire straits and if he doesn't believe that there is now an exodus issue. It is a perfectly valid opinion.
And yes it is not entirely surprising if he is living in Israel and is exposed to endless Israeli government propaganda, I would likely start believing it too. I think Flyingox is back in Israel, he said he was on Oct 7 but then claimed to be back in the UK and later back in Israel.
And yes I consider Israel to be delusionary society. I have no doubt that most Israeli deluded themselves and believed that Hamas could be defeated, nearly a year on and they still haven't been. The stated purpose of the incursion into Gaza was to defeat Hamas and bring the captive Israelis home. They have failed on both counts as any reasonable person could have foreseen.
Here is an example of someone who spends too much time in Israel and regurgitates the far-right government's propaganda which she appears to genuinely believe:
Obviously not all Israelis are gullible, plenty understand that the country is screwed. A quarter would leave Israel if they could:
One in Four Israeli Jews Would Leave Israel to Another Country if They Could, New Survey Finds
And many currently are:
Looking to escape war at home, Israelis seek refugee status in Portugal
This probably has something to do with it:
Israel’s economy in grave danger as Gaza war drags on, economists warn
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-economy-in-grave-danger-as-gaza-war-drags-on-economists-warn/
Crossed what line? In my opinion Flyingox is deluding himself if he truly believes that the Israeli economy is not in dire straits and if he doesn’t believe that there is now an exodus issue. It is a perfectly valid opinion.
That's not what you said. You made a fairly offensive racial slur.
Seems like C4 news/Secunder Karmani are the only news outlet that’s been active in attempting to show what’s going on with the settler violence and yet more land grabs
That’s not what you said. You made a fairly offensive racial slur.
That "delusion is an Israeli trait"? Are you actually serious?* There is nothing racial about that comment, firstly 'Israeli' isn't a race and secondly the idea that Hamas can be defeated and everything afterwards will be all hunky dory is totally delusional stuff imo.
The zionist project is collapsing, it is facing its greatest crisis in nearly 80 years. Going into Gaza and slaughtering thousands of Palestinians isn't going to solve any problems, in fact it will make the situation far worse for Israel.
I did point out that although the majority appear to be delusional a large portion of Israeli society doesn't seem to be - namely the 25% who according to an Israeli newspaper have said that they would rather live somewhere other than Israel.
So yes I very much believe that Israelis are as a whole delusional. From those who believe that Hamas can be defeated to those who believe that they don't even need to fight because God will step in and save them.
In fact it is indeed this inability to grasp reality that will imo contribute so much to the eventual demise of the failed zionist experiment.
* I realised after asking that question that of course you are serious - I criticised Israelis and Israeli society. Anyone who criticises israelis and Israeli society is automatically accused of being racist. Anyone and everyone, right up to the United Nations and the International Court of Justice.
The mask is starting to slip
There has never been any mask. I have always been completely honest and open in my staunch opposition to zionism and the Israeli apartheid state.
I have never attempted to hide it.
As fierce opponents of the PLO which controls the civilian administration in Occupied West Bank Hamas has never had any significant presence in that part of Palestine, and certainly no activity.
Yet despite that the Israelis have killed over 650 Palestinians in Occupied West Bank since they launched their slaughter on Gaza.
And now the IDF has launched a major military offensive against at least four West Bank cities and refugee camps in what they call a "counterterrorism" operation against Hamas to dismantle their 'terror infrastructures".
So nearly a year after Netanyahu announced that the IDF would destroy Hamas in Gaza and return captive Israelis his regime is now publicly claiming that Hamas's influence has spread to the Occupied West Bank.
He could of course be lying, it is after all what zionists do, and he very probably is. But it does reflect just how desperate the situation is for them.
The idea that there can ever be peace without justice is delusionary, although Netanyahu undoubtedly knows that.
his regime is now publicly claiming that Hamas’s influence has spread to the Occupied West Bank.
I'm sure it has. As someone commented on the (I think?) same C4 news item referenced above, support for militancy is an inevitable result of the brutal occupation.
The Houthis attacked the Greek-flagged oil products tanker Sounion in the Red Sea between Yemen and Eritrea last week.
The Houthis disabled the vessel, which was abandoned by the crew, and then returned to deliberately destroy it, which is a change of tactics. Tugs sent out to the vessel have been threatened by the Houthis
The Pentagon believes that the vessel is now leaking oil products into the Red Sea, which could pose a huge environmental disaster, four-times that of the Exxon Valdez for scale. This will massively effect communities that rely on the sea for their livelihood https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9wjx5ndnvdo
I said much earlier on this thread that an environmental disaster was a danger of their attacks. I didn't anticipate that they'd deliberately set additional charges to ensure a calamity
And now the IDF has launched a major military offensive against at least four West Bank cities and refugee camps in what they call a “counterterrorism” operation against Hamas to dismantle their ‘terror infrastructures”.
So nearly a year after Netanyahu announced that the IDF would destroy Hamas in Gaza and return captive Israelis his regime is now publicly claiming that Hamas’s influence has spread to the Occupied West Bank.
I thought the recent raids were aimed at Iran-backed terrorist infrastructure, whoever they are locally, not (just) Hamas? And mainly in response to the recent suicide bombing, done jointly by Hamas and Islamic Jihad (who are in the West Bank).
Here's the US National Intelligence office stating that Hamas has a presence in the West Bank (report dated 2014) https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/hamas.html
Regardless of what Israel is doing, your portrayal of it is misleading at best.
Another thinly veiled accusation of anti-semitism. I’m beginning to spot a pattern …
I'm not the one throwing around derogatory generalisations about an entire nation and then doubling down, but crack on with your pattern spotting I guess.
I’m not the one throwing around derogatory generalisations about an entire nation and then doubling down, but crack on with your pattern spotting I guess.
That's the thing about "democracy" - it provides a dataset which allows you to make generalisations with a certain degree of validity. What is actually derogatory is accusing someone of racism without foundation.
But while you're quibbling about words, the Israelis have killed a few more Palestinians.
I’m not the one throwing around derogatory generalisations about an entire nation
You should check out some of what some of the threads on stw say about Americans, Russians, and of course even the British population. If you want sweeping and derogatory generalisations.
And yes, I am sticking to my comment that Israelis are delusionary, well the majority are imo, it would appear that at least 25% have smelt the coffee.
Which as I repeat is hardly surprising considering the lies they are constantly fed on a daily basis by far-right politicians.
So now the IDF is conducting operations in the West Bank.
At what point is it OK to start calling this a genocide?
At what point is it OK to start calling this a genocide?
Depends on what side of the [s]fence[/s] wall you’re looking at
I thought the recent raids were aimed at Iran-backed terrorist infrastructure, whoever they are locally, not (just) Hamas?
Firstly this are more than just "raids", this is a large-scale military operation. Secondly it is the PLO which operates in Occupied West Bank not Hamas.
The PLO is a secular organisation whose largest faction Fatah is affiliated to the Party of European Socialists, the same as the UK Labour Party, although zionists might well call it a terrorist organisation. The clerics of the theocratic regime in Tehran do not support the secular PLO.
The Iranian connection claim made by Netanyahu's government is a smokescreen. The stated aim of neo-fascist ministers in the current far-right Israeli government is the eventual full annexation of Occupied West Bank and its ethnic cleansing.
The current military operations by the IDF in Occupied West Bank should be seen in that context. As indeed should the deaths of over 650 West Bank Palestinian in the last 11 months by the IDF and their Israeli terrorist partners, aka as "armed settlers". Along with the huge expansion of illegal settlements (a war crime under the Geneva Convention) what we are witnessing is simply the territorial growth of Israel as it seeks further lebensraum.
Along with the huge expansion of illegal settlements (a war crime under the Geneva Convention) what we are witnessing is simply the territorial growth of Israel as it seeks further lebensraum.
Another 20,000 homes passed for building in the West Bank since Oct 7th
what we are witnessing is simply the territorial growth of Israel as it seeks further lebensraum
I'm sure you could make this point without reaching for the German.
It is a very specific term coined by Germans to describe a specific concept. I would also use the term blitzkrieg if it was appropriate. Or coup d'etat, or other terms with foreign origins.
It is a very specific term coined by Germans to describe a specific concept. I would also use the term blitzkrieg if it was appropriate. Or coup d’etat, or other terms with foreign origins.
Of course. But used by you with full knowledge of who coined it and when, and that people would notice that connection here. Plausible deniability is all very well, but it's still trolling. I daresay you could've found some other way of getting the point across.
"Hmm, how can I compare Israel to the Nazis without actually saying so? Aha! I'm not racist, but..."
(NB: I don't think you are racist. But I do think you push the limits sometimes and have such a strong hatred of Israel that it blinds you to other possibilities or explanations of things. It's possible to have different points of view without excusing what Israel's doing, and to believe that it might have good/valid reasons for SOME acts, even if it goes about them in the wrong way.)
Seeing as everyone seems to wants to talk about the Nazi's, have we done Haj Amin al-Husseini yet? .
Nice attempt inkster but Al-Husseini has been dead for decades and is irrelevant to the conflict, how about we talk about Ben-Gvir instead as his position in the current government is actually relevant to what is going on in Gaza and the West Bank land grabs.
On the day that a number of European countries recognised a Palestinian state, Ben-Gvir entered the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound and said "We will not allow any surrender that would even include a declaration of a Palestinian state" and that the mosque site belongs "only to the State of Israel".
Noted Israeli sociologist Eva Illouz has said Ben-Gvir represents "Jewish fascism".
But used by you with full knowledge of who coined it
I wonder if you know who coined it ? It was a commonly used term in German politics in the 1890s and continued right up until the end of WW2. It was used in the context of Greater Germany and it is totally appropriate to use it in the context of Greater Israel.
You do not deny that the Tel Aviv government has a policy of expanding Israel's borders do you?
The comparison with pre-1945 Germany is totally reasonable. And if you are suggesting that I am making comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany of course I am and of course there are some obvious comparisons.
For a start I have referred to current Israeli government ministers as fascist. The IDF uses some tactics similar to those used by the nazis in occupied territories, including collective punishments, rounding up and incarcerating innocent civilians, and withholding essential necessities such as food. Plus of course zionists, like the nazis, attach far less values to the lives of those whose lands they have invaded, as you would expect from people who consider themselves to be superior.
Plus of course lebensraum, a term used to describe an expansionist policy which you apparently feel the English term "living space" would be more appropriate. Do you say "lighting war" instead blitzkrieg?
It is both legitimate and necessary to draw attention to the similarities between German fascists and contemporary Israeli fascists, something which anti-zionist Jews are particularly keen to do.
The obvious example of that is Gerald Kaufman who famously made a direct comparison between modern day Israel and nazi Germany in a speech he made from the floor of the House of Commons. Kaufman lost family in the holocaust including his grandmother so this was not a man who made the comparison lightly.
I have been on something like 15 or 16 national demonstrations in support of Palestine in the last 11 months, every single one of them has had a significant Jewish presence. By far the most reoccurring reference on the banners and placards of those marching with the Jewish Bloc is the reference to the holocaust.
It was a commonly used term in German politics in the 1890s and continued right up until the end of WW2
Why do you think that the term went out of use with the end of WW2? I think that you're straying close to the edge
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/a-definition-of-antisemitism
Please stop, I find it offensive
For anyone who hasn't already seen it here is a short speech by Gerald Kaufman he makes a direct comparison between modern Israel and nazi Germany
Why do you think that the term went out of use with the end of WW2?
Because the whole concept of having a greater whatever country and the argument of needing living space/lebensraum went out of fashion after WW2?
The policy of greater living space is still very popular with zionists though. Have you seen what they are doing right now in Occupied West Bank?
Apparently Israel is still too small, despite relentless new territorial claims.
Please stop, I find it offensive
Really? What I find offensive is quibbling about words while people are being shot, bombed, starved, imprisoned, tortured, their houses, schools and hospitals destroyed.
Because the whole concept of having a greater whatever country and the argument of needing living space/******** went out of fashion after WW2?
How about the end of the Nazi era, war crimes trials, etc.
I cant report the post because it's yet another feature that doesn't work here, hopefully the mods will have a look ( @Drac )
Really? What I find offensive is quibbling about words while people are being shot, bombed, starved, imprisoned, tortured, their houses, schools and hospitals destroyed.
Posted 7 minutes ago
Yeah, call it for what is is and appears to be - Genocide.
TBH I've always found that definition of antisemitism a bit weird, and I'm Jewish. If someone's behaving like a Nazi, then they are behaving like a Nazi, whoever they are. Although on the other hand people do tend to jump towards Nazis as a comparison (as opposed to any other fascist/oppressor throughout history), precisely because of the Jewish history with the Holocaust. Therefore equating Israel with Jews. Which again is somewhat understandable, but can also be actual anti-semitism... It's a complicated minefield. I'm starting to ramble...
Anyway, it's nothing to do with lebensraum. Unless you think Israel wants to start taking over chunks f neighbouring countries. It's a fight over who owns the historic land of Israel, which includes the West Bank and Gaza. Granted the definition of "historic" might be up for debate but Israel's not really expansionist in the same way as (for a totally random example) Nazi Germany was.
I cant report the post because it’s yet another feature that doesn’t work here, hopefully the mods will have a look ( @Drac )
What do you want to report, that someone has made a reference to nazi Germany when discussing the far-right Israeli government?
Presumably you would hit the report button if someone made the comparison between Nigel Farage and the Nazis? Netanyahu makes Nigel Farage look like a cuddly liberal.
At least one senior Israeli minister has described himself as a fascist, Israel is widely considered to be an apartheid state. Your attempts to stifle people expressing their opinions of a regime which is racist and very clearly commits war crimes and crimes against humanity smacks of desperation.
If Gerald Kaufman can make a direct comparison between modern Israel and nazi Germany then so can anyone else. Or do you also want to report the video which I posted of a speech made by Kaufman from the floor of the House of Commons?
Ad Hominem is where someone starts to attack the individual rather than put forward their argument. That's happened today and it's the way threads like this get shut down.
This topic is contentious and understandably so. BUT, if you insult another user you will end up being banned and this thread could be shut down. If you find yourself getting angry... STOP TYPING. Step away. Come back to it later.
Thing is Hitler did go in for genocide whereas other fascist dictators like Mussolini, Salazar or Franco were awful oppressors but not quite in the same way. Israel has always been iffy about defining its borders due to its aspirations for an expansionist 'greater Israel' since 1948. I remember discussing this in a tutorial with Michael Clark (RUSI etc, hardly a leftwinger) in 1977, it's nothing new. Perhaps we should tone down the hyperbole by referring to Israel 'mowing the lawn' (sounds quite green doesn't it).
Anyway, it’s nothing to do with lebensraum. Unless you think Israel wants to start taking over chunks f neighbouring countries.
Well I didn't think anyone would deny that Israeli zionists had expansionist policies, and not least when you consider how much Israel has expanded and is expanding, but apparently I was wrong.
Let's be clear what we are talking about. Bezalel Smotrich is a very senior Israeli cabinet minister, he is in fact the Israeli chancellor of the exchequer. He has described himself as being fascist. Don't believe me? Google it then.
Even before things kicked off on Oct 7 last year Smotrich publicly produced a map of "Greater Israel"
Jordan condemns far-right Israeli minister over "Greater Israel" map
https://www.axios.com/2023/03/20/bezalel-smotrich-jordan-greater-israel-map-palestinians
What drew a lot of attention, however, was the map on the podium from which Smotrich spoke. It showed "Greater Israel" with Jordan and the West Bank as part of Israel's borders.
And listen to this:
During his speech, he said there is no such thing as a Palestinian people.
Yup, that's right, I know it sounds totally unbelievable but Smotrich claims that there is no such thing as the Palestinian people. Which of course it means that if the Palestinians don't exist then Palestinian land cannot by definition exist. How convenient.
I believe it is totally reasonable to make comparisons with the views of the genocidal fascist Smotrich and some of the policies of the Nazis.
Smotrich is not some fringe politician, he holds one of the great offices of state in Israel, he is very much representative of the extreme far-right government of Israel.
Yes it is hard to stomach the comparison between the zionist far-right and the Nazis, in the video Gerald Kaufman doesn't appear to find the experience particularly pleasant. But not only is reasonable to do so it also vital to make it.
this thread is getting a bit Ken Livingstone
Just a quick reminder that Israel are ****s...
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/23/middleeast/israel-gaza-water-shortages-heatwave-crisis-intl
It seems the IDF (previously known as “the most moral army in the world”) have deemed the World Food Program a legitimate target.
“Despite being clearly marked and receiving multiple clearances by Israeli authorities to approach, the vehicle was directly struck by gunfire as it was moving toward an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) checkpoint,” the statement by the agency read.
Just a quick reminder that Israel are ****…
Deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure is a war crime so I expect the rule of law to apply.
Ha…..like **** it will, they’ll lie….and lie….and lie….and lie….
Deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure is a war crime so I expect the rule of law to apply.
You know that you are talking about Israel, right?
You know that you are talking about Israel, right?
You realise I was taking the piss, right?
No I hadn't.
No I hadn’t.
Really?…….this is all getting a bit meta for me
What do you want to report, that someone has made a reference to nazi Germany when discussing the far-right Israeli government?
It wasn't that, as you well know.
It was a remark that is very close to antisemitism, using words that were highlighted as such by at least three independent posts over a period of several hours
That you carried on defending its use after the first calling out is deliberate when you could have used other less tone-deaf words,
"Along with the huge expansion of illegal settlements (a war crime under the Geneva Convention) what we are witnessing is simply the territorial growth of Israel"
would have done the job quite adequately
At what point is it OK to start calling this a genocide?
Depends on what side of the fence wall you’re looking at
The objective one.
Thing is Hitler did go in for genocide whereas other fascist dictators like Mussolini, Salazar or Franco were awful oppressors but not quite in the same way.
Mussolini did conduct a genocide in Ethiopia/Eritrea and it was with the aim of eradicating/enslaving a population to replace them with Italian settlers. Obviously in terms of scale nothing like Germany though.
Slight derail in any case.
There's no way Netanyahu can have any defence against collective punishment and targeting civilian infrastructure - both war crimes in their own right.
Going into the West Bank feels to me like "let's sort this once and for all" to me - which also has a German translation that I won't use.
Israel under Netanyahu is doing despicable things that have nothing to do with 7th October any more. If they weren't nuclear armed and a client state of 'the west' the actions of the UK/US would be very different.
It was a remark that is very close to antisemitism, using words that were highlighted as such by at least three independent posts over a period of several hours
Lebensraum? I appreciate that you might not like the term, especially if you support zionism, because it has connotations with the German far-right's quest in the 1930s for a Greater Germany, but firstly I feel it is totally appropriate because as my earlier link shows the Israeli far-right has a policy of creating a Greater Israel.
And secondly because it is not even vaguely "anti-semitic". The policy of a Greater Israel, and the need for living space for Israelis, is an Israeli government policy and it has absolutely nothing to do with being Jewish. Plenty of Jews throughout the world are very strongly opposed to it.
In fact I consider your apparent belief that "Greater Israel" policy is somehow intrinsically Jewish to be anti-semitic.it reminds of a rally in support of Palestine that I went to recently where by far the best speaker was a Jewish guy, as is often the case, who in his speech pointed out there is nothing Jewish about apartheid.
And if that's not the point you are trying to make then I don't know what it is. I think we have established that if Gerald Kaufman can use parliament to make a comparison between Israeli far-right politicians and the nazis then I can do the same on a MTB forum.
Going into the West Bank feels to me like “let’s sort this once and for all” to me
Occupied West Bank does not pose any problem for the Israeli government beyond the fact that its very existence provides a basis for a Palestinian state, there is no new intifada going on in Occupied West Bank.
The Israeli government's priority is the expansion of illegal Israeli settlements in Occupied West Bank so that it becomes less viable as a Palestinian state.
The current Israeli government is totally committed to crushing the Palestinian people. From denying them their own state to denying that they even exist - they are just "Arabs".
From Mark's opening post on this thread, emphasis added by me:
Before you hit that ‘Submit’ button. read what you have typed again and question yourself as to whether or not it’s a useful action to take. Will you add to the debate or will you provoke others? If it were possible I’d have a popup appear after you have hit the Submit button that says, “Are you sure you want to post that?”. So, say those words in your head BEFORE you hit that button.
I don't know whether the equating of Israel and Nazi Germany made by some was deliberately provocative, but I feel that few people lack the self awareness not to realise that it is very provocative language.
And mainly I'm not sure it really contributes to the discussion, or is likely to change minds, rather than just entrench positions and get this thread caught up in somewhat tangential arguments.
Of course it contributes to the discussion. That is precisely why so many Jews who oppose the Israeli government equate Israel and nazi Germany.
One of the reasons that I keep banging on about Gerald Kaufman's speech in the House of Commons is because despite being short it is extremely powerful and hard-hitting.
What makes it hard-hitting is the comparison of the the behaviour of the Israeli government and the nazis. If you took that element out of Kaufman's speech it would lose his impetus.
Having said that I totally get that supporters of the Israeli government hate any comparisons made with the nazis, of course they do. They obviously also hate the government being referred to as fascist, or far-right, or that their state is an apartheid state, or that it is committing genocide, or that Netanyahu is a war criminal, etc etc
Yes I get it. And yes I understand that they want to shut down criticism, a battle which they are very clearly losing.
seems the IDF (previously known as “the most moral army in the world”) have deemed the World Food Program a legitimate target
They also assassinate donkeys pulling carts laden with flour.
They obviously also hate the government being referred to as fascist, or far-right, or that their state is an apartheid state, or that it is committing genocide, or that Netanyahu is a war criminal, etc etc
Is it a little like calling AfD voters hard of thinking. They don't like hearing the truth.
*fingers in ear* or *I'll shout you down and do it loudly to drown you out so I'm right(eous)*
It's worth everyone looking at the latest protests in Isreal.
Netanyahu is increasingly seen as making decisions for his own survival, not for the safety of Israeli citizens (for most outside, and for many inside, that's been obvious all along of course). No idea where this is heading next. Nowhere good I fear, with or without Netanyahu.
Well, there you go. They’ve found a way of sending a signal to Israel, without pulling out of arrangements with the USA & Germany. It’s only a signal, we really are a minnow when it comes to directly supplying Israel, but it’s a welcome signal.
It’s only a signal, we really are a minnow when it comes to directly supplying Israel, but it’s a welcome signal.
Yup, it won't hurt Israel in any meaningful material way, according to the Washington Post British arms exports to Israel represent 0.02 percent of Israel’s overall military imports, and I think the ban affects about 10% of that.
But the public declaration by the UK government that it considers there is a real risk of a “serious violation of international humanitarian law" by Israel will be a real blow to the 'most moral army in the world'.
And it of course further increases Israel's international isolation and pariah status.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/02/uk-suspends-arms-sales-israel/
30 out of 350 is pretty much a drop in the ocean. But what would be more interesting is to know what these 30 actually supply
Components for military aircraft including fighter aircraft, helicopters and drones apparently. I am sure that the United States will quietly provide Netanyahu with alternative sources.
Besides, I am sure that they have sufficient advanced military hardware to carry on slaughtering an essentially unarmed people.
But the public declaration by the UK government that it considers there is a real risk of a “serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will be a real blow to the ‘most moral army in the world’.
Fantasy. They don’t give the smallest damn what the UK government or population think. They will continue the genocide project unaffected.
t’s worth everyone looking at the latest protests in Isreal.
The Israeli public have had many opportunities to get rid of Netanyahu if that’s what they actually wanted to do, but he has been consistently democratically re-elected.
Fantasy
What is definitely a fantasy is your tediously repeated claims that the zionists don't care about international condemnations.
They are of course fully aware that their survival is totally dependant on international support. Which is why they push back so hard against accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity by international courts, organisations, and governments, accusing all who criticise them of anti-semitism.
The defeatist nonsense that Israel can act with total impunity which means that no one can do anything beyond moaning and complaining is a fantasy which plays extremely well into their hands.
As Netanyahu repeatedly and deliberately provokes Iran and Hezbollah into attacking Israel he does so in the full knowledge that Israeli air defences will be overwhelmed without US, UK, and French, support. It is an act of desperation. A gamble which he feels is necessary.
The zionist experiment is collapsing, the genocide which is occurring in Gaza is a symptom of that collapse and failure. The greatest crises in Israel's history is not a sign of zionism's strength, it is a sign of its weakness.
What is definitely a fantasy is your tediously repeated claims that the zionists don’t care about international condemnations
How many Palestinian lives has this worthy condemnation saved? How many mouths does an ICJ statement feed? Israel is supported 100% by the world’s superpower. A lot weaker regimes have pursued their genocide unhindered so pretending that Israel will behave differently is, well, fantasy.
The Israeli public have had many opportunities to get rid of Netanyahu if that’s what they actually wanted to do, but he has been consistently democratically re-elected.
And? The idea that Israeli society is united behind its leaders and that all Israelis share a common vision is nonsense.
The deep divisions within Israeli society are barely sustainable. Cracks are appearing all over the place and whilst Netanyahu might well be maintaining a bunker mentality* these developments are hugely damaging to the zionists.
* Yes the reference to the final days of the Third Reich was deliberate.
Israel is supported 100% by the world’s superpower.
Sorry mate but you really talk some shite if you think that the UK's Foreign Secretary publicly announcing the the UK government believes there is a risk of "serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will have no bearing whatsoever on US policy towards Israel.
United States support for Israel is a judgement call. They have decide the pros and the cons, all manner of issues effects the decisions they make, including the positions and attitudes of their closest allies.
Sorry mate but you really talk some shite if you think that the UK’s Foreign Secretary publicly announcing the the UK government believes there is a risk of “serious violation of international humanitarian law” by Israel will have no bearing whatsoever on US policy towards Israel.
i hope you’re right - we will see. In the meantime, how many deaths in Gaza today ?
Cracks are appearing all over the place and whilst Netanyahu might well be maintaining a bunker mentality* these developments are hugely damaging to the zionists.
* Yes the reference to the final days of the Third Reich was deliberate.
"Bunker mentality" is often misunderstood. It isn't a term specific to any one leader or state, but is a term used symbolically by psychologists when narcissistic leaders are in power.
The Jerusalem Post published this piece on Benjamin Netanyahu https://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/Netanyahus-narcissism-584857
"Narcissism" is often inappropriately used, but you may be correct albeit with the wrong reasoning
It's also a golfing brand https://bunker-mentality.com/
Netanyahu isn't happy with David Lammy for listening to legal advice about the potential consequences of supplying arms to a regime which you know might commit "serious violation of international humanitarian law”
Netanyahu says 'shameful' of UK to halt some arms export licences to Israel
I guess that when you violate international law on a daily basis it is only natural to expect those close to you to do the same.
I notice from the article that Netanyahu is still trying to delude the Israeli people into believing that he can defeat the Palestinian resistance.
Despite the fact that nearly a year on from the beginning of the onslaught, and with unrestricted access to the most advanced military hardware in the world, he still hasn't managed to. In fact he wants to expand the war in an attempt to cover up his complete failure.
A really interesting article about Netanyahu from an Israeli's perspective imo
As furious protesters take to the streets, Netanyahu may well have reached his political dead-end | Alon Pinkas https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/sep/03/israel-protesters-netanyahu-gaza-war?CMP=share_btn_url
An article in The Lancet estimates that nearly 200,000 Palestinians have been killed, directly or indirectly, by the Israeli war on Gaza. But yeah - self defence.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2824%2901169-3/fulltext
As furious protesters take to the streets, Netanyahu may well have reached his political dead-end | Alon Pinkas
What does he say about furious protestors storming a prison to demand the release of soldiers accused of torturing prisoners?
Try again
Bit by bit the Israeli government is losing control of the narrative. The latest development:
A Historic Moment for Us': Palestinians Take Unprecedented Seat at UN General Assembly
Clearly this is the direct result of the ongoing genocide which Netanyahu and his far-right government is overseeing in Gaza, and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians.
Apparently (report in Haaretz) the most moral army in the world are recruiting African asylum seekers to undertake dangerous missions in Gaza with the bribe of citizenship. You’ve got to wonder how much lower these people can actually sink.
Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.
Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.
Why would there be a statement from the UN? Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.
Did you read the whole article btw? These are people who currently living in Israel as asylum seekers and they are being asked if they would like to join the military, they are not being forced. Is there any particular reason why asylum seekers living in Israel should not join the military but do other jobs instead?
There are a whole lot of horrendous angles to the genocide which the IDF is currently committing in Gaza but I am not sure that their recruiting policies represent some of them.
There is plenty of things to get genuinely outraged about because they do violate international law. This for example:
But about 90% of Gaza’s 307 public school buildings and all 12 universities have been damaged or destroyed in Israeli attacks, according to the Education Cluster, a collection of aid groups led by Unicef and Save the Children.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/15/gaza-children-school-year-education-israel-war
Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.
Worth bookmarking the post where Ernie justifies Israeli actions on the basis of behaviour of colonial powers. He’s wrong, of course - Gurkhas were not recruited from the asylum system to help out with genocide - but that’s another issue.
I assume that you thought no one would read beyond the headlines because the article is behind a paywall? Or perhaps you didn't read it yourself?
The article makes clear that the example they give was an asylum seeker who is legally working in Israel and was contacted by the military and asked if he would like to join. According to the article asylum seekers (of which there are apparently 30,000 living in Israel) often like to join the IDF because they believe that it will help them to quickly integrate into Israeli society.
He initially said yes but then changed his mind at the last moment. Unsurprisingly the recruiting officer was annoyed by the last minute change of mind but nevertheless told the guy that offer would be left open for him.
To allow him to carry on working at his job and not join a military is hardly coercion, especially when you consider that military service is compulsory for almost all Israelis including women.
Maybe we should bookmark your post DrJ to remind ourselves how your heart apparently bleeds for young men who go to a genocidal apartheid regime, which is actively murdering innocent women and children, to claim asylum but want to leave the slaughtering to their hosts - presumably they don't fancy possibly getting killed themselves.
And perhaps to also remind ourselves that you will use any excuse to have a little dig at the United Nations.
Btw despite your false claims France is not currently a colonial power, nevertheless the Foreign Legion (whose recruitment from desperate men is legendary although mostly false) are frontline troops and often the very first to be sent to a combat situation. Do you believe it would be appropriate for the UN to condemn France for this?
Let's not deviate from the horrors which are happening every day in Gaza and the West Bank to launch baseless attacks on the UN.
Breaking news.
Israel has attacked Hezbollah by targeting the pagers Hezbollah use for communications, leaving a reported 1000+ injured.
The pagers suddenly exploded. Seemingly all of them simultaneously
So it appears Israel has infiltrated the supply line these pagers to those people in an operation that must have taken years to set up.
It's like something out a SIFI novel